I met someone who was working on the Homeless coalition for our city (Los Angeles) and she said that homelessness is a reflection of failure at many, many stress points, and one of the BIG ones is people being released from prison; they can't stay with anyone in Section 8 housing--i.e., if they want to go stay with their mom, their mom would lose her housing. So they are often forced to couch surf, and as my new friend explained, after that, it's sleeping in the car, and then they lose the car, and then they're homeless. This program sounds like it is seriously recognizing this and making a valiant attempt to address it, and I'm glad to hear it. We have an almost intractable homeless problem here, and it's so important for people to be addressing EVERY part of the social safety net failures leading to it.
Forget it Jake. It's California. "Conservatives" and the national "news" papers need to mind their f**n business. There are real issues that need fixing like, I dunno, how about keep our democracy safe from the fat orange pig.
I can see the blistering editorials in the WSJ and the FNYT already- "California says crime SHOULD pay!". They will be claiming that this program will incentivize "inner city" youths to commit crimes to get in on the gravy train, the same way TANF lures "inner city" teenagers to start popping out babies right, left and center to get in on that sweet gummint money. "Inner city" you must understand, is racist code for non-white, especially black, people. A couple of years in Soledad, and you'll be on easy street for life, they'll claim.
Here's a totally crazy pants idea: Maybe we could PAY incarcerated folks for their labor. If they have fines or restitution or child support, have a percentage go toward that, so they have that payment history. Allow them to access a certain amount of it for personal uae. The rest goes into an account that they can access when they get out.
Prisoners are paid for their work. How much depends on their job assignment and whether they are in a state or federal prison or a for profit prison. Of course the pay can be as low as .10 an hour but can be as much as 5.75 an hour. Paying them "proves" it is not slavery.
but but but- that would almost eradicate slavery in America! Half of this country is still nursing a grudge about the last time their slaves were freed, so they are not gonna like this one bit, nosireebob! Slavery is what this country was built on, from the "transported" criminals to the Parchman farm. Next thing you know, ICE will be repurposed to investigate and prosecute employers of undocumented immigrants who exploit, underpay or simply stiff their work force, and then where would we be?
It's shocking to me that some people*cough conservatives cough* freak out at the idea of any such program, or really any help for recently released folks. Years ago the woman who ran out receiving crew got her nephew a job on her crew, because he was recently released for minor drug offenses, no one would hire him, and he needed a job. She wound up hiring a couple more guys he had been in jail with who needed a job. Then a few more. She helped a lot of people stay out of jail by giving them a chance. Most moved on to other, better paying work because they were able to build up a work history.
Well, you have to remember there are two types of ex-cons. The white teen from a well off family in their freshman year at Southern Cal who gets a girl drunk and rapes her and a poor Black teen caught busting out a car window and stealing a pocketbook. Obviously the white kid just made a mistake, deserves only probation so he isn't kicked out of school and is redeemable while the Black kid is just going to get worse even though he has a job and is going to community college trying to get training as an electrician. He deserves five years in prison.
Halfway houses were supposed to help with things like this. My prison pen pal was too tight lipped to say exactly what the problems were but did say the halfway house actively interfered with job and housing searches. It's not the only time I've heard that.
Asked my brother about the halfway house where he cut his his hand while gutting chickens in a factory. "That's not a halfway house in Fordland, that's a prison."
Sometimes it's little more than boot camp, or prison without walls where the only time you are actually at liberty is going to and from work. Even then you had better not miss the bus or get stuck in traffic because being 15 minutes late to work or back home gets you in trouble. It seems like an overreaction to the people who actually abuse the system, so everyone suffers.
While I'm sure it goes deeper than that, my understanding is that the policies of "you have to be home from x time to y time" and "if the phone rings, which it can at any time, you need to pick up in three rings" keeps your wings clipped.
ETA: I'm happy to hear that she is housed and employed.
Forgive my skepticism, but I've seen these ostensibly "benevolent" measures from California's government before (*coughCARECourtscough*). It's not just that they wrap up their programs in Orwellian management-speak (seriously, "justice-involved"???), but these programs are meant to deliberately manage and control vulnerable people's lives with a long series of strings and exclusionary red tape. A lot of shelter systems operate this way, like requiring homeless people to throw out their valuables in order to stay, they have to come and go at certain hours etc.
The Newsom Dems have done this a lot. Until the fine details disabuse me of this, I doubt this is any different.
We'll look for the details, then, it's a good reminder. There's quite a bit of money to be made managing poverty, quite a few nice director jobs for folks at the top of NGO's.
Now, yes, a lot of shelter programs operate this way but each of those operations have reasons they do it. I believe we need more solutions, and am hopeful that this could be one. Let's watch and see. And if you're in CA? Phone & write your reps and Governor asking for transparency! Get involved if you can.
IKR? I'm sure it's not perfect at all - programs like this are always at least bureaucratic nightmares - but shoving them out the prison gate with a bus ticket is a virtual guarantee of recidivism. Especially for folks who need substance abuse treatment. I met the Hamilton Co. (Ohio) sheriff a couple of times and remember her telling me that drug dealers, pimps, and traffickers often lurk by the prison gate, waiting to approach the recently released.
At the moment financial support and job-search support beats the ever-living HELL out of the immediate alternative, regardless of the applicable semantics.
It's more a "Why *aren't* the Democrats pure enough" post. Remember, there are no Republicans standing in the way in a blue state like California. So why do things like the CARE Courts exist to manage the neurodivergent as if they're a problem rather than human beings with full rights to autonomy?
Perhaps the Dems adhere more to a carceral mindset than you'd like to think.
It's deliberately trying to soften the impact of state-impose violence on those it incarcerates. Let's not kid ourselves here. I'll admit to not being an expert on this system, I'm going off the analyses of podcasts like Death Panel which has looked into the CARE Courts for instance and how it's basically incarceration under a kinder gentler name. I'll await their analysis of this program as well.
"I'll admit to not being an expert on this system . . ." you can stop there. No need to muddy a perfectly cromulent statement of intellectual humility by citing a podcast that ostensibly focusus on health and political economy (ie not criminal justice).
This is post-incarceration, and aimed at getting people on their feet again so they won't reoffend and end up in prison again. So no, not incarceration under another name. Just bouncing people onto the street with no support is what ends up with the majority of them going back to literal prison.
No no, the CARES Courts are incarceration under another name. This might be different, but from analysis of how the CARES Courts forces people into monitoring and regiments their lives, I suspect this is more of the same.
Um...why are you lecturing the author of the article about his own article? Doc didn't write about the CARES Courts. This article is about a different, post-incarceration program. It doesn't even mention CARES. Did you actually read it or just see the words "felon," "California," and "Dems" and start writing an anti-Newsom comment?
will you please, please banhammer this asshole? his arguments always amount to denunciations of anyone, anywhere trying to make anything better for the people he disingenuously claims to care about. It's like a crash course in Lenin's pamphlets from Zurich, and it makes me tired.
It will take about two seconds for Republicans to start screaming about handouts and "putting dangerous criminals in the workplace", if they haven't already. Fuck 'em.
Wait, so CA has the Center for Employment Opportunities (CEO) and MN had the Comprehensive Offender Reentry Plan (CORP). What's what these acronyms?
I met someone who was working on the Homeless coalition for our city (Los Angeles) and she said that homelessness is a reflection of failure at many, many stress points, and one of the BIG ones is people being released from prison; they can't stay with anyone in Section 8 housing--i.e., if they want to go stay with their mom, their mom would lose her housing. So they are often forced to couch surf, and as my new friend explained, after that, it's sleeping in the car, and then they lose the car, and then they're homeless. This program sounds like it is seriously recognizing this and making a valiant attempt to address it, and I'm glad to hear it. We have an almost intractable homeless problem here, and it's so important for people to be addressing EVERY part of the social safety net failures leading to it.
All of the post-release conditions make it seem like that "paid their debt to society" stuff isn't genuine.
Right? And it's so unfair to them & their families.
This is good news for Donald when he gets out!
You mean it’s not enough to give them $20 and a new suit?
Forget it Jake. It's California. "Conservatives" and the national "news" papers need to mind their f**n business. There are real issues that need fixing like, I dunno, how about keep our democracy safe from the fat orange pig.
Hey, this may be crazy, but why not provide UBI and health care to everyone?
I know. Crazy talk.
I can see the blistering editorials in the WSJ and the FNYT already- "California says crime SHOULD pay!". They will be claiming that this program will incentivize "inner city" youths to commit crimes to get in on the gravy train, the same way TANF lures "inner city" teenagers to start popping out babies right, left and center to get in on that sweet gummint money. "Inner city" you must understand, is racist code for non-white, especially black, people. A couple of years in Soledad, and you'll be on easy street for life, they'll claim.
Recidivism? Meh. They won't catch us, we're on a mission from God.
treating people with a minimum level of dignity would be nice.
Here's a totally crazy pants idea: Maybe we could PAY incarcerated folks for their labor. If they have fines or restitution or child support, have a percentage go toward that, so they have that payment history. Allow them to access a certain amount of it for personal uae. The rest goes into an account that they can access when they get out.
I know. Crazy.
Prisoners are paid for their work. How much depends on their job assignment and whether they are in a state or federal prison or a for profit prison. Of course the pay can be as low as .10 an hour but can be as much as 5.75 an hour. Paying them "proves" it is not slavery.
but but but- that would almost eradicate slavery in America! Half of this country is still nursing a grudge about the last time their slaves were freed, so they are not gonna like this one bit, nosireebob! Slavery is what this country was built on, from the "transported" criminals to the Parchman farm. Next thing you know, ICE will be repurposed to investigate and prosecute employers of undocumented immigrants who exploit, underpay or simply stiff their work force, and then where would we be?
like, actually mean it with abolishing slavery? that's crazy talk.
Which would collapse the economics of prisons, which would be a good thing.
When you price something too low you use it badly. My pen pal during her sentence got ordered as part of her prison job to wash a road.
It's shocking to me that some people*cough conservatives cough* freak out at the idea of any such program, or really any help for recently released folks. Years ago the woman who ran out receiving crew got her nephew a job on her crew, because he was recently released for minor drug offenses, no one would hire him, and he needed a job. She wound up hiring a couple more guys he had been in jail with who needed a job. Then a few more. She helped a lot of people stay out of jail by giving them a chance. Most moved on to other, better paying work because they were able to build up a work history.
Well, you have to remember there are two types of ex-cons. The white teen from a well off family in their freshman year at Southern Cal who gets a girl drunk and rapes her and a poor Black teen caught busting out a car window and stealing a pocketbook. Obviously the white kid just made a mistake, deserves only probation so he isn't kicked out of school and is redeemable while the Black kid is just going to get worse even though he has a job and is going to community college trying to get training as an electrician. He deserves five years in prison.
"as if evidence would help." Youse guys are good.
Halfway houses were supposed to help with things like this. My prison pen pal was too tight lipped to say exactly what the problems were but did say the halfway house actively interfered with job and housing searches. It's not the only time I've heard that.
(She's housed and employed now.)
Asked my brother about the halfway house where he cut his his hand while gutting chickens in a factory. "That's not a halfway house in Fordland, that's a prison."
Sometimes it's little more than boot camp, or prison without walls where the only time you are actually at liberty is going to and from work. Even then you had better not miss the bus or get stuck in traffic because being 15 minutes late to work or back home gets you in trouble. It seems like an overreaction to the people who actually abuse the system, so everyone suffers.
While I'm sure it goes deeper than that, my understanding is that the policies of "you have to be home from x time to y time" and "if the phone rings, which it can at any time, you need to pick up in three rings" keeps your wings clipped.
ETA: I'm happy to hear that she is housed and employed.
Forgive my skepticism, but I've seen these ostensibly "benevolent" measures from California's government before (*coughCARECourtscough*). It's not just that they wrap up their programs in Orwellian management-speak (seriously, "justice-involved"???), but these programs are meant to deliberately manage and control vulnerable people's lives with a long series of strings and exclusionary red tape. A lot of shelter systems operate this way, like requiring homeless people to throw out their valuables in order to stay, they have to come and go at certain hours etc.
The Newsom Dems have done this a lot. Until the fine details disabuse me of this, I doubt this is any different.
We'll look for the details, then, it's a good reminder. There's quite a bit of money to be made managing poverty, quite a few nice director jobs for folks at the top of NGO's.
Now, yes, a lot of shelter programs operate this way but each of those operations have reasons they do it. I believe we need more solutions, and am hopeful that this could be one. Let's watch and see. And if you're in CA? Phone & write your reps and Governor asking for transparency! Get involved if you can.
He's in Canada.
and is determined to find the Devil at the root of every attempt at reform, he is a fucking troll, and fuck him
He is absolutely an odious troll.
Thank you- I was beginning to wonder if I was just being over sensitive, but that creep really does get right up my nose.
He brings out the worst in me. He cheers the most hideous shit as wonderful, and shits on the most hopeful shit as hideous.
He is 100% bad faith weirdo.
My you is both plural and rhetoical!
My mistake. The English language really needs a non-regional 2nd person plural!
I valued your input, no worries
Let's be real. There's no measure of success that is going to assuage you.
