And they mostly don't even personally hate trans folks. Mostly they probably couldn't care less. It's just that trans people became the scapegoat du jour for a political party, and that party thinks there's still blood to squeeze from that particular stone. Trans folks and "criminal alien," except the latter are too amorphous to demonize quite as conveniently. So trans folks it is.
Like the Jews for Hitler? Not really. There aren't enough trans people for a good pogrom. So they're being served up as practice targets. Which is why Granny Sprinkle is so right.
I think you're correct. Exhibit A is Chris Rufo and the shapeshifting bullshit carnival that's been running under his direction since 2021. They started with CRT, and that morphed rapidly into anti-trans and anti-DEI propaganda, along with the amplification of xenophobia. I had a vehement transphobe I used to be friends with before a few years in rural dumbfuckistan turned her Trumpy. Told her that they focus group tested this shit to see what worked. Unfortunately, we worked. Rufo's been honest about the misdirection and redefinition that's been so successful for the right wing. A marginalized group so small is an easy target. Clearly they won't stop there.
I agree in principle, but think there are many within the Trumpist movement that view minorities as targets of opportunity without experiencing genuine personal hatred. It's loathesome. They have that DACA kid, trans relative, ect in their world, but their support ends with those individuals. Might be worse than pure hate, as the lives of those people will be destroyed through the collective bigotry they participate in.
I've not been able to keep up with Wonkette, Pervert Justice, or any of the other gazillion newsletters that fill my email to overflowing so I missed the December 9 story Crip Dyke referred to, but I do remember my oldest, best friend/ first trans friend in the 90s, without a doctor ordering hormones from India black market meds. So scary and I just prayed she was getting what it said it was
Am I understanding this correctly? My kid can no longer get T prescribed to him?! It's been less than two weeks . . .
With the IG being walked out of his office today Im really starting to worry that any small infraction will become excuse to start Round-Ups! So trans men will need to take T can't do it and will have to turn to black-market . .. argh!! WTF America?!
It's not that your kid is prohibited from receiving the prescription, but that doctors, hospitals, and other entities which receive federal funds are prohibited from doing the prescribing EXCEPT under certain conditions.
The main problem is that those conditions aren't entirely clear and the feds can "punish" a doctor merely by investigating them (which carries stigma and costs time and money to fight). This creates the risk that doctors, hospitals and pharmacies will "comply in advance" by refusing to write prescriptions even if circumstances where they arguably should be able to, executive order or not.
"Is yr Wonkette crazy or does attempting 'to alter or remove an individual’s sexual organs to minimize their natural biological functions' via surgery or chemicals sound exactly like birth control?"
The clause you quoted is only about surgical procedures, so it probably bans birth control implants, but not pills or IUDs.
But more important, IIRC (and I'll go check) that clause was part of the same sentence as the reference to "chemical mutilation". The whole point of this ExO is that the ambiguities create fear on the part of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. Even if you're correct, an aggressive prosecutor could choose to interpret it differently for long enough to put a provider through a hellish investigation.
The risk here is that health care shuts down b/c even being investigated is stigma, time and money that providers can't risk. Remember how Boston Children's Hospital was affected by bomb threats? Now imagine it's the prosecutors that are going on TV and saying that they're investigating a particular person or clinic. Do you think that the people who like to issue bomb threats are going to be scared away by the Trump regime's commitment to the rule of law? Of course not.
So you have an interpretation, it might even be correct (as I said I would have to check again to see how I feel on that point), but the government can still put a person or group through hell.
So now the providers are confronted with the choice of complying in advance or risking that hell. If you're a GP or an internist or other primary care provider, providing trans health care is a small part of your practice. It's not worth it.
And yet, if you're a trans person, you're very likely (I heard "over 75%," though I can't remember my source offhand, sometime else to double check) to be getting your hormones through your PCP.
As a result, overnight 75% of trans patients can lose access to basic medicines. And if your provider is willing to continue, will CVS still dispense the prescription or do you need to find a new pharmacy?
Overnight this ExO is dramatically impacting patient care, and that will continue even if your interpretation is in some sense "objectively correct".
I 100% agree about the ambiguity being the point of most things these folks draft But let's look at the passage.
"(c) The phrase 'chemical and surgical mutilation' means"
Standard start to a definition.
