When I was working the young teachers would do something like run a Marathon on Sunday then call in sick when they couldn't roll out of bed on Monday morning. When you're teaching high school Math nothing is learned when you're not there.
The only way to manage sick leave is to allow rollover to personal leave etc if it’s not used. The way most orgs manage it, if you don’t use it you lose it- then every emp should take all their sick days every year. At my last position , and as a result of union negotiation, unused sick days roll to personal leave , and then if you quit with unused personal leave, that’s paid out in a check upon termination . I’m all for showing up to work - it is very painful for colleagues when employees have attendance issues and call in sick all the time. That said , if sick leave is a benefit , then orgs need to pay emps who don’t call in - so coming in needs to be incentivized . Otherwise , if sick leave is just lost if unused , clearly emps should take every hour they are due.
The sky doesn’t fall - but as an older emp - I can tell you that calling in is being noted by management /admin - and it’s being noted as something that Gen Z is known for, and not in a positive light - teachers not showing up, nurses not showing up, that is a problem . It’s why some orgs will still favor an older employee over a Gen Z- all other things being equal - attendance does matter, in some professions more than others. So, if you’re an emp who prefers more latitude on attendance - I wouldn’t go into professions where is really necessary you show for shifts/days.
I see a lot of comments along the lines of "well, in my experience <insert story about rampant PTO/sick time/FMLA abuse>" and, I need to tell you my Brothers and Sisters in Christ that you are falling into the trap set by management that got us to this toxic ass place where many of us have zero PTO and those that do, can't use it.
Better that 100 people flake out a shift with shenanigans than one single person not be able to take a day off when they need it.
Also, too, why do you give a fuck about mgmts problems? Fuck them.
Also, also, too mind your own business. I'll bet in most of these cases you don't actually know what was going on with that person and only are guessing or repeating rumors.
32 years in telcom, you NEVER called in sick. Had the flu the last few weeks of my pregnancy (ugh) and was told that to go out on leave, I had to come in and finish a tricky retro-credit situation for a customer. And I did. And I went back after the baby because at the time the Old Bell System paid better than other jobs.
The data from 2019 and before with 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 should all be compared to determine the difference between before covid, during the outbreak of covid, and later the vaccinations of 2021. It was said that the younger populations such was Generation Z have been more effected by the covid vaccinations than some of the older generations. To distinguish from the data between all of these years would add to the overall picture.
One of my stepsisters was fired for having thyroid cancer. It was as illegal as hell (even in Texas), but they did it anyway. What could she do about it?
File a charge of disability discrimination with the EEOC and TWC. Depends on how many people her former employer has, but she could go through that process and then receive a right to sue.
Not even file for wrongful termination with any reasonable expectation of victory -- since that literal crook Ken Paxton is still attorney general ... especially if you work for "the state"
Old postal hack: as you begin to ponder retirement, save up all your sick leave. Then, 6-8 weeks before you go, get all your worn-out parts replaced, so they’re working before you sign off.
One trick a company pulled on me was to take time off off the books. Before, we'd get so much Total Time Off, which was a combination of the previous vacation and sick days, plus some "personal" days that you could take on the spur of the moment for whatever reason.
Then they took it all off the books, so you just needed to ask you manager. It was a real psychological block for me, before the days were owned me, they were on the books. After that it felt like I was asking for a favor.
I get the bare legal minimum of PTO required by the State of Maine, which comes to 1 hour a week. Which means that my current vacation is unpaid, which sucks rocks. I have to work almost a whole year to get a week off. BUT the state holidays ARE paid which is unusual for a contract job. AND I've gotten an annual cost of living raise the last two years, which is unheard of for a contract job. The folks who negotiate our contracts do a damn decent job getting us some benefits other contract workers can only dream of. STILL, we need much, much better labor laws.
? I get all fed holidays, 2 weeks vacation, 1 week sick, 3 mental health days a year and an annual cost of living increase and I am a contractor. This is normal where I am at also.
It should be up to your company, not the people they contract to, to provide you benefits, so not sure what negotiating the contract has to do with it.
