The budget is the governing document and there *is* the budget for these jobs. They could not have been hired if the budget is not there. Biden added considerably less to the national debt that #45 did the first time around. The economy is the strongest that it's been in a long time, and the US recovered from the pandemic stronger than virtually all industrialized nations. Everyone had inflation, but Biden controlled it better than everyone else. The problem is not the budget, it's giving billionaires tax breaks. And the telling part is that when all these people they want to terminate are terminated, it will only impact a very small portion of the federal budget.
The policies/laws that have been violated are the termination procedures. You have to terminate people in a certain way -- that wasn't followed. You have to RIF in a certain way if you're getting rid of a certain number of people -- that wasn't followed. You even have to terminate probationary employees in a particular way -- that wasn't followed.
Also, the deal with probationary employees is that people who switch jobs within the government, such as a promotion, become probationary in the new position. I know someone who has been with the government for over 25 years, was promoted over 18 months ago, and could lose his job because he's considered probationary, without any assessment of whether his senior position is needed and without the protections he would have had if he hadn't accepted a promotion. It's just like private industry, you see if the promotion is a good fit, but it's not like you're likely to lose your job -- you just move elsewhere within the company because if you're good enough to promote, the company wants to keep you and all the knowledge you've accumulated, not treat you as someone who has been on the job six months.
Other positions are probationary by nature because they are seasonal: the graduate students who spend the summer doing field research and those who staff our national parks. Those are much needed and necessary functions; for the grad students, it's essential for their education and is required to get their masters and Ph.Ds. One-third of the federal workforce is veterans. They want to continue serving and get preferences that impact the composition of the workforce far more than DEI programs. Let's screw them over while we're at it: tell them their service means nothing, and cut enough people at the VA that they won't even be able to get the services they were promised when they put their lives on the line for us.
The job numbers are what is going to drive the economy! What do you think will happen when hundreds of thousands of workers no longer have any income or are collecting unemployment for a short time (which is typically maxed out about 1/3 of replacement income)? These are people who are not spending discretionary money. They are not going out to eat. They are not going on vacation. They are not buying cars. They may lose their home, which will tank the real estate market. I live in the DC area, which was the least hard hit during the 2008 recession because people had stable employment. Now it's going to be the opposite: our economy is likely to collapse with so many out of work, so many people leaving the area to see if they can find jobs elsewhere, and so many people not having any money to spend with our local businesses. We have over 450,000 federal workers, and not a single one of them is safe right now: not the management, not the workers who are part of the civil service, nonpolitical to run things between administrations. And it's not just the federal workers: it's the delis in federal buildings. Child care workers that parents can no longer afford. It will be as bad or worse than the pandemic.
And it will negatively impact tax collection. The billionaires and multimillionaires will be fine, their taxes are cut and they have so many exemptions that they pay such a low percentage of their income. (One estimate is that Musk is paying like 3.1% of his income in taxes, while the rest of us pay 30% or more.) So the money the government is expecting to come in is not going to be there. Trump will continue to increase the debt, not lower it. That's what he did last time, and what he is on track to do again. He will destroy the strong economy we currently have in order to gain the power to do whatever he wants without any kind of laws or contraints. If you think he's doing it to fix the budget, or that it's actually going to have a positive impact on the budget, you have been hoodwinked like so many other people. Trump voters are screaming bloody murder at Congressional Republican town hall meetings: there are federal jobs throughout the country that stabilize local economies, often where there are no other jobs available. They never thought it would happen to them, even though he told us exactly what he was going to do, if elected. They are in the "finding out" stage, and it's going to hit them just as hard as the so called "liberal" federal employee workforce.
I would love to ask any federal worker that voted for the orange stain if he or she asked himself or herself under which administration do you think you stand a chance of losing your job, under tRump or Harris. Then I would like to ask "which is more important to you, keeping your job, or helping billionaires avoid paying taxes?"
Who promised these a job anyway? Did you get a “promise” for your job for life? Why them? They are getting a severance package just like any other employee in the USA. Oops! I am wrong. Not everyone who gets let go gets a severance package!
