Literally WTF. This is a local government meeting so why is any invocation necessary.
I don't remember having invocations at the twice weekly staff meetings when I (briefly) had a j*b and local governments are basically just business meetings.
And if you have to call in a deity to resolve whether or not to fund a new set of swings at the parks then you are obviously incapable of doing your job.
Good. Religion, as well as atheism, should be a personal choice. And in a seculat setting, religion of any kind should not--no, must not--be forced on anyone.
Gov. Kevin Stitt, sweety, Satan has already established a foothold in 'Christians' like you, who preach a doctrine of hating and hurting anyone who isn't like you. Satan loves you guys.
I keep saying that Tulsa is liberal. It's a good place to live, and we can always use more liberals in Oklahoma. It wouldn't take much to turn Oklahoma sapphire blue. Turn Oklahoma, and you turn the entire Midwest.
Ta, Robyn. If someone wants to pray before a meal (or whatever), I don't mind, until they -- knowing they're about to eat in the company of a Jew -- say, "In Jesus's name." I had to tell one person how totally offensive that is. Speaking of Jews, we have a tradition of silent prayer. It's called Amidah.
It doesn't seem that someone who wants to say a personal prayer before their meal is targeting everyone there who has a different religion (or none at all). This may just be one of their religious practices.
However, for someone of a different religion to blame and shame the pray-er and assume the prayer was actually a personal attack on themselves seems loony. Sometimes a prayer is just a prayer. As for your mention of Jews having a tradition of silent prayer, are you suggesting this practice should be imposed on everyone there?
I have never objected to anyone’s method of prayer, and would never force my beliefs on someone else. This was about ONE specific person with whom I lunched. The first two times I said nothing. The third I reminded him that not everyone prays in Jesus’s name, and said it was inappropriate, considering the company.
I’m thinking this would probably be covered by the verses where ol’ woke Jesus tells people not to pray “standing on the street corner like hypocrites, where everyone can see them” but instead to do their praying privately.
But then these assholes don’t listen to anything else Jesus taught. Why should this be any different?
I think it's apples and oranges. Saying a prayer over one's own meal seems pretty private to me. For some people it is normal practice and there is no reason to forbid it.
I don’t have any problem with saying a prayer over your meal as long as you can do it while I eat. But that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re not talking about saying a prayer over one’s own meal. We’re talking about a religious ceremony being forced on people attending a secular event. Do whatever you like on your own, but there’s no reason other people should be forced to endure your religious ceremony at a government function.
To be honest, as an atheist, I can’t see any difference between a Christian invocation and the one given by the Strawberry Fields Moon Pie lady. It all sounds like nonsense to me.
I don't mind other people's religions unless they try to impose them on me. And I'd say that any religious speech should be judge by its content more than its delivery. If it urges peace, love, and nice stuff, it's okay. If it condemns anyone else's beliefs, it's bad.
"“Sometimes … we have student groups that come through"
There's the answer that Gov. Kevin Stitt (R-Asswad), and State Superintendent of Schools Ryan Walters (R-Dipshitsville) need. If students sometimes come through the Tulsa City Council chambers, then just designate the chambers as an auxiliary educational facility (teaching Civics and political theory. This way, the Tulsa Councilpeople can't prevent the Pseudochristians from a placement of the Ten Commandments and "Christian" invocations.
A complex problem with a simple solution, except:
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
These "Warriors of G-d" need to learn one more valuable life lesson:
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal
-----
"Council Chairman Phil Lakin assured people that this does not mean that people will not be able to pray at meetings — it just means that they will not be led in prayer by anyone else and can instead recite their own prayers to themselves, in their own minds, without bothering anyone."
But... but... but... how is anyone to know that you're a good Christian if you can't go around praying out loud at public events? And how will these fine folk know how to pray if there isn't someone in front of them telling them what to say/think/believe?
You made it through an entire article about the state of Oklahoma without a single reference to the work of Rodgers and Hammerstein. Well, a single one, sorta. But Tulsa is also the home of ORU, whose namesake always sounded to me like some obscure sex act.
Literally WTF. This is a local government meeting so why is any invocation necessary.
I don't remember having invocations at the twice weekly staff meetings when I (briefly) had a j*b and local governments are basically just business meetings.
And if you have to call in a deity to resolve whether or not to fund a new set of swings at the parks then you are obviously incapable of doing your job.
Good. Religion, as well as atheism, should be a personal choice. And in a seculat setting, religion of any kind should not--no, must not--be forced on anyone.
Sometimes my city gets it right. Sometimes.
"In fact, the only people who believe in the Literal Christian Satan are Christians."
Game knows game.
Gov. Kevin Stitt, sweety, Satan has already established a foothold in 'Christians' like you, who preach a doctrine of hating and hurting anyone who isn't like you. Satan loves you guys.
