Sex-hating weirdo Ross Douthat, like most Christian nerds, found the perfect mix of Dungeons and Dragons and Jesus Monster in C.S. Lewis’ boring Christian allegorical rip-offs of Harry Potter. So in his exciting new NYT column, Douthat naturally wastes space in the Paper of Record wondering why Jews can’t have a magical Middle Earth “Narnia” full of talking animals and pixie dust just like Jesus gave the Christians. Are Jews just bad people?
No, it’s just that they don’t have a Christian Cartoon Devil:
Part and parcel of Judaism’s resistance to explorations in the realm of faerie, he goes on, is a discomfort with the semi-dualism that’s necessary to classic fantasy — the idea of a Devil figure, in other words, who seems capable of actually conquering the mortal world (be it Narnia or Middle-Earth, Fionavar or Osten Ard) and binding it permanently in darkness. As Weingrad notes, correctly I think: “Christianity offers a far more developed tradition of evil as a supernatural, external, autonomous force than does Judaism, whose Satan (or Samael or Lilith or Ashmedai) are limited in their power and usually rather obedient to God’s wishes.” Tolkien’s Sauron makes sense in a Christian universe; he makes less sense in a Jewish one.
Yep, let’s bring it back to the motherfucking hobbits, call it a day, login to online banking and see if the paycheck came through direct deposit. Wonderful. And now to eBay, to order some more life-size Real Dolls of Frodo. [New York Times]
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That is a feature not a bug in Jewish folklore: the evil characters are human evil, not abstracted monsters devoid of human foibles. Struggling against them is a struggle against the worst part of our natures, in an attempt to better ourselves as people. which is why Jewish folklore doesn’t have the same smug indifference to human suffering you see in Christian folklore. People don’t need to change in Christian folktales, just obey the lion-Jesus creature and kill in his name.
Ross, listen, if you ever read this – I know a real nice young man, tall, great shape, ethnically mixed, beautiful singing voice. He would probably fuck your brains out just for kicks. It would help you alot, I am sure.
“Christianity offers a far more developed tradition of evil as a supernatural, external, autonomous force”
So imagining evil people as hobbits and wizards who cast spells and read minds and have supernatural powers is more developed? Than what?
South Side Dybbuk is a son of a bitch
South Side Dybbuk is a son of a bitch
South Side Dybbuk is a son of a bitch
so don’t get in his way
[re=524447]faustroll[/re]: Yes, exactly! Some how, this psychological view of “evil” as being, in varying doses, a part of human nature seems MUCH more developed than magical creatures who cast spells and shit.
Silly me, I thought Satan was my buddy. I should write the next great American-Christian-fantasy-novel.
Verklempt furry faerie is verklempt.
Still, Douchehat’s (actually not terribly ill-informed) commentary on fantasy worlds is infinitely better than what he could be writing about, like rejecting loose women at Harvard parties, and he’s still a million times the writer / thinker than Richard Cohen or Madame Noonington. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop and Douthat to go full-wingnut on us, and he disappoints. Boooring.
And exactly how does Douchehat’s version of Christianity differ from the cult of the Flying
Spaghetti Monster?
[re=524453]aaronincus[/re]: Looks like you got your plot. Just create a few funny-named characters, throw in mist, moss, and magic and some subliminal sex, and you got yourself a best-seller.
So why did the NYT give spencer pratt a column, anyway? Because of the way he spells faerie?
Use his columns for parakeet cage-lining, not a jumping off point for anything.
Probably has something to do with certain devout Christians’ outright obsession with imagining a Satan character in luxurious, exquisite, and flattering detail.
What’s the devil look like?
Suave and well dressed, kinda like Al Pacino.
What are his pastimes?
Card games and magic tricks.
Doesn’t he have magic powers?
Breathes fire and conjures up bimbos out of nothing.
So, he’s a really cool guy, right?
Yes … I mean NO! EVIL! EVUUUUL!