"the use of puberty blockers, including GnRH agonists and other interventions, to delay the onset or progression of normally timed puberty in an individual who does not identify as his or her sex;"
No puberty blockers; semicolon means the next thing is independent.
"the use of sex hormones, such as androgen blockers, estrogen, progesterone, or testosterone, to align an individual’s physical appearance with an identity that differs from his or her sex; and"
No HRT; again, a semicolon
"surgical procedures that"
The rest of this clause discusses "surgical procedures," which installing Norplant is but installing an IUD is not, any more than installing braces is a surgical procedure.
"attempt to transform an individual’s physical appearance to align with an identity that differs from his or her sex or that attempt to alter or remove an individual’s sexual organs to minimize or destroy their natural biological functions."
This applies to "surgical procedures" and nothing else.
Why do I point this out? Because people should know what the order does and does not say so they can PUSH BACK CONFIDENTLY against cowards who comply in advance and litigate to force courts to resolve ambiguities. It does not ban birth control pills or IUDs on the plain face of the language and any attempt to say it does should be met with overwhelming resistance.
So should the rest of this garbage EO, but we should never concede that something like this says something it doesn't say. That gives fascists the power.
There won’t be any guidance forthcoming. Ever. Because guidance will limit how some future creative and zealous prosecutor can apply it. And making it as vague as possible motives everyone to err on the side of the most extreme interpretation, because no one wants to go to prison or lose their livelihood by being the first person to put a toe over the line.
The fascists in this country--and they're nothing new, though they've never been so ascendent before--have picked an extremely vulnerable and not very numerous group of people to dehumanize and possibly even target for outright elimination. I know many people don't think Trump & Co. have it in them to become actual genocidal maniacs, but honestly, I don't trust them NOT to do that. Fascism's vile, cruel logic is eliminationist. The minute you commit yourself to radically restructuring your society to suit your extremist agenda and force everyone to conform with it--the very opposite of civil libertarianism--anything is possible. Some people can't "conform" simply because they can't change themselves to accommodate your bigotry. And what do you do with them? We know the answer that a number of tyrants have given.
Ta, Crip Dyke. My heart breaks for everyone denied proper healthcare. Trans rights are HUMAN rights, and that the reich wing is using this because transpeople are such a tiny minority is infuriating. I'll always be an ally.
That actually has precedent. The legal drinking age is 21 nationwide because the federal government threatened to cut off federal road funds to any state that didn't make that their legal age.
"Defines “surgical mutilation” as “surgical procedures that attempt to transform an individual’s physical appearance to align with an identity that differs from his or her sex or that attempt to alter or remove an individual’s sexual organs to minimize or destroy their natural biological functions.”
I dunno - that doesn't seem to exempt circumcision from this order. "...Alter or remove an individual's sexual organs to minimize or destroy their natural biological functions". Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe foreskins have a natural biological function, that of protecting the urethra from infection ( at least if they're properly cleaned, of which MAGAs probably have no idea )
Hell, one could argue that a hysterectomy or oophorectomy for ANY reason would fall under this definition. You've got cancer? Too damn bad, can't take out that baby-making equipment, you know.
Sorry, you can move to the "waiting to die" room with those harlots wanting to destroy those all important baby making machinery. All hail the sperms and egg!
(Snark, thee days you have to specify snark vs Project 25 insanity)
Will this outlaw circumcision of baby boys? Will this make it illegal for very short people to take medications to make their bodies grow taller?
And they mostly don't even personally hate trans folks. Mostly they probably couldn't care less. It's just that trans people became the scapegoat du jour for a political party, and that party thinks there's still blood to squeeze from that particular stone. Trans folks and "criminal alien," except the latter are too amorphous to demonize quite as conveniently. So trans folks it is.
Like the Jews for Hitler? Not really. There aren't enough trans people for a good pogrom. So they're being served up as practice targets. Which is why Granny Sprinkle is so right.
I think you're correct. Exhibit A is Chris Rufo and the shapeshifting bullshit carnival that's been running under his direction since 2021. They started with CRT, and that morphed rapidly into anti-trans and anti-DEI propaganda, along with the amplification of xenophobia. I had a vehement transphobe I used to be friends with before a few years in rural dumbfuckistan turned her Trumpy. Told her that they focus group tested this shit to see what worked. Unfortunately, we worked. Rufo's been honest about the misdirection and redefinition that's been so successful for the right wing. A marginalized group so small is an easy target. Clearly they won't stop there.