I keep saying that Tulsa is liberal. It's a good place to live, and we can always use more liberals in Oklahoma. It wouldn't take much to turn Oklahoma sapphire blue. Turn Oklahoma, and you turn the entire Midwest.
At one time, Oklahoma was like the most socialist state or something. I don't recall the specifics, but Jenk Jones had a talk about it.
During the Great Depression and Dust Bowl, Oklahoma was very socialist. But many of the states in the Midwest were socialist at that time.
Also they will pay you $10,000 to live in Tulsa and work remotely. And you get meet-ups, woot.
Ta, Robyn. If someone wants to pray before a meal (or whatever), I don't mind, until they -- knowing they're about to eat in the company of a Jew -- say, "In Jesus's name." I had to tell one person how totally offensive that is. Speaking of Jews, we have a tradition of silent prayer. It's called Amidah.
It doesn't seem that someone who wants to say a personal prayer before their meal is targeting everyone there who has a different religion (or none at all). This may just be one of their religious practices.
However, for someone of a different religion to blame and shame the pray-er and assume the prayer was actually a personal attack on themselves seems loony. Sometimes a prayer is just a prayer. As for your mention of Jews having a tradition of silent prayer, are you suggesting this practice should be imposed on everyone there?
I have never objected to anyone’s method of prayer, and would never force my beliefs on someone else. This was about ONE specific person with whom I lunched. The first two times I said nothing. The third I reminded him that not everyone prays in Jesus’s name, and said it was inappropriate, considering the company.
I’m thinking this would probably be covered by the verses where ol’ woke Jesus tells people not to pray “standing on the street corner like hypocrites, where everyone can see them” but instead to do their praying privately.
But then these assholes don’t listen to anything else Jesus taught. Why should this be any different?
I think it's apples and oranges. Saying a prayer over one's own meal seems pretty private to me. For some people it is normal practice and there is no reason to forbid it.
I don’t have any problem with saying a prayer over your meal as long as you can do it while I eat. But that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re not talking about saying a prayer over one’s own meal. We’re talking about a religious ceremony being forced on people attending a secular event. Do whatever you like on your own, but there’s no reason other people should be forced to endure your religious ceremony at a government function.
That's awesome! 👏🏼 Enlightened minds win over tiny brains! 😂
To be honest, as an atheist, I can’t see any difference between a Christian invocation and the one given by the Strawberry Fields Moon Pie lady. It all sounds like nonsense to me.
I don't mind other people's religions unless they try to impose them on me. And I'd say that any religious speech should be judge by its content more than its delivery. If it urges peace, love, and nice stuff, it's okay. If it condemns anyone else's beliefs, it's bad.
I don’t mind other people’s religion. I think it all sounds like nonsense.
I like moon pies a lot!
Well, good on Tulsa. I'm proud of them for learning instead of just reacting (badly).
"“Sometimes … we have student groups that come through"
There's the answer that Gov. Kevin Stitt (R-Asswad), and State Superintendent of Schools Ryan Walters (R-Dipshitsville) need. If students sometimes come through the Tulsa City Council chambers, then just designate the chambers as an auxiliary educational facility (teaching Civics and political theory. This way, the Tulsa Councilpeople can't prevent the Pseudochristians from a placement of the Ten Commandments and "Christian" invocations.
A complex problem with a simple solution, except:
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
These "Warriors of G-d" need to learn one more valuable life lesson:
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal
-----
"Council Chairman Phil Lakin assured people that this does not mean that people will not be able to pray at meetings — it just means that they will not be led in prayer by anyone else and can instead recite their own prayers to themselves, in their own minds, without bothering anyone."
But... but... but... how is anyone to know that you're a good Christian if you can't go around praying out loud at public events? And how will these fine folk know how to pray if there isn't someone in front of them telling them what to say/think/believe?
fnord
So now the Tulsa City council opens like a Friends Meeting?
Not sure that's progress
I thought Friends meetings opened with a relationship update from Ross and Rachel and a moment of silence for Chandler.
It should start like an AA meeting. "Hi I'm councilwoman Jill." crowd: "Hi, Jill".
O/T: From "Girl with the Dogs", Downie, the Pomeranian-Chihuahua mix, gets a spa day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGl0xz0LzhY&ab_channel=GirlWithTheDogs
You made it through an entire article about the state of Oklahoma without a single reference to the work of Rodgers and Hammerstein. Well, a single one, sorta. But Tulsa is also the home of ORU, whose namesake always sounded to me like some obscure sex act.
Trouble, oh we got trouble,
Right here in River City!
With a capital "T"
That rhymes with "P"
And that stands for Prayer,
That stands for prayer.
We've surely got trouble!
Right here in River City,
Right here!
Gotta figure out a way
To keep the young ones moral after school!
Trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble...