Simpsons bus driver: "Don't make me tap the sign."
The sign, already in the article:
Well yes, this is still fallout from the intraparty fight over the nomination of Hillary Clinton in 2016, and good lord if you filthy fuckaducks relitigate THAT in the comments we’re gonna gonna have to turn the hose on yez.
Sorry, but I disagree with this idea. Attacking DEMS when we have no money to do so seems insane. Also, we need to try to attract Independents and marginal GOPers. I am sure most people here will disagree with me. So what. I live in the real world.
I think David Hogg is correct, largely. I think we absolutely should be trimming the power-adoring fat from Dem leadership and shaping up our policies to be more in line with the rest of the modern world (now that I've lived in a country with Medicare for all & seen firsthand how much better it works AND how much cheaper it is for both individuals and government, it's an absolute no-brainer- it's really beyond me that anyone thinks they can't make this sale) as well as hitting Trump MUCH harder on his fascism and abuse of the American people as well as immigrants.
Kamala's campaign was going the right direction. America deserves better.
you ready to take it to the streets, boo?..cause nothing else is working right now, not even the court orders
i would, but i'm 68 yrs old and tired...whaddaya think, time for a gray revolution? oh, that's right, we olds need to gtfo of the way for the youngs now...have fun w dat, kids🙄
You too tired to protest? To write letters? To make calls? To support those who do?
I get being tired. I'm old too, and grouchy, and in the hospital right now. But the thing is, I don't see the youth wanting to clear out the olds; I see them wanting to clear out the collaborators, which is a whole different thing. Bernie Sanders isn't going anywhere, until he has an aneurysm on the floor of Congress. Likewise there are younger Dems who have shown that they are in it for personal power and will not stand up against Shitler.
Don't buy the hype. The kids are all right. Even here, David Hogg clarifies that it's not about age- although of course, for practical purposes, if we can get a younger excellent candidate into a safe seat, that is preferable. (I'll add from personal experience that there are other pluses and minuses, as I'm sure you're all too aware, to older and younger candidates.)
A very large majority of voters in my blue town wanted Bernie as the candidate, and we voted overwhelming that way, but our convention delegate decided she didn't want to support him and voted for Hillary. She very publicly told us all to go pound sand. I had no qualms about voting for Hillary and did, but I still get angry when I see this woman.
Seriously, if you’re still trying to fight the 2016 Dem primary, then you have your head up your ass as far as priorities go and I don’t wanna know ya.
Politics require being pragmatic, which you were. In general, voting for the candidate who is closest to your own beliefs AND has a real chance to win is the way to go. Purity ponies waste their votes.
I’m a Boomer and am 100 percent behind David Hogg. He is totally right about the necessity to overhaul the Democratic Party. I don’t think he’s come out that strong about it, but there are those of us who have lost faith in the party over the years, and especially since they’ve demonstrated very little resolve in addressing the Dump regime problem. Only a few Democrats are inspirational.
I'm no fan of Carville, but I don't like Hogg's particular brand of progessiveness either, so.... just as long as the DNC don't fuck this all up, it'll be okay (I hope)
A little infighting is fine, I just hope this doesn't blow up into a THING
"Can’t we all just get a lawn, and keep James Carville off it?"
And that's why I send Wonkette the big bucks every month (they are not big. But they are every month).
Seriously tho, this just perked up my Monday. I have children older than this young man, and I absolutely agree with him. I'm still a Dem mostly because the only other real alternative is unthinkable; but give me a viable progressive alternative and my shade of blue will go green. Or purple. Whatever.
So tell me, would you be crying bloody murder if the DNC decided to try to oust the Squad and all your other favorites because they didn't fit the party vision? Of course you would. You would argue - quite correctly - that it should be the voters who decide that, not party bosses with their own agenda. Indeed, if party bosses were to try that, it would be fundamentally at odds with the notion of democracy.
Well then, perhaps you should be arguing the same in the non-hypothetical condition.
The "shoe on the other foot" test is the most basic test of whether an idea is fair or wise, and I am appalled that progressives don't even know about it. It certainly explains some things, but it's still appalling.
