Let's bump that to 40% and get a lot more REALLY nice things. Free in-state college tuition, fix a bunch of crumbling bridges and roads and railroad tracks, state money for underfunded public schools, housing for the homeless, income support for minimum-wage workers....
It could probably go up only 5% more to get all those things accomplished, which would greatly affect the lives of all citizens of the Commonwealth. Maybe a gradual increase to 40%?
I asked my dad once how he felt about paying property taxes to fund schools when he no longer had any kids in school. He said he was happy to pay taxes so that young people had a chance to go to school and get good jobs and have a better future-for the enlightened self interest reason that he didn't want to live in a society where kids only hope at breaking out of poverty was crime.
When we move from a hereditary oligarchy towards a meritocracy, everyone benefits. Social mobility is the truest expression of capitalism.
In the lower end of that scale, that tax is $40000. That might not make a millionaire twinge, but it sure might encourage him to practice tax avoidance ( if not outright tax evasion ) to keep his taxable income just below that threshold.
I applaud the whole thing, but I see it also providing a boon to tax specialists. As for the Biden bill, taxing "unrealized" capital gains may run afoul of constitutional issues - I believe there's a case before the SCOTUS on just this issue ( Moore v. United States )
I think that's one reason why the Tax Policy Center says that a ruling against this tax could mean big trouble for the entire tax system ( altho' I'm not entirely sure why real income taxes would be affected ). The piece explains how different court rulings over the years have changed how the 16th Amendment is interpreted - and I kinda fail to see how these "transition taxes" could run afoul of how the 16th is now interpreted to the extent to declare unconstitutional
As for amending the 16th, I think, in the current composition of Congress and the various state legislatures, that that's a non-starter
Okay, I get it. Certainly, tax avoidance ( and/or tax evasion ) happens at all levels of income - so just talking about millionaires doing so is not valid.
However, I will say I didn't mean that comments as an argument, but just an observation ( at least it seems so in my memory today )
The tax doesn't apply to the first $1,000,000. That lessens the incentive to manipulate timing (beyond the usual rewards of paying tax in the future rather than now).
So, they're talking about a "marginal" tax rate of 4% (over regular income tax )? I didn't see that in the piece. I guess I should have realized that, since so many people talk about regular income tax rates without mentioning they're marginal tax rates
No, it's a surtax; the regular tax rate is higher than 4%. If you want to look at it as a marginal rate, which is how the taxpayer would experience it, after all, the marginal tax rate on income over $1,000,000 is regular rate + 4%.
It'd be useful to know what "millionaires" means in this context. A whole lot of frugal middle-class families scrape together pension funds worth a million dollars. Is this an income tax on anyone making over a million in one year? That would be a rather different matter.
That's enormously different from "Omigod the 401(k) just broke $1,000,000 after 30 years of hard work!". It would be good if these articles were more detailed about what they mean by that term. The millionaires of the Gilded Age are basically the billionaires of today.
I honestly had the same thought reading the first part of the article & the title.
Outside of our mortgage, I think that my husband & I MIGHT be "millionaires", but almost solely because we have maxed out our 401(k)s since we started working, even if it meant going really lean on other things.
And we live in MA, & even with our decidedly NOT CLOSE to $1M/yr incomes, we are okay with paying more in taxes for the better good of everyone.
Yeah, your situation is just what I had in mind. It's possible to accumulate a million dollars without being an Elon Musk, if you make a halfway-decent salary and then save a big, big chunk of it for decades.
I had a rich client that I was friendly with give me the "I don't want to pay for their lunches!" bit, I bet he got it from his arch conservative dad, but I reminded him that hungry kids aren't going to do well in school, so kicking in a few dimes a day to help make sure all the kids do better will eventually prove to be a cost saving measure when you price in all of the costs to society of young adults not prepared for an independent life. He wouldn't budge, but his wife shot me a look like "Right??"
You will understand that America's Wrong Wing Party is radically pro-crime. Instances:
* Opposition to abortion. "Sure, let's compel millions of women to carry pregnancies that they will never be able to manage, producing children that will be badly raised." The book Freakonomics pointed out that the nation-wide decrease in crime starting in the early 1990s was caused in part by access to abortion after Roe v. Wade. No, Rudy Giuliani being a vindictive asshole didn't really help.