I read that story, but please share with people where you got it, because not only do I not think everyone knows that terrible tale ... but I think everyone should know it because it happened at THAT TERRIBLE EXPLOITATIVE BANK WELLS FARGO
If I don't feel well enough to go to work, I won't go to work. I also get to work fifteen minutes early every day, if for no other reason, because I build in time for trains, wrecks, cows in the road... And when I walk in, you bet I clock in, because I'm working, unlocking doors, logging in computers, checking supplies, and stuff like that. I get comp time for it, but I always have enough to take off on PD days.
When I retired I left behind something like 100 sick days. I was blessed with good health for all those 25 years with the company and pretty much liked my job (software, no heavy lifting). When I told my boss I was retiring in a year he told me to start taking a sick day every week. I told him he would need to give me only 4 days of work to do. The one time I really got sick (Lyme disease) and missed a week no one complained.
They didn't pay you for the sick leave? When I retired I had a good three months worth of sick leave and vacation accrued (I was working half time, so about six weeks if full time) and they paid me for it. The alternative would have been me taking the time off and coming back to work for a day or two before retirement date. :)
PTO or personal time off is not the answer. It's so easy to say "no one needs more than 14 days of PTO per year. That just means you can't take a 2 week vacation because you don't have any Sick Time. Or if you come down with COVID just before a vacation you may have to come home easy because you've used up all your PTO. Workers need separate banks of Sick Time and Vacation Time so they can safely plan their lives.
We had such abuse of sick days by some people, the company changed our vacation and sick days into "PTO" days (paid time off). It makes sick people come into work, because they want to save their PTO days for vacation. Not a great idea, but it sure cut back on people taking sick days as a vacation day.
I am noticing that we, as a society, move further away from the Pandemic Years of 2020 to 2023, are collectivity forgetting just how bad a disease Covid was to everyone. The results of this disease caused major upheaval all throughout our society. Plus, the writer from Fortune makes it look like that Gen Z woke up one day sometime in 2020 and said, "Let's start a trend and take sick days for our personal health and the betterment of society." I call shenanigans on that line of thinking. I'll give you my educated guess on why we have sick days that makes more sense.
-
From the article, "She (the Fortune writer) posits that every workplace has a set of unwritten rules by which longtime workers abide. In many workplaces, not taking sick days—even if they were allotted by an employer—is one of those rules. But for Gen Zers, who are largely just beginning to enter the workforce, those unwritten rules may not apply—simply because they don’t know what they are."
-
I have a few things to pick apart from the quote above. It's true that Gen Z was just starting to enter the workforce when Covid struck. Of course, Gen Z was going to be the next generation to be taught, just like every generation before them, that if you want to rise in the workplace, you don't call in sick, and you come in sick and power your way through shift, like Michael Jordan on the basketball court back in the day. But, here's the thing, Covid was the first new disease in a long time that made society at large, really, really, really, sick. Like so sick, you couldn't get out of bed, no matter how badly you wanted to get out of that bed. You we're incapacitated to the point that hospitalization was required for many, even for those who had no known health issues prior to them catching Covid. A lot of people met untimely deaths due to Covid, as well. Let's not forget the people who are on permanent disability on this very day in 2024 because of long term Covid.
-
Of course Robyn mentions, "people have a legitimate fear of being fired." I put this quote here because as the pandemic worsened as businesses reopened to 100 percent, employers did start firing their employees for calling out sick. But instead of getting a replacement worker in a few hours like in pre Covid times, turns out the other employees were calling in sick, too. Now the employer has a problem, how do you run a business if there is no one to staff them??? You are forced to shut down until you can restaff. And so began the Great Labor Shortage of the Early 2020's. I personally saw several businesses where I live choose that option back in 2021 and part of 2022. As companies rehired, you had to give out better benefits in order to keep new hires. Failure to do so either kept positions open a lot longer than they should have, or the business that was stuck in old, toxic ways, shut down for good.
