One of my all-time favorite musicals is 𝘏𝘰𝘸 𝘵𝘰 𝘚𝘶𝘤𝘤𝘦𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘉𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘞𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘙𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘛𝘳𝘺𝘪𝘯𝘨, a Pulitzer Prize winning satire of post-war American corporate mentality - as well as an unintended tribute to Imposter Syndrome.
One of the highlights is the song "A Secretary is Not a Toy," which was quite woke by 1960s standards. Also has some typically amazing Bob Fosse choreography.
I think I referenced it in something recently, but Megan Mullally's version of "Happy To Keep His Dinner Warm" is a jam. (Coincidentally, she was also in the musical remake of Young Frankenstein)
Last night the hubby and I were watching the Ted Bundy documentary on Prime and the program got into the whole women's rights and abortion rights fight in the early '70s (a probable reason for male rage against women, which seems to have been festering for fifty years now). While I felt a bit sad about the comparison between the hopefulness of that time versus the helpless reality of now, even my husband shook his head and said, "Wow, everything those women fought for and won back then, now getting taken away by Republicans and even Republican WOMEN are okay with it..." And here I thought my American rantings were falling on semi-deaf British ears (because he has to listen to it all the time).
Blazing Saddles is a stone cold classic. Madeleine Kahn, Gene Wilder and Slim Pickens absolutely knocked it out of the park. It definitely couldn't be made today - no amount of hilariousness or obvious satirical messaging would make repeated use of the n word by lots of white people acceptable.
It was because of movies like "Blazing Saddles" that we elevated our racist, sexist consciousness. I watched some old episodes of "Will & Grace" from the early oughts and was appalled by the homophobic anti-semetic jokes. But, it was because of "Will & Grace" that those jokes are considered homophobic and anti-semetic and we've moved on to other types of humor. It is because of the "Big Bang" theory that we reject stereotyping of autism and more widely accept the quirky behavior of others.
It isn't because our culture has evolved too far. It is a good thing that we have evolved this far and while those shows are badly dated for their pop cultural references and the targets of their humor, it is a good thing. One we can look back on and say, yes that is objectively funny, but it is offensive, and I'm glad we're past it.
I think things can be offensive and funny at the same time. I would go even further: We need jokes and comedy about offensive things so we can engage with the subject and discuss it without self-censorship. It allows us to air our dirty laundry instead of hiding it while it rots.
"Jerry Seinfeld". JFC. Leftists have "ruined comedy". I mean, you can hardly say, "I ain't riding homo" when calling out your position in the front seat of a pickup, without ppl getting all up in your face. Or comment on who are the "bad drivers", or "good at math" etc and etc. JS is the snowflake here. Times change. People evolve. Figure it the fuck out. Go be wealthy quietly somewhere Jer.
Mel Brooks is the key to all this stuff. The question is, could anybody other than Mel ever have made or will make in the future comedy like what he created. I'm waiting.
One of the best parody Westerns ever produced. But you're probably right about it being put out today. Even back then, when it first was shown on broadcast TV, they muted the fart scene........
I believe the N word was actually in the televised version......different times ......I grew up immersed in that shit growing up......left on my 18th B'day, never looked back....
One of the nostalgia channels had the Maude abortion episodes on over the weekend. Unfortunately, I only caught the last couple of minutes of the second part.
"One thing I notice from these people who expound on things that could or couldn’t be made now is that that practically none of them have an actual story of “See, we tried to do this thing and it would have been amazing, but we weren’t allowed to distribute it because it would have offended people!” It’s always pure speculation."
Sorry, but this argument doesn't hold water. While Mr Lear tried to get a live version on the air, and failed, myriad old tv shows have never tried a one and done revival of any episodes; so, of course, rejections would speculative.