It’s fan-wank for the Bible, made even more hilarious by fact that actual Satanists don’t ascribe to this iconography at all.
It could be Judaism finds more adult ways to pass the time.
Damn — I kinda thought Douchehat was so deep in the closet he was looking for Narnia, but now he’s taking the metaphor a little too far. Oh, and here’s the proper NYT link:
http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/in-search-of-a-jewish-narnia/
The Devil is a chunkier Reese Witherspoon.
I don’t caere.
How a about a golem? He can be pretty mean to gentiles, and to Jews, too!
“To protect the Jewish community, the rabbi constructed the Golem out of clay from the banks of the Vltava river, and brought it to life through rituals and Hebrew incantations. As this golem grew, it became increasingly violent, killing gentiles and spreading fear. A different story tells of a golem falling in love, and when rejected, he became the violent monster as seen in most accounts. Some versions have the golem eventually turning on its creator and perhaps even attacking other Jews.” Link
Ladies and gentlemen of the world: your greatest American newspaper.
But is there room for a Nandalf Neckbeard in the Jewdom?
How can one really make an argument with a straight face that Jews have never faced an evil capable of conquering the world?
Is it too soon in the thread to call upon Godwin’s Law?
The ass also has made it clear that he doesn’t really know his Tolkien, or else he’d realize that Sauron is not a Satan figure. He was only a servant of Morgoth, who is the actual Satan-like figure, and the evil one of the Valar, or great gods; Sauron, like Gandalf, Sauruman and the Balrogs was only one of the Maiar, the lesser gods, though the most powerful.
Er, pretend I didn’t write that. Me now watch sports, drink cheap beer.
Plus, Christianity has that whole end-times apocalypse script in development too. Talk about drama! I think there’s someone politicking to play the female lead. Stay tuned for more developments!
Perhaps the Jooz can adopt Ross as their faerie.
I used to enjoy Middle Earth until creeps like this ruined it. Perhaps YOU are the real Sauron here Douthat. (Geez, please cut him off before he starts looking for Aragorn among the 2012 Republican candidates, you know it’s going to happen.)
[re=524459]Ducksworthy[/re]: People actually care about the FSM (PBUH). Douthat, not so much.
Ross, you could be writing disingenuous defenses of the corporate health care institutions, overweening pieces celebrating the teabagger movement, or earnest advice to Michael Steele and his RNC apparachiks. Instead you write about modern forms mythology and their relation to the totally, absolutely real religions of Jesus and da Jews.
Is your column a just form of escapism from the fact that everything conservative sucks nowadays?
[re=524477]JMP[/re]: George Bush to Dick’s Cheney?
1)There’s really not a lot of point in making up fantasies about evil magical beings when you’ve spent most of your existence as a people being killed by real evil beings.
2)Okay, fair point, Jews aren’t very good at making with the fantasy stuff but maybe it’s because we’re too busy winning Nobel prizes, running Hollywood/TV (which involves a lot of fantasy), being lawyers/doctors/accountants, and not wondering why we haven’t come up with a Jewish vampire story
3)Douthat can suck it
Meanwhile, as we’re wanking away comparative religion, the Joos are devilishly taking over more powerful congressional committees. Wake up folks!
Oh, and one more thing– is that really a picture Douthat or of Mac from “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia?”
Does this mean Joe Lieberman is not some sort of evil elf?
I hear Jonah Goldberg’s really into Star Trek; maybe he and Ross can help each other out.
What about Miami, huh Douchehat?
“Christianity offers a far more developed tradition of evil”
Ummm okay.
Besides, Sauruman had a big nose, didn’t he?
[re=524484]SmutBoffin[/re]: yeah, pretty much; how else to explain this pure waste of space?[re=524466]Come here a minute[/re]: win!
[re=524477]JMP[/re]: Says the guy with the Battlemech avatar!