That's the thing. Who is the DNC and what exactly do they do? I don't remember electing any of them. They just basically showed up and said we are the DNC and we're here to help. The only power they have is the power that they claim. There is absolutely nothing stopping The formation of a similar organization that explicitly supports progressive candidates. If the DNC was an employee of the Democratic Party, they would be fired.
We do not have the money to primary Democrats, unlike the GOP. Also, everyone here will hate me for saying so, but it is the truth. Plus, DO YOU WANT TO WIN, or do you want to play purity politics and LOSE???
If "winning" is getting AIPAC-funded, Republican -lite people who have no qualms confirming all the horrible Republican nominees and disgusting, retrograde laws, sorry, that doesn't help our country and doesn't feel like winning. Source: My Senators are Slotkin and Peters 🤢
His brand of neoliberalism is how we got here - Clinton’s deregulation and free trade created the discontent that allows a demagogue like Trump to flourish
His message of the economy stupid still rings true. But perhaps not in the way he thinks.
This is my first read-up on the Hogg situation. And I have to say, he is stating exactly why my brief membership in the party is about to end. A candidate should not have to fight their own party so hard! I have always known that the party always - ALWAYS - backs the incumbent. I've heard several reasons:
1. The incumbent always has that name recognition and that is election GOLD.
2. They also have that track record of having won.
3. There are dividends to seniority in Congress/Senate (which doesn't explain backing of incumbents in other races).
Last but not least:
4. The party repays loyalty to the party.
It is that last one that always gets me het up. Unless you do something criminal, once you are elected you get that support, no questions seemingly asked.
If the party claims to be neutral regarding primaries, then why do incumbents ALWAYS get the support? And not always the best and brightest.
Maybe that's not the right position for Hogg to be in. But I have to say that I'm with him. (I think that "age 35 years or under" is another artificial endorsement. However it's one that is needed at this point in time.)
I tend to go with his side in this conflict ever since I watched a bunch of Democrats with their stupid little paddle board signs at the speech. That was truly pathetic!
I’ve been cheering on David Hogg for years. Contribute regularly to Leaders We Deserve, supported Representative Frost, looking forward to the future in hands of younger people. Just like I support Wonkette! 💙💙💙🩵💜💚❤️
Moderator note:
Simpsons bus driver: "Don't make me tap the sign."
The sign, already in the article:
Well yes, this is still fallout from the intraparty fight over the nomination of Hillary Clinton in 2016, and good lord if you filthy fuckaducks relitigate THAT in the comments we’re gonna gonna have to turn the hose on yez.
Next stop: Crackton.
Part 1 of the coup was convincing us we had to dump senile old Joe.
.
This is Part 2.
WHY do we have to look back at old DEM party crap? Shouldn't we be looking ahead???
Are we going to get more buttery emails is the question everyone should be asking because mmmmm butter!
spoken like a true bagel
I could always go for a bagel with schmear. Always. :D
Sorry, but I disagree with this idea. Attacking DEMS when we have no money to do so seems insane. Also, we need to try to attract Independents and marginal GOPers. I am sure most people here will disagree with me. So what. I live in the real world.
1 - there ARE no 'marginal GOPers'.
2 - this is the same tired strategy that's been trotted out since forever, and I don't see it winning us any elections.
And you think wringing our hands and merely rebuking the would-be God-Emperor is the way to do that?
So, what is your answer to growing DEM voters???
I think David Hogg is correct, largely. I think we absolutely should be trimming the power-adoring fat from Dem leadership and shaping up our policies to be more in line with the rest of the modern world (now that I've lived in a country with Medicare for all & seen firsthand how much better it works AND how much cheaper it is for both individuals and government, it's an absolute no-brainer- it's really beyond me that anyone thinks they can't make this sale) as well as hitting Trump MUCH harder on his fascism and abuse of the American people as well as immigrants.
Kamala's campaign was going the right direction. America deserves better.