Government is different than private industry. People who take these jobs are supposed to be the best and the brightest, willing to accept less money than private industry would give them for their stellar credentials and policy expertise.
In turn, they are supposed to be granted job security, constitutionally-guaranteed protections to insulate them from political agendas and whims, and secure retirement plans. Why them? Because they're government employees and that is the set of rules they have played under for their entire careers. They made decisions about where they lived, what their family looks like, when they would retire, etc., based upon the rules they were given.
Arbitrary firings aren't good in private industry either, but we sadly give private companies the ability to terminate someone for any reason or no reason, just not an illegal reason. (That's another reason why unions are important because they can put the brakes on some terminations for no reason.)
This administration is adopting illegal reasons to get rid of people, and then trying to gut the enforcement mechanisms that would keep this behavior in check. Thus far, courts are stepping up to meet the moment and to prevent irreparable harm, but many of those judges were appointed by Trump to do his bidding and let him off the hook, up to and including the Supreme Court, so we will see how long the constitution and rule of law holds up.
and waving hi to Dominic, who I know IRL and am so happy to discover here!
No, absolutely not are people by and stretch of the imagination, given job security in government. What you are talking about is the outdated mode of unionism! A movement of the past that was beneficial to the safety of employees and it migrated to being a political tool to pay people to vote for a specific political party. I was a VP in a labor union at one time in my life and I quickly learned that my job was to “KEEP AS MANY UNION WORKERS PAYING DUES AS POSSIBLE! It had very little to do with anything else. Pay your dues was the mantra of the day. In a “Right to Work” state it is particularly hard to get people to join unions because they are basically ineffective. However, public service is just that, public service. Their retirement is always better than private sector, their health care is better, they get cost of living rises (which is great when you have a Biden who inflated everything!)
Clean house, start over and don’t guarantee jobs. Good people will always have a job.
Have you ever heard of civil service protections? Maybe read up a little about that and start over. Career federal workers are protected from arbitrary firings and entitled to due process hearings concerning their terminations. Appointments to federal agencies for a term usually cannot be terminated except for malfeasance. Political appointees, which are usually very few people at the very top of agencies, are the only ones who can be terminated in favor of each administration's loyalists.
Yes, I worked with numerous people under that program. Some very good, actually most very good. But many who were slugs on the government payroll. Just because there is such a thing doesn’t make it right. The government is bloated, it wastes way too much money and there are way too many “protected” bureaucrats who just dole out money to needless programs so as a result, good programs and good people get cut in the fray. If they are really good they will land on their feet. If not, on welfare, another government program!
There are laws instituting it. Laws established in 1883. You can't just get rid of it because you don't like it or personally know people that you think it shouldn't apply to. Again, people are building their entire careers, family and life decisions based upon a particular set of rules that have held up since the presidency of Chester A. Arthur. Yet #47 and the #SpaceNazi have destroyed it in a month. And all the "most very good" people are getting cut because there is zero effort to assess whether their jobs are needed or whether they are the best employees to be doing them.
That's BS that you think they will land on their feet. First, many are of an age cohort who suffer from age discrimination: too young to retire, too old to be hired. And too young to be eligible for Medicare, so some will literally die because they don't have a job and don't have insurance. And there is barely any welfare left: you're demonstrating that you're operating off propaganda instead of facts.
It's Congress' job to create the budget for agencies, and the agency's job to determine how to deploy the people power to carry out its mission. It's not Elon Musk's job to come in and destroy agencies because he knows zero about how an agency is supposed to function and what is essential to our society functioning. Sure, let's just fire people who maintain our nuclear weapon arsenal and oversee our avian flu response, and do it in such a piss poor way that we can't even contact them to give them their jobs back. That's HR 101: there is actually expertise required in executing a termination or layoff.
Laws created in 1883 are outdated. It is irrational, irrelevant and irresponsible, but very liberal, to believe that any individual hired into the federal government is guaranteed a job for life! Each of the individuals are getting 7 months severance packages and many will retire and get lifetime health care benefits and annual cost of living adjustments to a very lucrative retirement. A retirement pension that far exceeds any in the private sector.
So tell me why Joe Biden didn’t streamline the government? In his 45+ years on the government payroll he surely knew a day of reckoning would come? Why didn’t he streamline rather than bloat government agencies. Biden’s job creation program was mainly in government agencies. Do you honestly believe this country can sustain itself by just creating government jobs. I honestly respect your opinion but I believe it is clouded by your opinion that government budgets (funds) are “printed” as opposed to taken away from hard working people both in the government and private industry.
I emailed my Senator - Tillis - a moment ago because it is not just Trump, it is the Republican Party. We are being dismantled as a nation and they are as meek as lambs going to slaughter.
Senator. With the closure of the JFK Library in Massachusetts, - As a citizen of a certain age this is a direct attack on our history and purpose as a nation. I am telling you now that we are now in a complete melt down of this government and your silence tells me you are perfectly fine with handing the reins of government over to Elon Musk and company. You have failed your oath of office and I consider you a coward and a traitor for your silence in the face of this Trump dumpster government. "Enemies foreign and domestic." Right? What about this do you not understand?
"Plane crashes falling on my head, but that doesn't mean my eyes will soon be turning red..."
Because I'm buying a gun and learning how to use it and take care of it. GA is an open carry state. I recently got a "new" used CRV, if worst comes to worst, I and my dog can sleep in it.
I DON'T mean I'LL be walking around with a holster like WYATT EARP. I'll be traveling alone (if it becomes necessary) except for my dog. My motto is "be prepared."
It figures that "BOWSER Act" is a product of that shitbucket Andy Ogles. Tennesseans of his district need to hang their head in shame for electing him, and they should gather up their torches and pitchforks and send this monster packing!
We're blissfully putting hundreds of thousands of loyal Americans at grave risk of losing everything they've worked years for. How can we let this happen???
Well, both Trump and Musk are power-hungry psychos who relentlessly promoted false images of themselves to the world before they entered politics. A lot of people were either dumb enough to be fooled or just never paid attention until it was too late.
Strip Elmo of his naturalized citizenship, which is questionable for sure, and deport his goofy ass post haste. Freeze all of his assets until a complete IRS audit is completed That is what needs to be done.
This whole myth that government employees are all lazy ne'er do wells is the foulest of lies. it's total bullshit!! Most Federal government people are conscientious hard working people who do work that they could get paid more for in the private sector. Many work in civil service because of a sense of duty, and of course because BT (before Trump) it was very secure employment, with good benefits My Father, a decorated WWII vet spent 28 years with DOD after 8 years of military service Any MAGA chud who denigrates his loyalty and service to the United States can expect to be on the receiving end of a very violent outburst. Besides him, most all of my older relatives worked for the Feds, and I know for a certain fact that they all took their jobs very seriously and believed they were doing important work
How dare some dipshit Afrikanner come to my country, start throwing his weight around and stomping all over my fellow Americans. Any American of any political Party or lean should be outraged beyond reason at what is going on.
You have to give Trelon some credit. Chairman Mao needed thousands of Red Guards to overturn the bureaucracy, but thanks to computers, Big Balls and the gang can do it with a crew small enough that they were stuffed into just a few lockers during high school.
Foulest aspect of this whole smelly mess is that termination letters include some boilerplate paragraph that falsely accuses the terminated of poor job performance, poisoning their future job prospects.
Meanwhile, got distracted by self- loathing Nazi Jew Stephen Miller going totally manic on CNN while calling Brianna ‘histrionic’. That sick mofo, along with Bannon, is what brought us here.
The budget is the governing document and there *is* the budget for these jobs. They could not have been hired if the budget is not there. Biden added considerably less to the national debt that #45 did the first time around. The economy is the strongest that it's been in a long time, and the US recovered from the pandemic stronger than virtually all industrialized nations. Everyone had inflation, but Biden controlled it better than everyone else. The problem is not the budget, it's giving billionaires tax breaks. And the telling part is that when all these people they want to terminate are terminated, it will only impact a very small portion of the federal budget.
