100% among WA Supreme Court justices. They looked at a study that found that if a murder drew the death penalty it had nothing to do with the crime, but only you-know-what. The state did their best to poke holes in it and didn't convince anybody. Not actually repealed yet, but there's no way to sentence someone to death in WA.
For those (policy makers) who support the death penalty - why is it so hard to understand that the danger of executing the innocent is a REAL F*CKING DANGER? I say - IF you support the death penalty - and lord knows, you don't have to - restrict it to open-and-shut cases. Gacys. Dahmers. Littles. Ridgways. Not some drug-dealer beef. Not some convenience store robbery gone wrong.
"Not some drug-dealer beef. Not some convenience store robbery gone wrong.
Why is that so hard?"
BECAUSE RACISM.
Why do you think both Ronnie Raygun and Donald Trump have always been on the "they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime" mantra -- just like Mussolini (and Hitler)?
Professor Sherrilyn Ifill was just on with Jen Psaki and the central topic of the conversation was
"We have to get better as a country at spotting this pattern of rhetoric when it happens."
In my view ... it's not so hard. But plenty of people, including right wing policy makers, don't WANT to see that.
Besides the fact that innocent people do get sentenced to death, and pricks like DeSantis refuse to grant clemency even when a man has been proven innocent after years in the joint, there is also the fact that prosecutors not infrequently lie in their teeth to get convictions.
scratch a Republican, find a racist who clings like a shipwrecked sailor to a life vest to the old, old lie that black people commit a solid majority of crimes in this country. No matter how many times it is disproven by statistics compiled by the FBI and so on, this is what they believe. This is why a grossly disproportionate number of black people are incarcerated, and a disproportionate number of death row inmates as well. Therefore, they just wish the states would follow Texas' criminal example and ramp up the death machine.
It brings to mind a medical conundrum that has puzzled me for years, For centuries, physicians treated syphilus with mercury in various forms and ways, none of which could possibly have any affect on the disease but with plenty of dire side affects. Why?
The rhetoric of "justice" and "closure" that we (the media) sell to a gullible public bears much of the blame. Relatives of murder victims expect catharsis from state-sanctioned executions and then wonder why their grief persists. Killing another person never solves the pain. Ask any combat-experienced soldier--especially the ones most reluctant to talk.
I have friends who did a couple Peace Corps gigs way back in Central African Republic (CAR) and Puerto Rico. One was talking about how one institutional thing or other in PR was messed up and the other chimed in “not CAR messed up.” And here we are, the USA. Damn.
Oh I think that 47% believes those sentenced to death, even if exonerated, were "no angels" so even if it's unfair they probably deserved it.
For a significant portion, the racial balance is a feature, not a bug. I am sure a nonzero percentage of that 47% would tell you that Black people are executed more because they're innately criminal. I can *guarantee* that line would come up.
My firm used to do court appointed death penalty defense. The death penalty is so much more expensive than life without parole or a long sentence, between the legal defense fees, multiple appeals, healthcare, housing a prisoner for decades in solitary, who might not be a danger to other inmates, etc. You'd think Fiscal Conservatives would like that, and abortion, because American babies take $100,000s to raise, but it's all about punishment for them.
Almost all, although I know of a few (too few) people who at least have a "consistitant life ethic"... yeah, anti-abortion, but also anti-death penalty. I've asked anti-abortion people if they put any work into fighting the DP, and usually just get blank stares or mumble-mumble something about "priorities".
They talk in terms of “innocent life,” as if there is such a thing as “guilty life.” In other words, they claim they know who deserves to live and who deserves to die. They can go fuck themselves.
I'm anti death penalty, but I do believe in life without parole. For me the main issue is the death penalty is a power I'm unwilling to trust any government with.
I think that there are very few people who are irredeemable. Not zero, but rehabilitation and aging can make life without parole very rare. Unfortunately here in the US, we don't do rehabilitation.
I'm not even sure about that. If, at least in theory, the point of imprisonment is rehabilitation and isolation, is there any sense in keeping someone who commits murder when they are 25 in prison when they are 75, and very unlikely to be in any condition to kill anyone?
The tools of murder are ubiquitous and plentiful. I don't think a society should seek to punish, but it does have an obligation to protect its citizens.
The death penalty is just thinly veiled revenge. Life in prison leaves open the possibility the person was unfairly tried and could be released.
And 90% of Americans want gun reform, what's your point?
Ta, Robyn. With you all the way.
100% among WA Supreme Court justices. They looked at a study that found that if a murder drew the death penalty it had nothing to do with the crime, but only you-know-what. The state did their best to poke holes in it and didn't convince anybody. Not actually repealed yet, but there's no way to sentence someone to death in WA.
Interesting how much it fluctuates over the last few decades. Low towards the end of 1960’s but the skyrocketing up
For those (policy makers) who support the death penalty - why is it so hard to understand that the danger of executing the innocent is a REAL F*CKING DANGER? I say - IF you support the death penalty - and lord knows, you don't have to - restrict it to open-and-shut cases. Gacys. Dahmers. Littles. Ridgways. Not some drug-dealer beef. Not some convenience store robbery gone wrong.