Out of that chaos and confusion of that time, things did get better for employees. Employees got sick days, unions are being given a second chance, and wages are going up. I still feel awful that it took a vicious disease for us to get these things, but here we are.
" am noticing that we, as a society, move further away from the Pandemic Years of 2020 to 2023, are collectivity forgetting just how bad a disease Covid was to everyone"
People are in denial about the fact that people STILL GET IT.
Even the President got it.
I sometimes wonder what the hell is collectively wrong with the "ruling class" in this country
Part of it is how we are "hardwired" in all of various way that would take to long to non comment. Human beings, if they have the ability and means to do so, love to wrap themselves in their personal "bubbles" and the comforts those "bubbles" provide them. When those "bubbles" are threatened or broken, whether it's on a global or a personal scale, we will lose our ever loving minds, every, freaking, single, time!!1!1!!!1!!! It's been like that since:
A. We evolved out of the plains of Africa.
B. We walked out of the caves and saw the tundras spread before us.
C. Since the beginning chapters of your favorite Creation story that brings you the most comfort.
I have to do a lot of trainings to keep my job, and those I enjoyed the most were for Trauma Informed Care. At every training since 2020, I have stated very simply that the COVID-19 years were traumatic, one way or another, for the entire world. We ALL need trauma informed care, no matter what we do for a living.
My state agency had a policy that management could request a doctor's note for sick leave if more than two days' of leave were used in order to fight potential abuses of the sick leave policy. I got a really bad case of the flu and was out three days. When I got back, I was informed I was going to have to get a doctor's note, or my leave time wouldn't be approved.
At the time, I only had 145 hours of sick leave in my account, so they clearly had grounds to suspect abuse.
When I was working the young teachers would do something like run a Marathon on Sunday then call in sick when they couldn't roll out of bed on Monday morning. When you're teaching high school Math nothing is learned when you're not there.
The only way to manage sick leave is to allow rollover to personal leave etc if it’s not used. The way most orgs manage it, if you don’t use it you lose it- then every emp should take all their sick days every year. At my last position , and as a result of union negotiation, unused sick days roll to personal leave , and then if you quit with unused personal leave, that’s paid out in a check upon termination . I’m all for showing up to work - it is very painful for colleagues when employees have attendance issues and call in sick all the time. That said , if sick leave is a benefit , then orgs need to pay emps who don’t call in - so coming in needs to be incentivized . Otherwise , if sick leave is just lost if unused , clearly emps should take every hour they are due.
The sky doesn’t fall - but as an older emp - I can tell you that calling in is being noted by management /admin - and it’s being noted as something that Gen Z is known for, and not in a positive light - teachers not showing up, nurses not showing up, that is a problem . It’s why some orgs will still favor an older employee over a Gen Z- all other things being equal - attendance does matter, in some professions more than others. So, if you’re an emp who prefers more latitude on attendance - I wouldn’t go into professions where is really necessary you show for shifts/days.
I see a lot of comments along the lines of "well, in my experience <insert story about rampant PTO/sick time/FMLA abuse>" and, I need to tell you my Brothers and Sisters in Christ that you are falling into the trap set by management that got us to this toxic ass place where many of us have zero PTO and those that do, can't use it.
Better that 100 people flake out a shift with shenanigans than one single person not be able to take a day off when they need it.
Also, too, why do you give a fuck about mgmts problems? Fuck them.
Also, also, too mind your own business. I'll bet in most of these cases you don't actually know what was going on with that person and only are guessing or repeating rumors.
32 years in telcom, you NEVER called in sick. Had the flu the last few weeks of my pregnancy (ugh) and was told that to go out on leave, I had to come in and finish a tricky retro-credit situation for a customer. And I did. And I went back after the baby because at the time the Old Bell System paid better than other jobs.
The data from 2019 and before with 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 should all be compared to determine the difference between before covid, during the outbreak of covid, and later the vaccinations of 2021. It was said that the younger populations such was Generation Z have been more effected by the covid vaccinations than some of the older generations. To distinguish from the data between all of these years would add to the overall picture.