* They are addicted to the crime industrial complex: Desperate poverty, loan sharking abusive cops, drug cartels, for-profit jails. It's all part of the business.
* Organized crime. Outfits like the Gambino, Columbo and Trump crime familes.
"You kids won't have nice things if we have anything to say about it!"
No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen:
Republicans announced their plans to fight back against Democratic efforts to provide free school lunches to children. They released a federal plan calling to end a program that lets states ensure students have a meal at school.
A grand jury in Atlanta began hearing evidence on Monday in a Georgia prosecutor’s investigation of Donald J. Trump and some of his former advisers, whose efforts to overturn the state’s 2020 election could result in a criminal indictment — the fourth against the former president.
I don't make b/millionaire money, I could afford school lunch, but I'm happy to feed people, and universal lunches and breakfast at school were so convenient. Tax me.
I'm one of those democratic-socialist weirdos who takes pride in contributing toward such expenditures. Such programs perpetuate a domino principal of benefits to the entire community and should be viewed as an erstwhile investment by all Americans.
Yeah. The super rich are super rich because they use public education, sewage, garbage, roads, the EPA, police, fire departments, etc, but don't want to pay.
When I was working at a local telco (not a baby bell) the working class folk just came in and paid their bills. The rich motherfuckers wanted discounts for being rich.
[cleans and bandages new, profusely bleeding wounds]
That damned cat once again ambushed me and laid my arm wide open while I was tidying the upstairs bathroom. Since I refuse to declaw the feline menace I believe I'm going to have to invest in a set of gauntlets for my own protection.
Some vets and groomers will clip nails for a small charge. My cats won't consent to a trim from me but somehow they let the vet tech do it without a fuss.
Absolutely no offense intended at all, but perhaps that's because the vet tech knows what he/she is doing and the cats are somehow aware that you don't.
See if you have a mobile pet place that does it. We've got a couple of pet daycare/shampoo/hair cut places that have a van and will come to your home for such things.
Let's bump that to 40% and get a lot more REALLY nice things. Free in-state college tuition, fix a bunch of crumbling bridges and roads and railroad tracks, state money for underfunded public schools, housing for the homeless, income support for minimum-wage workers....
It could probably go up only 5% more to get all those things accomplished, which would greatly affect the lives of all citizens of the Commonwealth. Maybe a gradual increase to 40%?
if it was 40% then maybe the motherfuckers might find buying $enators and A$$ociate Ju$tices a little less affordable.
Well, I definitely can't argue THAT point!
I love nice things, and this is very nice.
I asked my dad once how he felt about paying property taxes to fund schools when he no longer had any kids in school. He said he was happy to pay taxes so that young people had a chance to go to school and get good jobs and have a better future-for the enlightened self interest reason that he didn't want to live in a society where kids only hope at breaking out of poverty was crime.
When we move from a hereditary oligarchy towards a meritocracy, everyone benefits. Social mobility is the truest expression of capitalism.
"...a four percent tax on millionaires...:
In the lower end of that scale, that tax is $40000. That might not make a millionaire twinge, but it sure might encourage him to practice tax avoidance ( if not outright tax evasion ) to keep his taxable income just below that threshold.
I applaud the whole thing, but I see it also providing a boon to tax specialists. As for the Biden bill, taxing "unrealized" capital gains may run afoul of constitutional issues - I believe there's a case before the SCOTUS on just this issue ( Moore v. United States )
Link: https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/prospects-moore-damage-our-tax-code
I assume they ALL currently practice some forms of avoidances or outright evasion regardless of their tax rates.
That argument applies to literally all taxes, so it isn't a valid reason to not tax the uber-wealthy.
And if that causes constitutional issues, then the contitution needs to be amended.
I think that's one reason why the Tax Policy Center says that a ruling against this tax could mean big trouble for the entire tax system ( altho' I'm not entirely sure why real income taxes would be affected ). The piece explains how different court rulings over the years have changed how the 16th Amendment is interpreted - and I kinda fail to see how these "transition taxes" could run afoul of how the 16th is now interpreted to the extent to declare unconstitutional
As for amending the 16th, I think, in the current composition of Congress and the various state legislatures, that that's a non-starter
Ah no, I meant " it sure might encourage him to practice tax avoidance" is not a valid argument against taxing a specific group.