Here's a few shows that would never be green lit today, or at least imo:
* The first that comes to my old brain is "That Was The Week That Was," or affectionately referred to as TW3. It might work on Comedy Central, but was so irreverent that it is almost guaranteed to be offensive to many of today's snowflakes;
* There is likely a long list of episodes of "The Twilight Zone" that played up stereotypes;
* Hogan's Heroes if for no other reason than that shows with Nazis as central characters won't fly. Plus, the portrayal of a Colonel in any army as a bumbling fool would likely be offensive to people who have made the military their career. And that favorite bugaboo of the "Progressives," cultural appropriation: John (born Johann) Banner, who played Sgt Schultz, was a Polish Jew who escaped right before the Anschluss of Poland;
* "The Three Stooges." 'nuff said.
Never mind just "Blazing Saddles" but pretty much every Mel Brooks movie. (I don't care, I still find them funny.)
So basically your argument boils down to "I'm convinced these shows and movies that I love could never be made today, so obviously they wouldn't, and I don't care about the example you provide so I'm going to dismiss it as irrelevant."
Cool.
Also, Mel Brooks once said, and I paraphrase, "without the Jews, Blacks, and Gays there would be no Hollywood." Funny how the "OMG cAnCEl cUltUre set never seems to draw from that one.
No, my argument boils down to there are many shows from the '70s and earlier would *also* strike nerves. There is no doubt that Mr Lear pushed the boundaries of what was "acceptable," as well as lots of people's buttons; he played a major role in bursting the bubbles of white suburbia. Life is much more than a green lawn, trimmed hedges and backyard bar-b-qs. "Maude" was an integral part of his portfolio -- if you will. "The Jeffersons" was the first show that I recall that was about a successful, upwardly mobile family of color. "One Day at a Time" opened people's eyes to the travails of being a single mother.
I don't say that the abortion episode is irrelevant, because it isn't.
My point was simply that there are other shows that would also meet the criteria, but whether or not that is a truism *is* speculation since no one (at least that I know of or heard about, not that I run around in those circles) is even spitballing pitches to resurrect them. Actually, this whole hypothetical has tweaked something in me and now I wonder what other revamps -- on video, live, or "taped before a live studio audience" -- are in the proverbial closet just waiting....
Two more shows to consider:
* A "Hee-Haw" update might get a trial run on CMT; but I doubt it. any shows would have to be brought up to "today's sensibilities," which, frankly, would make the show a weak sauce version of the Grand Ol' Opry;
* Rowan & Martin's Laugh-in would also lose in translation. Never mind that Rowan and Martin have moved on, it wouldn't matter because it was basically ensemble sketches. The show was misogynistic (a younger sibling was transfixed on Goldie Hawn dancing in a bikini and used -- again -- cultural appropriation with Arte Johnson playing a German, with a dime store accent.
Sorry for the long reply. I rarely do things "nice... and easy"
Remakes of both 𝘏𝘦𝘦-𝘏𝘢𝘸! and 𝘙𝘰𝘸𝘢𝘯 & 𝘔𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘯'𝘴 𝘓𝘢𝘶𝘨𝘩-𝘐𝘯 were tried. And both didn't do well because, simply, "times have changed." Today's country music is mostly pop music with steel guitars and fake Southern accents, and only the thinnest veneer of "country" is considered acceptable by record company suits. And the reboot of 𝘓𝘢𝘶𝘨𝘩-𝘐𝘯 (featuring a young Robin Williams, IIRC) didn't succeed because what was considered "hip" by late 1960s Madison Avenue standards was superseded by actually edgy shows like 𝘚𝘢𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘥𝘢𝘺 𝘕𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘓𝘪𝘷𝘦.
I mean, 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘓𝘢𝘸𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘞𝘦𝘭𝘬 𝘚𝘩𝘰𝘸 is still seen on damn near every PBS station in the US, but I don't hear anyone clamoring for a remake of THAT!
Thank you. I was unaware of the attempts to resurrect those shows (a TIL moment for me).
"Today's country music is mostly pop music with steel guitars and fake Southern accents, and only the thinnest veneer of "country" is considered acceptable by record company suits."
True, that. Who'da thought Beyoncé would top the Country Music charts?
It doesn't sound like Lear tried very hard. He went to ABC, but there are other networks and streaming.
The other problem is casting. The characters are so tied to the actors who portrayed them, it has to be hard to find someone to take their place. I mean who thought Woody would be believable as Archie?
I'm talking about subject matter mainly. She was divorced, her daughter divorced, she was liberal in a way that wasn't depicted in situation comedy very often.
I'm not saying it wasn't great TV, it was just pretty extreme for the time.
CBS didn't want to air the famous "That's My Boy??" episode of "The Dick Van Dyke Show" (in which Rob thinks babies were switched at the hospital). Sheldon Leonard forced their hand; it ended up winning a writing Emmy and is still one of the best-remembered sitcom episodes in history.
As much as I love that one, it always makes me feel icky when I realize the episode only "works" because we (the audience) are expected to spend 20 minutes mentally picturing the other couple as white folks.
It's like the big closing argument at the end of "A Time to Kill," when he encourages the jury to picture the murdered little girl, before asking them to picture her as white.
“Or who complain that people on the left ‘hate half the country’ when the policies we support help everyone, including them, and the policies that they support help no one and specifically punish people for belonging to groups that they don’t like.”
I watched the clip 3 times but cannot make out the final word. I even put on subtitles, and it leaves the last word out.
Little help here?
Thanks JC from NC. Got it.
One of my all-time favorite musicals is 𝘏𝘰𝘸 𝘵𝘰 𝘚𝘶𝘤𝘤𝘦𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘉𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘞𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘙𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘛𝘳𝘺𝘪𝘯𝘨, a Pulitzer Prize winning satire of post-war American corporate mentality - as well as an unintended tribute to Imposter Syndrome.
One of the highlights is the song "A Secretary is Not a Toy," which was quite woke by 1960s standards. Also has some typically amazing Bob Fosse choreography.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-J_KuNqWhw
Could that musical made again? Yes, it has, with some script rewrites to take out the more dated references.
I think I referenced it in something recently, but Megan Mullally's version of "Happy To Keep His Dinner Warm" is a jam. (Coincidentally, she was also in the musical remake of Young Frankenstein)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhUE6rOx50s
Last night the hubby and I were watching the Ted Bundy documentary on Prime and the program got into the whole women's rights and abortion rights fight in the early '70s (a probable reason for male rage against women, which seems to have been festering for fifty years now). While I felt a bit sad about the comparison between the hopefulness of that time versus the helpless reality of now, even my husband shook his head and said, "Wow, everything those women fought for and won back then, now getting taken away by Republicans and even Republican WOMEN are okay with it..." And here I thought my American rantings were falling on semi-deaf British ears (because he has to listen to it all the time).
Blazing Saddles is a stone cold classic. Madeleine Kahn, Gene Wilder and Slim Pickens absolutely knocked it out of the park. It definitely couldn't be made today - no amount of hilariousness or obvious satirical messaging would make repeated use of the n word by lots of white people acceptable.
IIRC, the "You know.... morons" line was ad-libbed by Gene Wilder, and Cleavon Little's cracking up is genuine.
It was because of movies like "Blazing Saddles" that we elevated our racist, sexist consciousness. I watched some old episodes of "Will & Grace" from the early oughts and was appalled by the homophobic anti-semetic jokes. But, it was because of "Will & Grace" that those jokes are considered homophobic and anti-semetic and we've moved on to other types of humor. It is because of the "Big Bang" theory that we reject stereotyping of autism and more widely accept the quirky behavior of others.
It isn't because our culture has evolved too far. It is a good thing that we have evolved this far and while those shows are badly dated for their pop cultural references and the targets of their humor, it is a good thing. One we can look back on and say, yes that is objectively funny, but it is offensive, and I'm glad we're past it.
I think things can be offensive and funny at the same time. I would go even further: We need jokes and comedy about offensive things so we can engage with the subject and discuss it without self-censorship. It allows us to air our dirty laundry instead of hiding it while it rots.
Lenny Bruce has stumbled into the chat.