No.
They mostly hate everyone even slightly different from them.
They live for HATRED, bigotry, atavism, and xenophobia.
FIxed it ALL for you. You're welcome!
I agree in principle, but think there are many within the Trumpist movement that view minorities as targets of opportunity without experiencing genuine personal hatred. It's loathesome. They have that DACA kid, trans relative, ect in their world, but their support ends with those individuals. Might be worse than pure hate, as the lives of those people will be destroyed through the collective bigotry they participate in.
I regard that as the ne plus ultra of 'fine grades of manure.'
Who fucking cares if *some* Pussy Ass Bitchettes don't hate *EVERY* minority?
They all hate indiscriminately and vindictively and collectively. It's not interesting to debate the consistency and coloration of their SHIT.
I've not been able to keep up with Wonkette, Pervert Justice, or any of the other gazillion newsletters that fill my email to overflowing so I missed the December 9 story Crip Dyke referred to, but I do remember my oldest, best friend/ first trans friend in the 90s, without a doctor ordering hormones from India black market meds. So scary and I just prayed she was getting what it said it was
Yeah, what's old is the new ugly
Every time I think I can't even, something else. And then I can't even more.
My heart goes out to you all. Stay safe.
Am I understanding this correctly? My kid can no longer get T prescribed to him?! It's been less than two weeks . . .
With the IG being walked out of his office today Im really starting to worry that any small infraction will become excuse to start Round-Ups! So trans men will need to take T can't do it and will have to turn to black-market . .. argh!! WTF America?!
It's not that your kid is prohibited from receiving the prescription, but that doctors, hospitals, and other entities which receive federal funds are prohibited from doing the prescribing EXCEPT under certain conditions.
The main problem is that those conditions aren't entirely clear and the feds can "punish" a doctor merely by investigating them (which carries stigma and costs time and money to fight). This creates the risk that doctors, hospitals and pharmacies will "comply in advance" by refusing to write prescriptions even if circumstances where they arguably should be able to, executive order or not.
"Is yr Wonkette crazy or does attempting 'to alter or remove an individual’s sexual organs to minimize their natural biological functions' via surgery or chemicals sound exactly like birth control?"
The clause you quoted is only about surgical procedures, so it probably bans birth control implants, but not pills or IUDs.
YET.
IUDs are implants, as is Norplant.
But more important, IIRC (and I'll go check) that clause was part of the same sentence as the reference to "chemical mutilation". The whole point of this ExO is that the ambiguities create fear on the part of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. Even if you're correct, an aggressive prosecutor could choose to interpret it differently for long enough to put a provider through a hellish investigation.
The risk here is that health care shuts down b/c even being investigated is stigma, time and money that providers can't risk. Remember how Boston Children's Hospital was affected by bomb threats? Now imagine it's the prosecutors that are going on TV and saying that they're investigating a particular person or clinic. Do you think that the people who like to issue bomb threats are going to be scared away by the Trump regime's commitment to the rule of law? Of course not.
So you have an interpretation, it might even be correct (as I said I would have to check again to see how I feel on that point), but the government can still put a person or group through hell.
So now the providers are confronted with the choice of complying in advance or risking that hell. If you're a GP or an internist or other primary care provider, providing trans health care is a small part of your practice. It's not worth it.
And yet, if you're a trans person, you're very likely (I heard "over 75%," though I can't remember my source offhand, sometime else to double check) to be getting your hormones through your PCP.
As a result, overnight 75% of trans patients can lose access to basic medicines. And if your provider is willing to continue, will CVS still dispense the prescription or do you need to find a new pharmacy?
Overnight this ExO is dramatically impacting patient care, and that will continue even if your interpretation is in some sense "objectively correct".
I 100% agree about the ambiguity being the point of most things these folks draft But let's look at the passage.
"(c) The phrase 'chemical and surgical mutilation' means"
Standard start to a definition.
"the use of puberty blockers, including GnRH agonists and other interventions, to delay the onset or progression of normally timed puberty in an individual who does not identify as his or her sex;"
No puberty blockers; semicolon means the next thing is independent.