Okay, I get it. Certainly, tax avoidance ( and/or tax evasion ) happens at all levels of income - so just talking about millionaires doing so is not valid.
However, I will say I didn't mean that comments as an argument, but just an observation ( at least it seems so in my memory today )
The tax doesn't apply to the first $1,000,000. That lessens the incentive to manipulate timing (beyond the usual rewards of paying tax in the future rather than now).
So, they're talking about a "marginal" tax rate of 4% (over regular income tax )? I didn't see that in the piece. I guess I should have realized that, since so many people talk about regular income tax rates without mentioning they're marginal tax rates
No, it's a surtax; the regular tax rate is higher than 4%. If you want to look at it as a marginal rate, which is how the taxpayer would experience it, after all, the marginal tax rate on income over $1,000,000 is regular rate + 4%.
It'd be useful to know what "millionaires" means in this context. A whole lot of frugal middle-class families scrape together pension funds worth a million dollars. Is this an income tax on anyone making over a million in one year? That would be a rather different matter.
The pension fund is wealth, not income. Unless maybe if you let it pay out all at once but that would be dumb.
Yes, it's a tax on income in excess of $1,000,000 in a single tax year.
That's enormously different from "Omigod the 401(k) just broke $1,000,000 after 30 years of hard work!". It would be good if these articles were more detailed about what they mean by that term. The millionaires of the Gilded Age are basically the billionaires of today.
I honestly had the same thought reading the first part of the article & the title.
Outside of our mortgage, I think that my husband & I MIGHT be "millionaires", but almost solely because we have maxed out our 401(k)s since we started working, even if it meant going really lean on other things.
And we live in MA, & even with our decidedly NOT CLOSE to $1M/yr incomes, we are okay with paying more in taxes for the better good of everyone.
Yeah, your situation is just what I had in mind. It's possible to accumulate a million dollars without being an Elon Musk, if you make a halfway-decent salary and then save a big, big chunk of it for decades.
I had a rich client that I was friendly with give me the "I don't want to pay for their lunches!" bit, I bet he got it from his arch conservative dad, but I reminded him that hungry kids aren't going to do well in school, so kicking in a few dimes a day to help make sure all the kids do better will eventually prove to be a cost saving measure when you price in all of the costs to society of young adults not prepared for an independent life. He wouldn't budge, but his wife shot me a look like "Right??"
You will understand that America's Wrong Wing Party is radically pro-crime. Instances:
* Opposition to abortion. "Sure, let's compel millions of women to carry pregnancies that they will never be able to manage, producing children that will be badly raised." The book Freakonomics pointed out that the nation-wide decrease in crime starting in the early 1990s was caused in part by access to abortion after Roe v. Wade. No, Rudy Giuliani being a vindictive asshole didn't really help.
* They are addicted to the crime industrial complex: Desperate poverty, loan sharking abusive cops, drug cartels, for-profit jails. It's all part of the business.
* Organized crime. Outfits like the Gambino, Columbo and Trump crime familes.
"You kids won't have nice things if we have anything to say about it!"
No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen:
Republicans announced their plans to fight back against Democratic efforts to provide free school lunches to children. They released a federal plan calling to end a program that lets states ensure students have a meal at school.
https://newrepublic.com/post/173668/republicans-declare-banning-universal-free-school-meals-2024-priority
>> people making over a million a year are not going to feel much of a twinge from the missing four >> percent
But they'll bitch and whine like they're getting their hands cut off with a saw blade made of filth and used drug syringes.
Just remind them that "getting their hands cut off with a saw blade made of filth and used drug syringes." is plan B, in case they reject plan A.
Ga apparently accidentally released charges. Full text available here https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2023/aug/14/donald-trump-indictment-latest-updates-georgia-election-charges-fulton-county
This might be a direct link to the document
https://twitter.com/jackqueen_/status/1691135829941407745
Surely there are some news stories detailing how Massachusetts rich people are moving to Florida and Texas, aren't there?