"Jerry Seinfeld". JFC. Leftists have "ruined comedy". I mean, you can hardly say, "I ain't riding homo" when calling out your position in the front seat of a pickup, without ppl getting all up in your face. Or comment on who are the "bad drivers", or "good at math" etc and etc. JS is the snowflake here. Times change. People evolve. Figure it the fuck out. Go be wealthy quietly somewhere Jer.
User name checks out.
Ta, Robyn.
"Every few months, some douchebag comes along to make the grand pronouncement that Blazing Saddles could not be made today, for reasons of “woke.”
It certainly seems like it. These people must have been living under a rock for the last 50 years.
No shortage of douchebags in Trump's Amerikkka.
"We couldn't make it then, either. But we did." -- Mel Brooks
Mel Brooks is the key to all this stuff. The question is, could anybody other than Mel ever have made or will make in the future comedy like what he created. I'm waiting.
One of the best parody Westerns ever produced. But you're probably right about it being put out today. Even back then, when it first was shown on broadcast TV, they muted the fart scene........
What about when Clevon held the gun on himself. Didn't he say "no one move or the (redacted) gets it"?
I believe the N word was actually in the televised version......different times ......I grew up immersed in that shit growing up......left on my 18th B'day, never looked back....
Blazing Saddles couldn't be made today because it has already been made and no one could improve on it and it would bomb at the box office.
No one has remade Monty Python and the Holy Grail for the same reasons.
Morons
fucking Splitters!
One of the nostalgia channels had the Maude abortion episodes on over the weekend. Unfortunately, I only caught the last couple of minutes of the second part.
Thanks as always, Robyn.
It could be an interesting TV anthology for a show to do a live performances of episodes from classic old shows.
Fonzie could jump a shark for realz.
"One thing I notice from these people who expound on things that could or couldn’t be made now is that that practically none of them have an actual story of “See, we tried to do this thing and it would have been amazing, but we weren’t allowed to distribute it because it would have offended people!” It’s always pure speculation."
Sorry, but this argument doesn't hold water. While Mr Lear tried to get a live version on the air, and failed, myriad old tv shows have never tried a one and done revival of any episodes; so, of course, rejections would speculative.
Here's a few shows that would never be green lit today, or at least imo:
* The first that comes to my old brain is "That Was The Week That Was," or affectionately referred to as TW3. It might work on Comedy Central, but was so irreverent that it is almost guaranteed to be offensive to many of today's snowflakes;
* There is likely a long list of episodes of "The Twilight Zone" that played up stereotypes;
* Hogan's Heroes if for no other reason than that shows with Nazis as central characters won't fly. Plus, the portrayal of a Colonel in any army as a bumbling fool would likely be offensive to people who have made the military their career. And that favorite bugaboo of the "Progressives," cultural appropriation: John (born Johann) Banner, who played Sgt Schultz, was a Polish Jew who escaped right before the Anschluss of Poland;
* "The Three Stooges." 'nuff said.
Never mind just "Blazing Saddles" but pretty much every Mel Brooks movie. (I don't care, I still find them funny.)
fnord
F Troop?
"Yeah, no."
But we could get real Injuns this time.
"Get outta here while you can!"
I mean, even the theme song...
"Where paleface and redskin both turn chicken"
So basically your argument boils down to "I'm convinced these shows and movies that I love could never be made today, so obviously they wouldn't, and I don't care about the example you provide so I'm going to dismiss it as irrelevant."
Cool.
Also, Mel Brooks once said, and I paraphrase, "without the Jews, Blacks, and Gays there would be no Hollywood." Funny how the "OMG cAnCEl cUltUre set never seems to draw from that one.
No, my argument boils down to there are many shows from the '70s and earlier would *also* strike nerves. There is no doubt that Mr Lear pushed the boundaries of what was "acceptable," as well as lots of people's buttons; he played a major role in bursting the bubbles of white suburbia. Life is much more than a green lawn, trimmed hedges and backyard bar-b-qs. "Maude" was an integral part of his portfolio -- if you will. "The Jeffersons" was the first show that I recall that was about a successful, upwardly mobile family of color. "One Day at a Time" opened people's eyes to the travails of being a single mother.