"the use of sex hormones, such as androgen blockers, estrogen, progesterone, or testosterone, to align an individual’s physical appearance with an identity that differs from his or her sex; and"
No HRT; again, a semicolon
"surgical procedures that"
The rest of this clause discusses "surgical procedures," which installing Norplant is but installing an IUD is not, any more than installing braces is a surgical procedure.
"attempt to transform an individual’s physical appearance to align with an identity that differs from his or her sex or that attempt to alter or remove an individual’s sexual organs to minimize or destroy their natural biological functions."
This applies to "surgical procedures" and nothing else.
Why do I point this out? Because people should know what the order does and does not say so they can PUSH BACK CONFIDENTLY against cowards who comply in advance and litigate to force courts to resolve ambiguities. It does not ban birth control pills or IUDs on the plain face of the language and any attempt to say it does should be met with overwhelming resistance.
So should the rest of this garbage EO, but we should never concede that something like this says something it doesn't say. That gives fascists the power.
There won’t be any guidance forthcoming. Ever. Because guidance will limit how some future creative and zealous prosecutor can apply it. And making it as vague as possible motives everyone to err on the side of the most extreme interpretation, because no one wants to go to prison or lose their livelihood by being the first person to put a toe over the line.
> There won’t be any guidance forthcoming. Ever. Because guidance will limit how some future creative and zealous prosecutor can apply it
Precisely this.
This entire situation can be summed up in one word: Punishment.
The fascists in this country--and they're nothing new, though they've never been so ascendent before--have picked an extremely vulnerable and not very numerous group of people to dehumanize and possibly even target for outright elimination. I know many people don't think Trump & Co. have it in them to become actual genocidal maniacs, but honestly, I don't trust them NOT to do that. Fascism's vile, cruel logic is eliminationist. The minute you commit yourself to radically restructuring your society to suit your extremist agenda and force everyone to conform with it--the very opposite of civil libertarianism--anything is possible. Some people can't "conform" simply because they can't change themselves to accommodate your bigotry. And what do you do with them? We know the answer that a number of tyrants have given.
Ta, Crip Dyke. My heart breaks for everyone denied proper healthcare. Trans rights are HUMAN rights, and that the reich wing is using this because transpeople are such a tiny minority is infuriating. I'll always be an ally.
He wants to force compliance by cutting federal funds to things like fire fighting. California anyone?
That in itself should be an impeachable and convictable offense--wielding even such decisions as an ideological purity test is unamerican to the core.
That actually has precedent. The legal drinking age is 21 nationwide because the federal government threatened to cut off federal road funds to any state that didn't make that their legal age.
Yeah, but I thought that was a duly passed law, not the unilateral decision of a single person, president though he may have been.
"Defines “surgical mutilation” as “surgical procedures that attempt to transform an individual’s physical appearance to align with an identity that differs from his or her sex or that attempt to alter or remove an individual’s sexual organs to minimize or destroy their natural biological functions.”
I dunno - that doesn't seem to exempt circumcision from this order. "...Alter or remove an individual's sexual organs to minimize or destroy their natural biological functions". Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe foreskins have a natural biological function, that of protecting the urethra from infection ( at least if they're properly cleaned, of which MAGAs probably have no idea )
Hell, one could argue that a hysterectomy or oophorectomy for ANY reason would fall under this definition. You've got cancer? Too damn bad, can't take out that baby-making equipment, you know.
what about men with testicular cancer (who tend to be young) for whom an orchiectomy is lifesaving or testicular torsion ?(S.O. had the latter)
Nah, that's men, so it's fine.
Sorry, you can move to the "waiting to die" room with those harlots wanting to destroy those all important baby making machinery. All hail the sperms and egg!
(Snark, thee days you have to specify snark vs Project 25 insanity)
These fucking motherfuckers. That's all I can say. The banhammer forbids more.
"If you’re breathing a sigh of relief that this is only targeting trans people and that means you don’t have to speak up yet"
...then you are hopelessly naive at best. At BEST...
/FFS
"What does the order do?
Defines “children” as persons under the age of 19, not 18"
And you know damn well that if we get to the point where we start drafting people into the military, the age will be 18 not 19...
/FFS
This is sloppy and vicious enough that it might qualify some trans people as political refugees in countries with more enlightened policies.