OT:
𝗝𝘂𝗱𝗴𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝗳𝘂𝘀𝗲𝘀 𝗧𝗿𝘂𝗺𝗽 𝗿𝗲𝗾𝘂𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗵𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝗰𝘂𝘀𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝗺𝘀𝗲𝗹𝗳 𝗳𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝗠𝗮𝗻𝗵𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗮𝗻 𝗳𝗿𝗮𝘂𝗱 𝗰𝗮𝘀𝗲
https://www.rawstory.com/trumps-fraud-trial/
If Clarence didn’t recuse in the J6 emails disclosure case(8 to 1 decision, Clarence being the 1). Then this Judge can refuse to recuse. Also,
Ginni, you’ve got some ‘plaining to do!
'Bout time some American judges started saying "fuck u," as the law allows. Unlike Republican judges, who do it when their owner$ tell them to....
"sorry, too busy to appear in my own criminal case"
"Got an early tee-time, then have grifting to do..."
Eat the rich! Just eat them, or take little nibbles. That works just fine as well.
It's a high fat diet!
IT'S HAPPENING!!!!
A grand jury in Atlanta began hearing evidence on Monday in a Georgia prosecutor’s investigation of Donald J. Trump and some of his former advisers, whose efforts to overturn the state’s 2020 election could result in a criminal indictment — the fourth against the former president.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/08/14/us/trump-indictment-georgia-election/here-are-the-latest-developments-in-the-investigation?smid=url-share
Strap in, Drumpfenfuehrer.
Ooh, ooh! I thought they didn't meet until tomorrow!
It's been a while, I need more indictments.
MSNBC said a little while ago that they were in the building today and that there's at least one witness tomorrow.
Tick tock, Donnie. Time to fuel up the plane.
Wonder if he has any lawyers with a GA bar card?
I'm sure there's some subway ad "personal injury" attorneys to take his case. Cash only. Up front.
Lionel Hutz' business card; "Works on contingency! No money down!"
Hutz: "They got this all screwed up!" Takes marking pen, changes it to:
"Works on continency? No, money down!!"
Punctuation is important, kids!
"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization."
~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
I don't make b/millionaire money, I could afford school lunch, but I'm happy to feed people, and universal lunches and breakfast at school were so convenient. Tax me.
I live below sea level. I LIKE paying taxes because I like not drowning.
I'm one of those democratic-socialist weirdos who takes pride in contributing toward such expenditures. Such programs perpetuate a domino principal of benefits to the entire community and should be viewed as an erstwhile investment by all Americans.
Yes, feed the kids,
at least until we as a country, improve our literacy rate to that of Venezuela.
You are a tax and spend liberal like me. Versus borrow and spend conservatives.
You mean borrow and waste conservative!
Yeah. The super rich are super rich because they use public education, sewage, garbage, roads, the EPA, police, fire departments, etc, but don't want to pay.
When I was working at a local telco (not a baby bell) the working class folk just came in and paid their bills. The rich motherfuckers wanted discounts for being rich.
My best legal clients are Mexican immigrants. They mostly pay cash on time, and actually follow our advice.
[cleans and bandages new, profusely bleeding wounds]
That damned cat once again ambushed me and laid my arm wide open while I was tidying the upstairs bathroom. Since I refuse to declaw the feline menace I believe I'm going to have to invest in a set of gauntlets for my own protection.
Maybe shut Ripper out of any room where you will be near to the floor while you are in there?
Yeah we can't declaw our cat either. He's a cat fer chrissakes!
Declawing should be outlawed.
I think it is here in California.
Some vets and groomers will clip nails for a small charge. My cats won't consent to a trim from me but somehow they let the vet tech do it without a fuss.
Absolutely no offense intended at all, but perhaps that's because the vet tech knows what he/she is doing and the cats are somehow aware that you don't.
Our dog hated the nail clipper but seemed okay with the grinder tool.
I've pestered paul about doing this but haven't been able to convince him that it's worth the time, effort, and nominal charge to actually make it so.
See if you have a mobile pet place that does it. We've got a couple of pet daycare/shampoo/hair cut places that have a van and will come to your home for such things.
Welding gloves. I got a pair for when I have to try to get my beastie into a carrier for vet visits.
Falconry gloves.
I had falconry gloves for an ill-behaved parakeet.
Is there a guitar string factory nearby?
No...not yet, at any rate.
I might have to open one pretty soon.
Ripper has earned the name.