The policies/laws that have been violated are the termination procedures. You have to terminate people in a certain way -- that wasn't followed. You have to RIF in a certain way if you're getting rid of a certain number of people -- that wasn't followed. You even have to terminate probationary employees in a particular way -- that wasn't followed.
Also, the deal with probationary employees is that people who switch jobs within the government, such as a promotion, become probationary in the new position. I know someone who has been with the government for over 25 years, was promoted over 18 months ago, and could lose his job because he's considered probationary, without any assessment of whether his senior position is needed and without the protections he would have had if he hadn't accepted a promotion. It's just like private industry, you see if the promotion is a good fit, but it's not like you're likely to lose your job -- you just move elsewhere within the company because if you're good enough to promote, the company wants to keep you and all the knowledge you've accumulated, not treat you as someone who has been on the job six months.
Other positions are probationary by nature because they are seasonal: the graduate students who spend the summer doing field research and those who staff our national parks. Those are much needed and necessary functions; for the grad students, it's essential for their education and is required to get their masters and Ph.Ds. One-third of the federal workforce is veterans. They want to continue serving and get preferences that impact the composition of the workforce far more than DEI programs. Let's screw them over while we're at it: tell them their service means nothing, and cut enough people at the VA that they won't even be able to get the services they were promised when they put their lives on the line for us.
The job numbers are what is going to drive the economy! What do you think will happen when hundreds of thousands of workers no longer have any income or are collecting unemployment for a short time (which is typically maxed out about 1/3 of replacement income)? These are people who are not spending discretionary money. They are not going out to eat. They are not going on vacation. They are not buying cars. They may lose their home, which will tank the real estate market. I live in the DC area, which was the least hard hit during the 2008 recession because people had stable employment. Now it's going to be the opposite: our economy is likely to collapse with so many out of work, so many people leaving the area to see if they can find jobs elsewhere, and so many people not having any money to spend with our local businesses. We have over 450,000 federal workers, and not a single one of them is safe right now: not the management, not the workers who are part of the civil service, nonpolitical to run things between administrations. And it's not just the federal workers: it's the delis in federal buildings. Child care workers that parents can no longer afford. It will be as bad or worse than the pandemic.
And it will negatively impact tax collection. The billionaires and multimillionaires will be fine, their taxes are cut and they have so many exemptions that they pay such a low percentage of their income. (One estimate is that Musk is paying like 3.1% of his income in taxes, while the rest of us pay 30% or more.) So the money the government is expecting to come in is not going to be there. Trump will continue to increase the debt, not lower it. That's what he did last time, and what he is on track to do again. He will destroy the strong economy we currently have in order to gain the power to do whatever he wants without any kind of laws or contraints. If you think he's doing it to fix the budget, or that it's actually going to have a positive impact on the budget, you have been hoodwinked like so many other people. Trump voters are screaming bloody murder at Congressional Republican town hall meetings: there are federal jobs throughout the country that stabilize local economies, often where there are no other jobs available. They never thought it would happen to them, even though he told us exactly what he was going to do, if elected. They are in the "finding out" stage, and it's going to hit them just as hard as the so called "liberal" federal employee workforce.
I would love to ask any federal worker that voted for the orange stain if he or she asked himself or herself under which administration do you think you stand a chance of losing your job, under tRump or Harris. Then I would like to ask "which is more important to you, keeping your job, or helping billionaires avoid paying taxes?"
Who promised these a job anyway? Did you get a “promise” for your job for life? Why them? They are getting a severance package just like any other employee in the USA. Oops! I am wrong. Not everyone who gets let go gets a severance package!
Government is different than private industry. People who take these jobs are supposed to be the best and the brightest, willing to accept less money than private industry would give them for their stellar credentials and policy expertise.
In turn, they are supposed to be granted job security, constitutionally-guaranteed protections to insulate them from political agendas and whims, and secure retirement plans. Why them? Because they're government employees and that is the set of rules they have played under for their entire careers. They made decisions about where they lived, what their family looks like, when they would retire, etc., based upon the rules they were given.