P.S. I can vouch for the correctness of your analysis. Now I will also affect a casually-misogynist, not-at-all-bookish masculinity. HEY BABY WANNA COME TO A BBQ?…THE ONE WHERE I PUT MY MEAT ON YOUR GRILL?
[re=524486]Hooray For Anything[/re]: The idea that Jews never invented fantasy stories is wrong, anyway. Here’s a quick, partial, off-the-top-of-my-head list of would-be world conquerors/destroyers created by Jews:
Lex Luthor
Dr. Doom
Magneto
Darkseid
Galactus
Kang the Conqueror
The Joker
The Mandarin
The Red Skull
M.O.D.O.K.
“Why are there no works of modern fantasy that are profoundly Jewish in the way that, say, ‘The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe’ is Christian? Why no Jewish [C.S.] Lewises, and why no Jewish Narnias?”
Because the Jewish ethico-religious tradition seems to focus more on the subtleties and ambiguities within human nature than the laughably bombastic oversimplifications that a smug hack like CS Lewis is capable of creating?
Douthat also commits the error of defining fantasy within the Tolkien/Lewis tradition and then wondering why no Jewish fantasies fall within that mode. Well they don’t as long as that’s the only place you’re looking. It’s as myopic as when biologists assumed that photosynthesis was the basic substrate for all levels of ecosystems, thus never looking for chemosynthetic life in deep-water thermal vents. His very definition causes what he’s looking for to fall outside of the range of his search.
In recompense for not having goofy fantasy lands, Jews get halvah and knishes and matzah and challah and circumcision. Ah, never mind about that last one, I’ll just snip it out.
“Why are there no works of modern fantasy that are profoundly Jewish in the way that, say, ‘The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe’ is Christian? Why no Jewish [C.S.] Lewises, and why no Jewish Narnias?”
Because, you shmoiger, we’re too busy being doctors and lawyers to make it to your dungeons & dragons parties.
[re=524447]faustroll[/re]: Is that like in the Shangri-La’s “Give Him a Great Big Kiss”?
Well I hear he’s bad…
Mmm, he’s good bad, but he’s not evil
Anyhow, as a Jew and a fairy I have no idea what young Ross is talking about. But I think he doesn’t get laid much.
It’s pretty effin’ clear they didn’t have fantasy because fantasy, as Douthat is referring to it, was a momentary literary meander in a very sheltered corner of Europe. Tolkein, Lewis, Lord Dunsany led pretty posh and unstressed lives. Go find some Elie Wiesel and compare.
The whole thing is a monument to Douthat’s ignorance and reductionism anyway. There’s PLENTY of eastern european fairy tales that were part of Jewish tradition. Since he’s likely monolingual and has no ethnic friends, he has noone to ask about Baba Yaga. Tolkien’s work is not itself a fairy tale, but literature derived from other literature (Norse Elder Edda, for instance) which was itself derived from folk and fairy tales.
And it’s not even Douthat’s original argument. He’s quoting verbatim long passages from Michael Weingrad in Jewish Review of Books, and in blog posts about that article. I have to give him a D+ for handing in something on time, but zilch when it comes for expressing any kind of a novel point of view or even researching and defending an argument.
There were allegorical Jews, actually, in C.S. Lewis’ work. In The Last Battle, which chronicles the last days of Narnia as it is reclaimed by the Emperor-Over-The-Sea, there are dwarves who get stuck in a dark stable, and who refuse to believe that Aslan the Lion has returned. So, while everybody else literally gets to scamper off to heaven, they have to sit around in a dark, shitty stable in the donkey turds.
I am not making this up.
I would be hard pressed to think of a more pedantic, more anti-Semitic allegory, but there it is. They have a conjugate for Muslims too, but that story, children, is for another day.
On second thought, Ross is saying that the Jewish fantasy isn’t compatible with classical fantasy, unlike the Christian fantasy. Can’t we all just get along?
Let’s not forgot Jews in Space
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_jLnrUXJNM
And Douthat doesn’t get laid enough.