One of my stepsisters was fired for having thyroid cancer. It was as illegal as hell (even in Texas), but they did it anyway. What could she do about it?
File a charge of disability discrimination with the EEOC and TWC. Depends on how many people her former employer has, but she could go through that process and then receive a right to sue.
Contact the press, the feds, and the Aclu. Aside from that, very little because we lack the protections mentioned in the article.
Those monsters. Jesus
Nothing, in a state run by Greg Abbott
Not even file for wrongful termination with any reasonable expectation of victory -- since that literal crook Ken Paxton is still attorney general ... especially if you work for "the state"
Old postal hack: as you begin to ponder retirement, save up all your sick leave. Then, 6-8 weeks before you go, get all your worn-out parts replaced, so they’re working before you sign off.
One trick a company pulled on me was to take time off off the books. Before, we'd get so much Total Time Off, which was a combination of the previous vacation and sick days, plus some "personal" days that you could take on the spur of the moment for whatever reason.
Then they took it all off the books, so you just needed to ask you manager. It was a real psychological block for me, before the days were owned me, they were on the books. After that it felt like I was asking for a favor.
I get the bare legal minimum of PTO required by the State of Maine, which comes to 1 hour a week. Which means that my current vacation is unpaid, which sucks rocks. I have to work almost a whole year to get a week off. BUT the state holidays ARE paid which is unusual for a contract job. AND I've gotten an annual cost of living raise the last two years, which is unheard of for a contract job. The folks who negotiate our contracts do a damn decent job getting us some benefits other contract workers can only dream of. STILL, we need much, much better labor laws.
? I get all fed holidays, 2 weeks vacation, 1 week sick, 3 mental health days a year and an annual cost of living increase and I am a contractor. This is normal where I am at also.
It should be up to your company, not the people they contract to, to provide you benefits, so not sure what negotiating the contract has to do with it.
Of course, everyone is free to go to work and die. Then be ignored for four days. I mean no&one wants to let their boss down, right?
I read that story, but please share with people where you got it, because not only do I not think everyone knows that terrible tale ... but I think everyone should know it because it happened at THAT TERRIBLE EXPLOITATIVE BANK WELLS FARGO
If I don't feel well enough to go to work, I won't go to work. I also get to work fifteen minutes early every day, if for no other reason, because I build in time for trains, wrecks, cows in the road... And when I walk in, you bet I clock in, because I'm working, unlocking doors, logging in computers, checking supplies, and stuff like that. I get comp time for it, but I always have enough to take off on PD days.
When I retired I left behind something like 100 sick days. I was blessed with good health for all those 25 years with the company and pretty much liked my job (software, no heavy lifting). When I told my boss I was retiring in a year he told me to start taking a sick day every week. I told him he would need to give me only 4 days of work to do. The one time I really got sick (Lyme disease) and missed a week no one complained.
They didn't pay you for the sick leave? When I retired I had a good three months worth of sick leave and vacation accrued (I was working half time, so about six weeks if full time) and they paid me for it. The alternative would have been me taking the time off and coming back to work for a day or two before retirement date. :)
PTO or personal time off is not the answer. It's so easy to say "no one needs more than 14 days of PTO per year. That just means you can't take a 2 week vacation because you don't have any Sick Time. Or if you come down with COVID just before a vacation you may have to come home easy because you've used up all your PTO. Workers need separate banks of Sick Time and Vacation Time so they can safely plan their lives.
We had such abuse of sick days by some people, the company changed our vacation and sick days into "PTO" days (paid time off). It makes sick people come into work, because they want to save their PTO days for vacation. Not a great idea, but it sure cut back on people taking sick days as a vacation day.
They were not abusing their sick days.
Those days should be theirs to do with as they see fit. It is their time off. Your company is being a cheap skate and blaming your fellow workers
People should get paid sick days when they are sick, but there's always someone who abuses it and ruins it for everyone else.