I don't say that the abortion episode is irrelevant, because it isn't.
My point was simply that there are other shows that would also meet the criteria, but whether or not that is a truism *is* speculation since no one (at least that I know of or heard about, not that I run around in those circles) is even spitballing pitches to resurrect them. Actually, this whole hypothetical has tweaked something in me and now I wonder what other revamps -- on video, live, or "taped before a live studio audience" -- are in the proverbial closet just waiting....
Two more shows to consider:
* A "Hee-Haw" update might get a trial run on CMT; but I doubt it. any shows would have to be brought up to "today's sensibilities," which, frankly, would make the show a weak sauce version of the Grand Ol' Opry;
* Rowan & Martin's Laugh-in would also lose in translation. Never mind that Rowan and Martin have moved on, it wouldn't matter because it was basically ensemble sketches. The show was misogynistic (a younger sibling was transfixed on Goldie Hawn dancing in a bikini and used -- again -- cultural appropriation with Arte Johnson playing a German, with a dime store accent.
Sorry for the long reply. I rarely do things "nice... and easy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzQnPz6TpGc
fnord
Remakes of both 𝘏𝘦𝘦-𝘏𝘢𝘸! and 𝘙𝘰𝘸𝘢𝘯 & 𝘔𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘯'𝘴 𝘓𝘢𝘶𝘨𝘩-𝘐𝘯 were tried. And both didn't do well because, simply, "times have changed." Today's country music is mostly pop music with steel guitars and fake Southern accents, and only the thinnest veneer of "country" is considered acceptable by record company suits. And the reboot of 𝘓𝘢𝘶𝘨𝘩-𝘐𝘯 (featuring a young Robin Williams, IIRC) didn't succeed because what was considered "hip" by late 1960s Madison Avenue standards was superseded by actually edgy shows like 𝘚𝘢𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘥𝘢𝘺 𝘕𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘓𝘪𝘷𝘦.
I mean, 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘓𝘢𝘸𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘞𝘦𝘭𝘬 𝘚𝘩𝘰𝘸 is still seen on damn near every PBS station in the US, but I don't hear anyone clamoring for a remake of THAT!
Thank you. I was unaware of the attempts to resurrect those shows (a TIL moment for me).
"Today's country music is mostly pop music with steel guitars and fake Southern accents, and only the thinnest veneer of "country" is considered acceptable by record company suits."
True, that. Who'da thought Beyoncé would top the Country Music charts?
fnord
It doesn't sound like Lear tried very hard. He went to ABC, but there are other networks and streaming.
The other problem is casting. The characters are so tied to the actors who portrayed them, it has to be hard to find someone to take their place. I mean who thought Woody would be believable as Archie?
Possible because even as the show waso riginally on CBsS the rights may now be held by the right-wing run Disney, which owns ABBC
Thank you for adding to the post with other examples. I appreciate it when others are able to fill out a comment with further details (no sarc).
fnord
Everything about Maude was batshit crazy for the 1970's. I can't believe my mother let my 8-11 yo self watch it.
Not in the least "batshit crazy," except maybe for an 8-11 year old.
I'm talking about subject matter mainly. She was divorced, her daughter divorced, she was liberal in a way that wasn't depicted in situation comedy very often.
I'm not saying it wasn't great TV, it was just pretty extreme for the time.
CBS didn't want to air the famous "That's My Boy??" episode of "The Dick Van Dyke Show" (in which Rob thinks babies were switched at the hospital). Sheldon Leonard forced their hand; it ended up winning a writing Emmy and is still one of the best-remembered sitcom episodes in history.
As much as I love that one, it always makes me feel icky when I realize the episode only "works" because we (the audience) are expected to spend 20 minutes mentally picturing the other couple as white folks.
It's like the big closing argument at the end of "A Time to Kill," when he encourages the jury to picture the murdered little girl, before asking them to picture her as white.
“Or who complain that people on the left ‘hate half the country’ when the policies we support help everyone, including them, and the policies that they support help no one and specifically punish people for belonging to groups that they don’t like.”
Thank you for putting this so perfectly.