Arbitrary firings aren't good in private industry either, but we sadly give private companies the ability to terminate someone for any reason or no reason, just not an illegal reason. (That's another reason why unions are important because they can put the brakes on some terminations for no reason.)
This administration is adopting illegal reasons to get rid of people, and then trying to gut the enforcement mechanisms that would keep this behavior in check. Thus far, courts are stepping up to meet the moment and to prevent irreparable harm, but many of those judges were appointed by Trump to do his bidding and let him off the hook, up to and including the Supreme Court, so we will see how long the constitution and rule of law holds up.
and waving hi to Dominic, who I know IRL and am so happy to discover here!
No, absolutely not are people by and stretch of the imagination, given job security in government. What you are talking about is the outdated mode of unionism! A movement of the past that was beneficial to the safety of employees and it migrated to being a political tool to pay people to vote for a specific political party. I was a VP in a labor union at one time in my life and I quickly learned that my job was to “KEEP AS MANY UNION WORKERS PAYING DUES AS POSSIBLE! It had very little to do with anything else. Pay your dues was the mantra of the day. In a “Right to Work” state it is particularly hard to get people to join unions because they are basically ineffective. However, public service is just that, public service. Their retirement is always better than private sector, their health care is better, they get cost of living rises (which is great when you have a Biden who inflated everything!)
Clean house, start over and don’t guarantee jobs. Good people will always have a job.
Have you ever heard of civil service protections? Maybe read up a little about that and start over. Career federal workers are protected from arbitrary firings and entitled to due process hearings concerning their terminations. Appointments to federal agencies for a term usually cannot be terminated except for malfeasance. Political appointees, which are usually very few people at the very top of agencies, are the only ones who can be terminated in favor of each administration's loyalists.
Yes, I worked with numerous people under that program. Some very good, actually most very good. But many who were slugs on the government payroll. Just because there is such a thing doesn’t make it right. The government is bloated, it wastes way too much money and there are way too many “protected” bureaucrats who just dole out money to needless programs so as a result, good programs and good people get cut in the fray. If they are really good they will land on their feet. If not, on welfare, another government program!
There are laws instituting it. Laws established in 1883. You can't just get rid of it because you don't like it or personally know people that you think it shouldn't apply to. Again, people are building their entire careers, family and life decisions based upon a particular set of rules that have held up since the presidency of Chester A. Arthur. Yet #47 and the #SpaceNazi have destroyed it in a month. And all the "most very good" people are getting cut because there is zero effort to assess whether their jobs are needed or whether they are the best employees to be doing them.
That's BS that you think they will land on their feet. First, many are of an age cohort who suffer from age discrimination: too young to retire, too old to be hired. And too young to be eligible for Medicare, so some will literally die because they don't have a job and don't have insurance. And there is barely any welfare left: you're demonstrating that you're operating off propaganda instead of facts.
It's Congress' job to create the budget for agencies, and the agency's job to determine how to deploy the people power to carry out its mission. It's not Elon Musk's job to come in and destroy agencies because he knows zero about how an agency is supposed to function and what is essential to our society functioning. Sure, let's just fire people who maintain our nuclear weapon arsenal and oversee our avian flu response, and do it in such a piss poor way that we can't even contact them to give them their jobs back. That's HR 101: there is actually expertise required in executing a termination or layoff.
Laws created in 1883 are outdated. It is irrational, irrelevant and irresponsible, but very liberal, to believe that any individual hired into the federal government is guaranteed a job for life! Each of the individuals are getting 7 months severance packages and many will retire and get lifetime health care benefits and annual cost of living adjustments to a very lucrative retirement. A retirement pension that far exceeds any in the private sector.
So tell me why Joe Biden didn’t streamline the government? In his 45+ years on the government payroll he surely knew a day of reckoning would come? Why didn’t he streamline rather than bloat government agencies. Biden’s job creation program was mainly in government agencies. Do you honestly believe this country can sustain itself by just creating government jobs. I honestly respect your opinion but I believe it is clouded by your opinion that government budgets (funds) are “printed” as opposed to taken away from hard working people both in the government and private industry.