Why is that so hard?
"Not some drug-dealer beef. Not some convenience store robbery gone wrong.
Why is that so hard?"
BECAUSE RACISM.
Why do you think both Ronnie Raygun and Donald Trump have always been on the "they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime" mantra -- just like Mussolini (and Hitler)?
Professor Sherrilyn Ifill was just on with Jen Psaki and the central topic of the conversation was
"We have to get better as a country at spotting this pattern of rhetoric when it happens."
In my view ... it's not so hard. But plenty of people, including right wing policy makers, don't WANT to see that.
Besides the fact that innocent people do get sentenced to death, and pricks like DeSantis refuse to grant clemency even when a man has been proven innocent after years in the joint, there is also the fact that prosecutors not infrequently lie in their teeth to get convictions.
Uh, because those who support the death penalty only want it applied to Blacks?
scratch a Republican, find a racist who clings like a shipwrecked sailor to a life vest to the old, old lie that black people commit a solid majority of crimes in this country. No matter how many times it is disproven by statistics compiled by the FBI and so on, this is what they believe. This is why a grossly disproportionate number of black people are incarcerated, and a disproportionate number of death row inmates as well. Therefore, they just wish the states would follow Texas' criminal example and ramp up the death machine.
It brings to mind a medical conundrum that has puzzled me for years, For centuries, physicians treated syphilus with mercury in various forms and ways, none of which could possibly have any affect on the disease but with plenty of dire side affects. Why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8&t=7s&pp=ygUVdGhpcnRlZW4gYXZhIGR1dmVybmF5
The rhetoric of "justice" and "closure" that we (the media) sell to a gullible public bears much of the blame. Relatives of murder victims expect catharsis from state-sanctioned executions and then wonder why their grief persists. Killing another person never solves the pain. Ask any combat-experienced soldier--especially the ones most reluctant to talk.
I have friends who did a couple Peace Corps gigs way back in Central African Republic (CAR) and Puerto Rico. One was talking about how one institutional thing or other in PR was messed up and the other chimed in “not CAR messed up.” And here we are, the USA. Damn.
All entirely motivated by knee-jerk, reactive, vicious vindication.
The death penalty is an exercise in sadism.
State-sanctioned murder to satisfy the blood-thirsty while crying about the unborn.
that's how it works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8&t=7s&pp=ygUVdGhpcnRlZW4gYXZhIGR1dmVybmF5
While crying about the fucking ZYGOTES.
Exactly!
Oh I think that 47% believes those sentenced to death, even if exonerated, were "no angels" so even if it's unfair they probably deserved it.
For a significant portion, the racial balance is a feature, not a bug. I am sure a nonzero percentage of that 47% would tell you that Black people are executed more because they're innately criminal. I can *guarantee* that line would come up.
Who said "They're guilty of something"?
Either Donald Trump or Ronnie Raygun
Or Bill Barr or Stephen Miller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8&t=7s&pp=ygUVdGhpcnRlZW4gYXZhIGR1dmVybmF5
it always does, you can make book on it.
OT: Below is dirty post!!!
https://substack.com/profile/76665937-weejee/note/c-44790605?utm_source=notes-share-action&r=19n7td
My firm used to do court appointed death penalty defense. The death penalty is so much more expensive than life without parole or a long sentence, between the legal defense fees, multiple appeals, healthcare, housing a prisoner for decades in solitary, who might not be a danger to other inmates, etc. You'd think Fiscal Conservatives would like that, and abortion, because American babies take $100,000s to raise, but it's all about punishment for them.
My state senator said people who support the death penalty support the one they think we have, not the one we actually have.
They don't give a shit what baybeez take to raise. Love the *fetus*, hate the child, kill the adult.
How many in that 47% consider themselves to be “pro-life”? I’m guessing 100%.
Agreed. Consistency, and rational thought, are not strong suits with this crowd.
Almost all, although I know of a few (too few) people who at least have a "consistitant life ethic"... yeah, anti-abortion, but also anti-death penalty. I've asked anti-abortion people if they put any work into fighting the DP, and usually just get blank stares or mumble-mumble something about "priorities".
They talk in terms of “innocent life,” as if there is such a thing as “guilty life.” In other words, they claim they know who deserves to live and who deserves to die. They can go fuck themselves.
I'm anti death penalty, but I do believe in life without parole. For me the main issue is the death penalty is a power I'm unwilling to trust any government with.
I think that there are very few people who are irredeemable. Not zero, but rehabilitation and aging can make life without parole very rare. Unfortunately here in the US, we don't do rehabilitation.
I'm not even sure about that. If, at least in theory, the point of imprisonment is rehabilitation and isolation, is there any sense in keeping someone who commits murder when they are 25 in prison when they are 75, and very unlikely to be in any condition to kill anyone?
a hard question. it seems most murderers are young white men and they tend to age out of their violent behavior.
The tools of murder are ubiquitous and plentiful. I don't think a society should seek to punish, but it does have an obligation to protect its citizens.
Here's hoping that, one day, we catch up with--sigh--"Kenya, Ghana, Papua New Guinea, Central African Republic, Sierra Leone, and Kazakhstan."