I guess I still do not agree with primarying DEM politicians. Now, trying to replace/reconfigure the "powers that be" is a worthy idea in my opinion.
you ready to take it to the streets, boo?..cause nothing else is working right now, not even the court orders
i would, but i'm 68 yrs old and tired...whaddaya think, time for a gray revolution? oh, that's right, we olds need to gtfo of the way for the youngs now...have fun w dat, kids🙄
You too tired to protest? To write letters? To make calls? To support those who do?
I get being tired. I'm old too, and grouchy, and in the hospital right now. But the thing is, I don't see the youth wanting to clear out the olds; I see them wanting to clear out the collaborators, which is a whole different thing. Bernie Sanders isn't going anywhere, until he has an aneurysm on the floor of Congress. Likewise there are younger Dems who have shown that they are in it for personal power and will not stand up against Shitler.
Don't buy the hype. The kids are all right. Even here, David Hogg clarifies that it's not about age- although of course, for practical purposes, if we can get a younger excellent candidate into a safe seat, that is preferable. (I'll add from personal experience that there are other pluses and minuses, as I'm sure you're all too aware, to older and younger candidates.)
Relitigating 2016 is so passe.
I want to relitigate Dewey defeating Truman!
Are you saying we would “Feel the Bern” if we try?
A very large majority of voters in my blue town wanted Bernie as the candidate, and we voted overwhelming that way, but our convention delegate decided she didn't want to support him and voted for Hillary. She very publicly told us all to go pound sand. I had no qualms about voting for Hillary and did, but I still get angry when I see this woman.
I wanted Bernie, too.
We waited too long to throw OHJB under the bus!
There I said it! FIGHT ME!
Relitigating Clinton 16, that's a paddlin.
If the topic is 2016, we can debate whether or not Zoolander 2 should have been made.
It should not have.
Objectively correct — y'oughta be dinged for even pretending to imply controversy
No debate needed.
Seriously, if you’re still trying to fight the 2016 Dem primary, then you have your head up your ass as far as priorities go and I don’t wanna know ya.
Or they know something about time travel that we don't and ... 'sall I got
This thread is excellent.
I didn't want Hillary or Bernie in 2016, I got over it and I voted for Hillary because Trump sucks.
Who did you want? (I voted Nader 2000 from my lofty perch at TESC. Plz don't ask about '96 or '12)
I wanted Warren to run.
Me too! ‘All’ in the timing…
She hit my three POTUS voting criteria.
1) Reasonable understanding of foreign policy.
2) Moral center
3) Smarter than me. (this is the easiest one for a candidate to pass but like the other two I felt Trump failed it too.
3’s extra-tricky for choosing therapists!
Politics require being pragmatic, which you were. In general, voting for the candidate who is closest to your own beliefs AND has a real chance to win is the way to go. Purity ponies waste their votes.
Well aren't you the mature adult in the room?
Yes, Yes I am
Thank goodness for that!
I don't think goodness is even tangentially involved
Well, we are talking about politics.
I used to think I was mean, but I had no idea what I'm capable of until recently.
Don't make Daddy pull the car over......
But I hafta pee!
Good grief my sister used to say, "Snoopy helps me make not have to go to the bathroom!" lol
Dad: “well, I don’t.”
Please don't turn the hose on us, Dok.
See my purse, I'm a poor, poor man.
Maybe he could tap the sign just until we have to wear glasses?
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
Pantsuits!!!!!!!!!!
I’m a Boomer and am 100 percent behind David Hogg. He is totally right about the necessity to overhaul the Democratic Party. I don’t think he’s come out that strong about it, but there are those of us who have lost faith in the party over the years, and especially since they’ve demonstrated very little resolve in addressing the Dump regime problem. Only a few Democrats are inspirational.
Separating the wheat from the chaff is all really fucking great, but it's dishonest to say it isn't threaded with ageism and age discrimination.
Hasn't the DNC primaries AOC in every election since she won the first time?
If Carville is mad, then Hogg is in the right, because fuck Carville.