[re=524479]TubeCity[/re]: Actually the Jews had the whole end-times thing down before Christianity even showed up. The whole point of the messiah (or at least one of them) during the time that Jesus allegedly lived was to liberate the Jews from the Roman yoke.
[re=524486]Hooray For Anything[/re]: My first thought also. Between the Spanish Inquisition and the Holocaust, inventing a Devil figure probably isn’t necessary.
[re=524498]SayItWithWookies[/re]: Good point. But all these Mosaic religions are founded on a dualism between man and nature that makes it almost impossible for westerners to, for example, identify behaviors related to self consciousness in other species (and until recently, other genders).
[re=524515]snideinplainsight[/re]: And, reading between the lines of that excerpt, it ain’t gonna happen anytime soon.
Not snarky here, but I’d like to raise an obvious objection to Douthat’s viewpoint. I’m quite certain that the works of Tolkien are just as popular among Jewish readers as any others.
So he’s full of shit.
A great fantasy novel written by Jews and treasured by almost every Russian school kid: “Monday Begins on Saturday,” by the Strugatsky brothers.
Douthat’s NYT column makes us yearn for the days of Billy Kristol. Now, that was real writing.
His face is so…punchable.
Forget Narnia, he and Pat Robertson should get together and discuss how important the Christian devil construct was for Haiti.
[re=524511]Tommmcatt[/re]: That’s also the one where Susan doesn’t get to go to Narnia (which we discover is heaven) because she wears makeup and likes boys. That fucked up my whole summer when I was 5.
[re=524497]JMP[/re]: Excellent point. It’s not like the fact Jews wrote and created most of the classic comic stories (like, um, Superman) or it’s not like there was a very famous novel about the subject. And if you’re talking villains, don’t forget Newman- that mail carrier was a mean man.
[re=524513]Lucidamente[/re]: “Jews in Space” nearly killed me when I first saw it as a kid because I was laughing so hard.
Let’s see C. S. Lewis wrote Narnia throughout the early fifties. Whereas the Jews had experienced something of a talent drain in the decade-and-a-half or so leading up to that. So it seems he had less competition than he otherwise might have bargained for…
Also if Douchehat is interested in a Jew’s vision of Christian demon tales, he might want to seek out The Crucible, which was written not too long after C. S. Lewis’ inspiration struck.
Before he wrote this article did Ross bother to test his hypothesis by, I don’t know, investigating Jewish folklore and mystical traditions. It’s not like Jews don’t make a habit of writing everything down so there is no shortage of material to look at. If he had done such research Ross might have hear of the heroic exploits of the Baal Shem Tov or, as a previous commenter points out, the Golem. Somebody call Zizek and sic him on this boneheaded pseudo-intellectual. It’s the same lame, facile gesture over and over again with these asshats: “my _________ is so great and it’s so much a part of my people’s greatness. Why don’t other people have ________ too? What’s wrong with them?”
The Jews have no need for a ‘devil’ in the Christian sense. Given how the Jews have been treated throughout history, they’ve shown that humans (particularly Christians) are more than up to the task.
My favorite Jewish fantasy writer was Primo Levi. Elves hiding out in the woods and stealing train cars full of potatoes at night from the Nazis. Awesome imagination! Whatever happened to that guy?
This is Sally-Quinnesque maundering of the first water. Is he out of column ideas already? No wonder the journos have that saying about how a column is like a nymphmaniac in that everybody wants one until they get one.
Another essential rule of journalism is: Always wear a hat, preferably with a card saying “Press” tucked into the ribbon. Look at Drudge!
[re=524523]gurukalehuru[/re]: Jesus Christ! Thank you for that well deserved slap in the head. All other criticisms of Douchehat’s thinking aside, your point cuts right to the quick.
Whenever someone gets to praising C.S. Lewis, I point them to this nice alternative view by Philip Pullman:
http://www.surefish.co.uk/culture/features/pullman_interview.htm
I put on my tallit and wizard hat…
[re=524511]Tommmcatt[/re]: Yes, but in The Last Battle, where the world is ending, a suspiciously Muslim-like guy is saved. He doesn’t believe in Aslan, but since he’s such a kind and good person, he’s saved.
“But the genre itself will remain irreducably Christian, and a truly Judaic fantasy would have to belong to, or invent, a different genre altogether.”
You mean like Pinch Sulzberger hiring Ross Douthat?
And I always went with “irreducibly,” or is that the Jewish spelling?
Semi-dualism? What’s that quarterism?
[re=524477]JMP[/re]: I sympathize with your embarrassment. I have that same earnest adolescent geek in me too. But you analysis is insightful and could go further. Tolkien’s mythology bears a much stronger resemblance to the Norse Sagas than it does to the Bible. And we could go on.
But, hey, how about that Brandon Marshall? Somebody better snatch him up, huh?
Douthat’s Israel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB8VMNymEPA
Ahem. I’ve READ the Constitution, and I don’t remember seeing anything in there about a right to Jewish fantasy/sci-fi devils.
Libtards, feh.
Shorter Douchebag: Fuck the Jews for blaming people for good and evil behavior instead of an outside force.
Douchehat is arguing for his comfortable, micro-cultural, fairy-tale dualism while hundreds of millions of Buddhists and Taoists are busy working to transcend it. He is so incredibly stupid on so many different fronts that I feel dumb just for reacting to his idiocy. I can’t believe he writes for the NYT. What’s next? Sarah Palin’s articles in the Scientific American?
Having secured a small part in a local amateur production of “Damn Yankees,” I’ve had the privilege of meeting The Devil.
If you’re interested, he’s the guy on the left, gold lamè dressing gown, talking to his galpal Lola. First impressions? He’s very personable, has a good singing voice (more of belter than a crooner) and has, no surprise, a devilish glint in his eye.
Also a bit chunkier than you’d expect for Satan, and generally quite a bit jollier, in his unguraded moments.
[re=524454]queeraselvis v 2.0[/re]: Perfect.
Conservative (in politics, not sect) Jews already have their own Narnia, it’s called Narnia. What really separates these dolts from Jews for Jesus, anyway?
[re=524534]Hooray For Anything[/re]: Newman had the Son of Sam’s old mail route. A lot of dogs on that route…
[re=524553]timmy_the_tooth[/re]: My thoughts exactly. Not to mention that Mr Hirsute SmartyPants misses the fact that ‘Dualism’ refers to the duality between the conscience and the physical body.
Plus, I was trying to listen to the Narnia books on CD with my daughter, ’cause she was a big Harry Potter fan and I thought she might like it, but Jesus fuck are the Narnia books boring. I mean, the first one is OK, but after that it becomes a tedious mix of sprinkling in bit of the Medieval lore Lewis taught and trying to shornhorn an increasingly awkward fantasy world in to the straight-jacket of Christian eschatology.
And Voldemort would so kick the White Witches ass.
[re=524475]D Wreck[/re]: Jesus fuck, you really gonna make me say it? You think that face is straight? Are you new?
I don’t really get literary criticism, but I do find intelligent discourse incredibly arousing, so now after reading all of the comments, I am going to ladyfap here at my desk. Which is the first time Douthat has inspired such things, I am sure.
PS: How is his name pronounced? I think “doubt that,” but since it appears to have some French or something in it, it’s actually said “Smith” or something.
Can I point out that Tolkien released the Hobbit in ’37 and LOTR in ’55, and between those years Jews had other things on their mind than writing fantasy literature when it was in vogue? Thanks!
So wait, did the Jews kill Aslan or Gandalf?
[re=524454]queeraselvis v 2.0[/re]: You win this thread, sir.
[re=524581]SnarkNotFark[/re]: crooow?
I get the feeling he uses semi-dualism like a moron uses irregardless; in a non-ironic attempt to sound intelligent.
“Why is there no Jewish Narnia?”
Next week:
“Why are there no Mormon auto manufactures?
Or
Why is there no Catholic toilet paper?
Or
Why are there no Muslim Drive In movie theatres?
Hey folks anyone can do it! It’s fun!
Oh, so Jews can’t write fantasy? Yeah, I guess Peter Beagle, Harlan Ellison, and Neil Gaiman are chopped liver. Oh wait, they don’t write bloated allegories for a fourth grade reading level so they fall outside of Ross’ radar.
The Last Unicorn owns your ass, Douthat.
Portnoy’s Complaint
[re=524496]SmutBoffin[/re]: It’s not Battletech; it’s from Transformers, which is so much less geeky.
[re=524554]Ruhe[/re]: Yeah; while Lewis’ work is explicitly Christian allegory, particularly in the final two books (which have some execrable morals because of it, particularly in the treatment of women), Tolkien’s work has very little relation to Christianity. Middle Earth has a polytheistic, pagan mythology; and even then, the good gods have largely ran off and left the world to itself.
Man, spring training will be awesome! I can’t wait to see me some meaningless exhibition baseball games.
You know how I know you’re a faerie?
You feel discomfort with the semi-dualism of classical fantasy.
[re=524586]AnglRdr[/re]: It is pronounced Douchehat. From the French for “Fat-Faced Closet Case”.
Ah, yes. If only Judaism had the wherewithal to steal the concept of duality (with a good AND evil god) from Zoroastrianism, so as to give an easy answer to the “if God is so great how come I have scabies” questions which plagued the ancient world.
Lest we forget:
Mr. Pibb and Red Wine = crazy Jew-licious!
Have you ever wondered why Jews don’t have a tradition of romanticizing stories of English knighthood? Yeah, me neither.
[re=524613]lightninglouie[/re]: “Neil Gaiman”
Er, Scientology is not Judaism, no matter what Beck says.
Tolkien was in the British Army during World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien#World_War_I) so I don’t think he always had the cushy life of the intellectual. Recurrent trench fever doesn’t sound like what I ask for from the cart as it went by.
[re=524450]honkyman[/re]: yeeeeah biiiotch!!!!
dybbuk innna house!!
There is no “Jewish Narnia” because Jewish fairy tale heroes are usually scholars and virtuous men, not meatbags with swords. They tend to be aided in their journeys of discovery by tzaddikim and rabbis, who are not entirely unlike traditional Western magicians, but their antagonists tend to be stupid/evil humans of flesh and blood, not some Satanic evil condensed into a witch or a dragon or an electromagnetic vagina with an eye in the middle. (I’m looking at you, movie!Sauron.)
[re=524612]Monsieur Grumpe[/re]: Why are there no Hindu bacon cheeseburgers?
To think of how those people suffer without this great contribution to model culture.
FRODO LIVES!!!
oh wait, what?
The Narnia Chronicles are racist, fascist, sexist and all-round bad for kids. Teh jooz just don’t roll that way
Kabbalah? Just askin’
No works of modern fantasy that are profoundly Jewish? Hasn’t he read Commentary?
On the next Douthat, “Why don’t any Jews go into comedy?”
[re=524632]Franklin Pierce & Pierce[/re]: Actually, in the book of Job (probably one of the Bible’s earliest books), we meet Satan in, certainly, a Trickster role, as he tests Job’s faith … with his buddy/relative, God’s, enthusiastic permission. (In this story, God reminds me of a middle-school girl who enlists a friend to try to trick her boyfriend into kissing someone else, just to test his loyalty.)
Maybe Satan isn’t full-on Manichaean Opposition in this story, but he’s certainly The Guy Who Does God’s Dirty Work.
(BTW, God’s answer to Job, who asks why he is suffering thus, as he remains faithful through attacks of boils, deaths of his entire family, etc. etc., is something along the lines of, “Did *you* make the earth? Did *you* make the wind and the sea? I didn’t fucking think so! Now STFU.” Man, God is a real dick in the OT.)
A few of the prophets of Israel talk smack on Satan, too, albeit briefly.
So although Modern Judaism doesn’t seem much wedded to lore about some Powerful Prince of Darkness gearing up for a Last Battle, the original works certainly allude to Satan as a troublemaker.
Not enough evil, magical Jewish fantasy figures? Surely Ross has heard of Madge, the former Mrs. Ritchie.
[re=524751]iolanthe[/re]:
It is interesting to note that the word Satan at the time was often used for a type of spirit, not a specific spirit. The word itself in Hebrew meant “adversary” or “one who plots against another”.
“In biblical sources the Hebrew term the satan describes an adversarial role. It is not the name of a particular character. Although Hebrew storytellers as early as the sixth century B.C.E. occasionally introduced a supernatural character whom they called the satan, what they meant was any one of the angels sent by God for the specific purpose of blocking or obstructing human activity.” [Elaine Pagels, "The Origin of Satan," 1995]
Here is the Online Etymology Dictionary entry I am referencing.
Which doesn’t really speak to them having a Manichean worldview at all, really.
Oh, and POOOOOOP. This will keep the banhammer away, I think, for that this has been a somewhat off-topic and non-humorous post.
[re=524748]thehelveticascenario[/re]:
And what about basketball? Where are all the basketball jews?
[re=524678]ladymacbeth[/re]: Frodo IS alive. Harry Frodoberg, however, isn’t. Or is not fighting evil per se but fighting plaque and cavities as a dentist in West Chester NY.
[re=524631]MarSF[/re]: Ahhh, that makes sense on two levels!
When I read his name, it sounds like Ross Douche-hat.
I wonder if he did this on GM’s Day on purpose. http://www.examiner.com/x-6911-RPG-Examiner~y2010m3d4-March-4-is-GMs-Day
One of my favorite of Neil Gaiman’s (Polish Jewish descent)stories, is The Problem of Susan, in which Gaiman challenges Lewis’s misogyny by writing about Susan’s life as an adult. Highly recommended.
Christianity offers a far more developed tradition of evil as a supernatural, external, autonomous force than does Judaism, whose Satan (or Samael or Lilith or Ashmedai) are limited in their power and usually rather obedient to God’s wishes.”
Dude obviously never read Lovecraft. Now THAT’s a developed tradition of evil, one you can really sink your teeth into, in the few minutes you have left before your the shattered remnants of your mind drive you into a gibbering paroxysm of spasmodic terror.
Cthulhu fhtagn!
So Christianity’s totally made up, completely not-real mythical evil figure is more developed and advanced than Judaism’s totally made up, completely not-real mythical evil figure?
I can see why this guy is such a big deal.
Some how, I think Douthat hasn’t read widely in Jewish literature. Check out Stefan Heym’s _The Wandering Jew_ for a very interesting fantasy novel. Wonketteers will love Herr Leuchtentrager!
[re=524459]Ducksworthy[/re]: Because the cult of the flying spaghetti monster requires adherents to not be dicks. Christianity apparently has no such limitation.
[re=524840]brown_recluse[/re]: It’s one of the best short stories ever.
[re=524523]gurukalehuru[/re]: There’s definitely a translation of Lord of the Rings into Modern Hebrew. Elves are Children of Lilith!
[re=524544]Hemp Dogbane[/re]: Suicide, unfortunately. Writing about his experiences didn’t make him feel better, the way he’d hoped.
Does Douthat read any language but English? That would cut him off from most of Jewish literature.
Is there some requirement, that to be a columnist or pundit in the US media, you must be as ignorant, narrow-minded and lacking in experience as possible?
zhubajie: re: “Suicide, unfortunately. Writing about his experiences didn’t make him feel better, the way he’d hoped.”
This will also be true for W and Sarah. Not feeling better, that is. As for whether to hurl oneself down a stairwell, it’s a personal decision.
[re=524516]SayItWithWookies[/re]: But the Jewish messiah doesn’t have a bloody world-ending war with Satan in which all the Jews die, so it’s not as cinematic and that’s Douchat’s whole point. Anyway, the messiah turned out to be a Brooklyn rabbi.
Leave it to Douchehat to come up with the argument that the Jews are limited in their creativity, unlike the Christians. What a rousing start to the day to read his ennobling column!
Lets be clear…Jews started the entire Fantasy business about 10k years ago, inventing YHWH, and getting the whole ball rolling. The entire imagined God, Angles what have you, is all FICTION. Out side of the Law part,and partial history, not one word of it has any truth at all, except what was made up as moral stories…Douchehat, indeed.
[re=525014]Caitifty[/re]: FSM, save me with your noodly apendage.
[re=524554]Ruhe[/re]: I would say that it is a 50/50 split, with a pretty clear nod to both Norse, and Christian Myth. That being said, Norse had some cross over with the Christian Myths, which is how many of them were converted in the first place…that Hammer that looks like a cross and the cross that looks like a hammer doing wonders.
[re=524807]Tommmcatt[/re]: Thanks. That was actually interesting. I know that Satan/Shaitan translates as “Accuser”, so that makes sense. Wasn’t aware that it was a class of spirits.
Oh. Yeah. To avoid the banhammer: Blingee!! Cocktober!! FTW!! Drinking game!
(Am I safe yet?)
We gave you psychoanalysis, the theory of relativity and the atomic bomb. Isn’t that enough, douchebag? You need a story about Rebbe Shmuel talking to a faun? As my zaide would’ve said, geh kak if afen yam.
[re=524465]SayItWithWookies[/re]: It’s not a closet, it’s a wardrobe.
[re=524552]Lucidamente[/re]: I remember reading something, decades ago, called _The Tsaddik of the Seven Wonders_, published as a typical fantasy paperback. Isidore Haiblum (?) was the author, I think. Does Douthat really know that much about fantasy/Sciece Fiction books? Does he know anything?
[re=524520]Ducksworthy[/re]: Well, if you want non-Mosaic fantasy, look at Tsui Hark’s movies, like A Chinese Ghost Story or Madame Green Snake, among many others. Hong Kong Sword and Sorcery movies can’t be beat!
[re=524479]TubeCity[/re]: All taken from Jewish sources, like the Book of Enoch or the Book of Daniel.
[re=524484]SmutBoffin[/re]: YES!
[re=524705]lawrenceofthedesert[/re]: Probably not! Christianity Today, maybe.
[re=524581]SnarkNotFark[/re]: Lewis’ best fiction works are _Out of the Silent Planet_, _Screwtape Letters_ and perhaps _Until We Have Faces_. None of them are children’s books, though His scholarly books are pretty good, but, again, _The Discarded Image_ or his volume of _The Oxford History of English Literature_ are not for children. His essays are very readable, but, adult.
Look for the occult thrillers by his pal, Charles Williams! Tolkien couldn’t stand him, called him a witchdoctor (probably correctly) but Lewis really got into them.
Zhu Bajie
Douthat is some kind of professional Catholic, right? Lewis was a Belfast Protestant, and despised Catholics. In his teen years, he belonged to a street gang which attacked random Catholics!
[re=524516]SayItWithWookies[/re]: I view Christianity as neoplatonised Jewish messianic apocalypticism from the 1st CE. One of many such sects, pagan, Roman, as well as Jewish, that sprang up in the Mediterranean – Palestinian world.
Damn, what an idiot. Fairy tales = pre-Christian Pagan superstition. Saying that Christianity is responsible for Fairy tales is like saying the American colonists are responsible for arrow-heads. As to the great evil in fantasy writing, has this man never heard of Ragnarok and the Giants? Someone should tell him that such stories were part-and-parcel of Northern Europe, and that they existed long before Christianity ever came to those cold shores.
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