I am noticing that we, as a society, move further away from the Pandemic Years of 2020 to 2023, are collectivity forgetting just how bad a disease Covid was to everyone. The results of this disease caused major upheaval all throughout our society. Plus, the writer from Fortune makes it look like that Gen Z woke up one day sometime in 2020 and said, "Let's start a trend and take sick days for our personal health and the betterment of society." I call shenanigans on that line of thinking. I'll give you my educated guess on why we have sick days that makes more sense.
-
From the article, "She (the Fortune writer) posits that every workplace has a set of unwritten rules by which longtime workers abide. In many workplaces, not taking sick days—even if they were allotted by an employer—is one of those rules. But for Gen Zers, who are largely just beginning to enter the workforce, those unwritten rules may not apply—simply because they don’t know what they are."
-
I have a few things to pick apart from the quote above. It's true that Gen Z was just starting to enter the workforce when Covid struck. Of course, Gen Z was going to be the next generation to be taught, just like every generation before them, that if you want to rise in the workplace, you don't call in sick, and you come in sick and power your way through shift, like Michael Jordan on the basketball court back in the day. But, here's the thing, Covid was the first new disease in a long time that made society at large, really, really, really, sick. Like so sick, you couldn't get out of bed, no matter how badly you wanted to get out of that bed. You we're incapacitated to the point that hospitalization was required for many, even for those who had no known health issues prior to them catching Covid. A lot of people met untimely deaths due to Covid, as well. Let's not forget the people who are on permanent disability on this very day in 2024 because of long term Covid.
-
Of course Robyn mentions, "people have a legitimate fear of being fired." I put this quote here because as the pandemic worsened as businesses reopened to 100 percent, employers did start firing their employees for calling out sick. But instead of getting a replacement worker in a few hours like in pre Covid times, turns out the other employees were calling in sick, too. Now the employer has a problem, how do you run a business if there is no one to staff them??? You are forced to shut down until you can restaff. And so began the Great Labor Shortage of the Early 2020's. I personally saw several businesses where I live choose that option back in 2021 and part of 2022. As companies rehired, you had to give out better benefits in order to keep new hires. Failure to do so either kept positions open a lot longer than they should have, or the business that was stuck in old, toxic ways, shut down for good.
Out of that chaos and confusion of that time, things did get better for employees. Employees got sick days, unions are being given a second chance, and wages are going up. I still feel awful that it took a vicious disease for us to get these things, but here we are.
" am noticing that we, as a society, move further away from the Pandemic Years of 2020 to 2023, are collectivity forgetting just how bad a disease Covid was to everyone"
People are in denial about the fact that people STILL GET IT.
Even the President got it.
I sometimes wonder what the hell is collectively wrong with the "ruling class" in this country
Part of it is how we are "hardwired" in all of various way that would take to long to non comment. Human beings, if they have the ability and means to do so, love to wrap themselves in their personal "bubbles" and the comforts those "bubbles" provide them. When those "bubbles" are threatened or broken, whether it's on a global or a personal scale, we will lose our ever loving minds, every, freaking, single, time!!1!1!!!1!!! It's been like that since:
A. We evolved out of the plains of Africa.
B. We walked out of the caves and saw the tundras spread before us.
C. Since the beginning chapters of your favorite Creation story that brings you the most comfort.
We will never deal with the fact that went through a collective trauma.
I have to do a lot of trainings to keep my job, and those I enjoyed the most were for Trauma Informed Care. At every training since 2020, I have stated very simply that the COVID-19 years were traumatic, one way or another, for the entire world. We ALL need trauma informed care, no matter what we do for a living.
My state agency had a policy that management could request a doctor's note for sick leave if more than two days' of leave were used in order to fight potential abuses of the sick leave policy. I got a really bad case of the flu and was out three days. When I got back, I was informed I was going to have to get a doctor's note, or my leave time wouldn't be approved.
At the time, I only had 145 hours of sick leave in my account, so they clearly had grounds to suspect abuse.
"Hello Doc? I'm really sick. I need to see you."
"This is the scheduling service, and we can squeeze you in at 7:30 AM on Thursday."
"Tomorrow? I'll take it."
"No, next December."