I'm no fan of Carville, but I don't like Hogg's particular brand of progessiveness either, so.... just as long as the DNC don't fuck this all up, it'll be okay (I hope)
A little infighting is fine, I just hope this doesn't blow up into a THING
"Can’t we all just get a lawn, and keep James Carville off it?"
And that's why I send Wonkette the big bucks every month (they are not big. But they are every month).
Seriously tho, this just perked up my Monday. I have children older than this young man, and I absolutely agree with him. I'm still a Dem mostly because the only other real alternative is unthinkable; but give me a viable progressive alternative and my shade of blue will go green. Or purple. Whatever.
So tell me, would you be crying bloody murder if the DNC decided to try to oust the Squad and all your other favorites because they didn't fit the party vision? Of course you would. You would argue - quite correctly - that it should be the voters who decide that, not party bosses with their own agenda. Indeed, if party bosses were to try that, it would be fundamentally at odds with the notion of democracy.
Well then, perhaps you should be arguing the same in the non-hypothetical condition.
The "shoe on the other foot" test is the most basic test of whether an idea is fair or wise, and I am appalled that progressives don't even know about it. It certainly explains some things, but it's still appalling.
The only thing the DNC has done in the last 20 years is ask me for money.
That's the thing. Who is the DNC and what exactly do they do? I don't remember electing any of them. They just basically showed up and said we are the DNC and we're here to help. The only power they have is the power that they claim. There is absolutely nothing stopping The formation of a similar organization that explicitly supports progressive candidates. If the DNC was an employee of the Democratic Party, they would be fired.
I get that Hogg is pissing off centrists and other old school Dems...But is he popular with the kids, as the kids say?
I mean, does he bring in young people who'd otherwise not vote to vote for Democrats? I have no idea if young progressives even know who he is.
We do not have the money to primary Democrats, unlike the GOP. Also, everyone here will hate me for saying so, but it is the truth. Plus, DO YOU WANT TO WIN, or do you want to play purity politics and LOSE???
If "winning" is getting AIPAC-funded, Republican -lite people who have no qualms confirming all the horrible Republican nominees and disgusting, retrograde laws, sorry, that doesn't help our country and doesn't feel like winning. Source: My Senators are Slotkin and Peters 🤢
James Carville calling anyone a twerp is hilarious.
Carville hasnt been relevant since the 90s.
His brand of neoliberalism is how we got here - Clinton’s deregulation and free trade created the discontent that allows a demagogue like Trump to flourish
His message of the economy stupid still rings true. But perhaps not in the way he thinks.
He needs to retire back to his swamp
This is my first read-up on the Hogg situation. And I have to say, he is stating exactly why my brief membership in the party is about to end. A candidate should not have to fight their own party so hard! I have always known that the party always - ALWAYS - backs the incumbent. I've heard several reasons:
1. The incumbent always has that name recognition and that is election GOLD.
2. They also have that track record of having won.
3. There are dividends to seniority in Congress/Senate (which doesn't explain backing of incumbents in other races).
Last but not least:
4. The party repays loyalty to the party.
It is that last one that always gets me het up. Unless you do something criminal, once you are elected you get that support, no questions seemingly asked.
If the party claims to be neutral regarding primaries, then why do incumbents ALWAYS get the support? And not always the best and brightest.
Maybe that's not the right position for Hogg to be in. But I have to say that I'm with him. (I think that "age 35 years or under" is another artificial endorsement. However it's one that is needed at this point in time.)
The DNC does not back incumbents; the DNC stays neutral. Organizations like the DCCC fund House re-election campaigns.
Backing incumbents keeps crooks like Cuellar and Menendez in office And the seniority system keeps the ineffectual in leadership like Schumer
I tend to go with his side in this conflict ever since I watched a bunch of Democrats with their stupid little paddle board signs at the speech. That was truly pathetic!
And people wonder why democrats look weak and lose
I’ve been cheering on David Hogg for years. Contribute regularly to Leaders We Deserve, supported Representative Frost, looking forward to the future in hands of younger people. Just like I support Wonkette! 💙💙💙🩵💜💚❤️