I emailed my Senator - Tillis - a moment ago because it is not just Trump, it is the Republican Party. We are being dismantled as a nation and they are as meek as lambs going to slaughter.
Senator. With the closure of the JFK Library in Massachusetts, - As a citizen of a certain age this is a direct attack on our history and purpose as a nation. I am telling you now that we are now in a complete melt down of this government and your silence tells me you are perfectly fine with handing the reins of government over to Elon Musk and company. You have failed your oath of office and I consider you a coward and a traitor for your silence in the face of this Trump dumpster government. "Enemies foreign and domestic." Right? What about this do you not understand?
Ta, Dom. Your photojournalism always does my heart good.
If Elon and the Donald show me theirs (tax records bank records etc) I'll show them mine. If only that was a realistic expectation.
I was talking to someone who works at the CDC before the purges began. Understandably, he was already looking for a private sector job.
"Plane crashes falling on my head, but that doesn't mean my eyes will soon be turning red..."
Because I'm buying a gun and learning how to use it and take care of it. GA is an open carry state. I recently got a "new" used CRV, if worst comes to worst, I and my dog can sleep in it.
I DON'T mean I'LL be walking around with a holster like WYATT EARP. I'll be traveling alone (if it becomes necessary) except for my dog. My motto is "be prepared."
It was cold and windy as hell out there too, from Boston down to DC. Those people really wanted to be out there.
I didn't even know about it, or I would have been there to photograph it.
I imagine there will be other demonstrations, though.
It figures that "BOWSER Act" is a product of that shitbucket Andy Ogles. Tennesseans of his district need to hang their head in shame for electing him, and they should gather up their torches and pitchforks and send this monster packing!
This is Karen Hunter talking to a federal employee who was manhandled by the fascist minions
This segment also contains an amazing vignette from Sarah Cooper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wGPIMBwBx8
We're blissfully putting hundreds of thousands of loyal Americans at grave risk of losing everything they've worked years for. How can we let this happen???
They're not rich.
Donald Trump is a brilliant businessman and Elon Musk is a techno genius!! How the fuck can any sane person believe that shit?
Their both cults.
Well, both Trump and Musk are power-hungry psychos who relentlessly promoted false images of themselves to the world before they entered politics. A lot of people were either dumb enough to be fooled or just never paid attention until it was too late.
Strip Elmo of his naturalized citizenship, which is questionable for sure, and deport his goofy ass post haste. Freeze all of his assets until a complete IRS audit is completed That is what needs to be done.
This whole myth that government employees are all lazy ne'er do wells is the foulest of lies. it's total bullshit!! Most Federal government people are conscientious hard working people who do work that they could get paid more for in the private sector. Many work in civil service because of a sense of duty, and of course because BT (before Trump) it was very secure employment, with good benefits My Father, a decorated WWII vet spent 28 years with DOD after 8 years of military service Any MAGA chud who denigrates his loyalty and service to the United States can expect to be on the receiving end of a very violent outburst. Besides him, most all of my older relatives worked for the Feds, and I know for a certain fact that they all took their jobs very seriously and believed they were doing important work
How dare some dipshit Afrikanner come to my country, start throwing his weight around and stomping all over my fellow Americans. Any American of any political Party or lean should be outraged beyond reason at what is going on.
You have to give Trelon some credit. Chairman Mao needed thousands of Red Guards to overturn the bureaucracy, but thanks to computers, Big Balls and the gang can do it with a crew small enough that they were stuffed into just a few lockers during high school.
[/s]
Foulest aspect of this whole smelly mess is that termination letters include some boilerplate paragraph that falsely accuses the terminated of poor job performance, poisoning their future job prospects.
Meanwhile, got distracted by self- loathing Nazi Jew Stephen Miller going totally manic on CNN while calling Brianna ‘histrionic’. That sick mofo, along with Bannon, is what brought us here.
Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell laid off the Business Services Division phone banks and outsourced the work to a private sector company.
When the laid-off employees went to apply for unemployment, they discovered that the office had reported them terminated for excessive tardiness.
Also, most Federal workers are not eligible for unemployment benefits.