Ugh . . . you have me starting to cape for Gavin Newsom of all people.
Right? I'm not a massive Newsom fan by any stretch but this program sounds pretty damn good to me.
IKR? I'm sure it's not perfect at all - programs like this are always at least bureaucratic nightmares - but shoving them out the prison gate with a bus ticket is a virtual guarantee of recidivism. Especially for folks who need substance abuse treatment. I met the Hamilton Co. (Ohio) sheriff a couple of times and remember her telling me that drug dealers, pimps, and traffickers often lurk by the prison gate, waiting to approach the recently released.
At the moment financial support and job-search support beats the ever-living HELL out of the immediate alternative, regardless of the applicable semantics.
[huff of frustration]
He's a troll.
He gets to me too.
Anything is better than nothing. Is it perfect? Probably not, but it is far far better than ... nothing.
Another "Let's Shit On Democrats For Not Being Pure Enough" post from the Flyin' Canuck.
Alright, hopefully Gavin will listen to you and scrap the whole thing.
It's more a "Why *aren't* the Democrats pure enough" post. Remember, there are no Republicans standing in the way in a blue state like California. So why do things like the CARE Courts exist to manage the neurodivergent as if they're a problem rather than human beings with full rights to autonomy?
Perhaps the Dems adhere more to a carceral mindset than you'd like to think.
Why are you suck a troll about every possible topic all of the fucking time?
Isn't is exhausting?
It is exhausting for everyone else.
"No Republicans standing in the way" in CA? I have Orange County and the entire Central Valley on line 1 for you.
Don't forget parts of NoCal that might as well be deep red Alabama.
Dems have a supermajority. There's no excuse for half-measures.
Oh Do Shut Up.
"justice involved" isn't management speak, it's woke.
personally I'm a fan of wrap-around services, like these here.
It's deliberately trying to soften the impact of state-impose violence on those it incarcerates. Let's not kid ourselves here. I'll admit to not being an expert on this system, I'm going off the analyses of podcasts like Death Panel which has looked into the CARE Courts for instance and how it's basically incarceration under a kinder gentler name. I'll await their analysis of this program as well.
"I'll admit to not being an expert on this system . . ." you can stop there. No need to muddy a perfectly cromulent statement of intellectual humility by citing a podcast that ostensibly focusus on health and political economy (ie not criminal justice).
It has guests on that are experts. I trust them more than I trust neoliberals.
Hey everyone! He said "neoliberals!" Everybody drink!
You made me laugh at his trolling.
Thank you.
Yeah, almost as if that's a foundational problem in both parties that continues to go unaddressed by its partisan supporters.
This is post-incarceration, and aimed at getting people on their feet again so they won't reoffend and end up in prison again. So no, not incarceration under another name. Just bouncing people onto the street with no support is what ends up with the majority of them going back to literal prison.
No no, the CARES Courts are incarceration under another name. This might be different, but from analysis of how the CARES Courts forces people into monitoring and regiments their lives, I suspect this is more of the same.
Um...why are you lecturing the author of the article about his own article? Doc didn't write about the CARES Courts. This article is about a different, post-incarceration program. It doesn't even mention CARES. Did you actually read it or just see the words "felon," "California," and "Dems" and start writing an anti-Newsom comment?
Because it establishes their pattern when it relates to managing those their base consider "undesirables."
Read/listen: https://www.deathpanel.net/transcripts/disability-and-abolition-w-liat-ben-moshe
no, it's trying to avoid the stigmatizing word "felons."
Jesus, guy.
For whose benefit? Theirs or the broader public's?
for theirs.
will you please, please banhammer this asshole? his arguments always amount to denunciations of anyone, anywhere trying to make anything better for the people he disingenuously claims to care about. It's like a crash course in Lenin's pamphlets from Zurich, and it makes me tired.
The Oakley Sunglasses of services.
It will take about two seconds for Republicans to start screaming about handouts and "putting dangerous criminals in the workplace", if they haven't already. Fuck 'em.
Do YOU waNT to WorK wiTH a MAss MurdeRER?!11!
Do you know of any MAss MurderRERs being released from prison? Not even in California.
I would have put /s at the end but didn't feel it was necessary.
In fairness, on this site random caps kind of serve the same purpose.
my bad. I'll blame it on starting my morning on Twitter/X which set my teeth to grinding.
Oh honey, it is crazy-making.
The best reason to quit twitter!
other than a reluctance to further enrich the Nazi-enabling Boer.