I. Just. Can't. When I was 13, I asked my mother, of blessed and cursed memory, what our lives would be like if we lived in Israel. She answered, "Well, in a few years you'd join the army and pick up a machine gun and kill Arabs." I answered, "How would I tell them from us?" meaning me, who unlike my mother is not a pale redhead. She did not answer. She probably knew that women who joined the army did not machine gun Arabs, but she was a drama queen.
The actions of Hamas seem like self-defeating lunacy. Have they issued a proclamation of what their aims are? Will we ever see it in the US news media.
Goad Isreal into an overreaction. Use the overreaction to recruit disenfranchised Palestinians to carry out the next attack in response to the reaction to this attack.
The leadership is never there, never on the ground, never leading from the front. They're always tucked away safe somewhere else but they need footsoldiers. This is how they get those footsoldiers.
There doesn't really need to be a proclamation for that. It's bog standard recruiting for terrorist groups.
Yep. They just United the entire world against them. Right or wrong nobody is feeling sorry for Palestinians right now. Yes I know they aren’t the same thing but the point still holds.
I have a question which may seem very basic because I guess it is. I don't understand the status of the palentinians in Gaza and the West Bank. They are not Israelis - citizens of the State of Israel. But what are they then? Is there a Palestinian State - I don't think so. I understand they do not have visas or passports - that is going to make travel difficult if they decide to flee. Are they the decendents of families who lived there in that region in 1948? Many of that population fled in 1948. But how long had they been there? My impression is that these families had probably been their with their tradition lifestyles for hundreds/ thousands? of years?
Ok. For a version of Israel's formation read Exodus by Leon Uris. While fictional, it gets most of the facts straight and paints the Jews as heroes. Then read The Hajj by Uris. That shows the Palestinian side. You can get pieces the same information elsewhere, but I think this is the most compact and understandable way. I've read much other information, but those 2 books give a look at the people and passions involved. It's a basic foundation. Jonathan Kellerman also wrote about the Palestinians in The Butcher's Theater.
and so what is their status exactly - what is it called. Is this a 'Bantustan' or something like that? Is there a word in international law which defines their status. Or is it all undefined.
So now that Israel is at 'war' with 'them'- (who exactly? Hamas, Gaza?) - will there be the rules of engagement like the Geneva Convention overseeing the conflict? Why will 'the war' be expected to take 'years'? What are the goals.
“#RazPutin is losing very badly in #Ukraine geopolitically. So he asks the #Mullahs of #Iran to broaden the conflict and help reduce #Western-power by attacking #Israel.” ~ #Prigo-zhin’s-ghost, Ex Vivo
I'm not exactly a spring chicken. I've lived through my share of crises, and have learned how to keep things in perspective at least enough to not collapse into a puddle of simpering incoherence whenever the next bad thing happens.
But I have to say, it truly feels as if the world has gone completely off its axis. May we all have the inner resolve to weather this. The days ahead look bleak. I appreciate every one of you on this site.
Bad things are always happening. We just don't always know about them. We know about them now because of computer technology, but we don't have to let them crush us. Step away, ready a book, pet a dog.
Rarely watch OHJB live, as it makes me nervous. Today, he did alright. Only one tangential reference to Beau and, in this case, it was actually fitting.
If I lived in a split county and the more powerful one decided that they would unilaterally confiscate land to built settlements on and squeeze out my people, I would be pissed, too. Why is everyone so surprised Hamas launched an attack? Palestinians are still being given the short end of the stick from Britain's partitioning of Palestine in 1948.
The partition was probably one of history’s dumbest moves and, in the decades since, few of its inequities were resolved. Nonetheless, Palestinians haven’t exactly acquitted themselves nobly, making their primary objective the elimination of the Jews and electing to be governed by a terrorist regime that makes Arafat look like Ghandi.
At the time, the "terrorist regime" was feeding them. I remember the astonishment at the time because the US opposed Hamas but they were elected anyway. So you tell me, who would you would elect? Some big bully or someone feeding your kids?
I agree with the origins of your sentiment but killing children, old people and babies is not “being pissed”. It’s deliberate terrorism for the sake of brutality. There are some rules even when it comes to armed rebellion.
Yeah well Russia did the exact same thing to Ukraine, but now every here is focused on the new shiny atrocity. And it was definitely going to happen in Israel. You cannot keep a people imprisoned forever. Look at China, they have their own solution for the Rohingya.
I'm stopping at the first paragraph. It's only terrorism depending on which side you're on?
Deliberately targeting and laughtering civilians, women, children, the elderly, other noncombatants is terrorism. Full fucking stop.
Anything you say after getting the first thing that utterly wrong is not worth my time. Everything that descends from something that wrong is going to be just a wrong.
It’s interesting that it is coming out that Bibi doesn’t offer solutions and gives money to the enemy and people assume it is to “keep the conflict going” because the first thing I thought of was how this attack allows Bibi to seem powerful and needed.
Actually made me thing of the King from Princess Bride.
This report is horrific. I also remember horrific reports of Kuwaiti infants removed from incubators and thrown to the floor by invading Iraqis c.1990. That earlier report was completely fabricated. Without verified independent reporting, I would rather hope that even murderous terrorist thugs have lines they won't cross out of common humanity. Perhaps I'm dressing up wide-eyes optimism as cynicism.
Me, too. I feel like I've been disconnected (if that's the right word? Idk what is.) from the events unfolding in I/P until this. Now I fully understand the need for total vengeance on the part of the Israelis. If this were my child, I'd burn it all down and salt the ashes. Damn the consequences. I'd want to kill them all. I hate this.
There needs to be another option for recognizing a comment here other than Like, because I do not like and cannot like beheading babies. Hamas' "hearts and minds" campaign sucks.
But I'm sure folks will find a way to say that the Israeli government provoked this. I want to scream, especially in regards to various flavors of leftist saying this.
If you show it to us, we will mourn them as well, but you are bothsiding a visible clear set of premeditated victims with an imaginary possible set of victims.
Not that are being deliberately murdered by the IDF, no. As for the ones who are getting killed because Hamas has a command post in the apartment next door, or has a rocket launcher in the courtyard of the day care center….
Wow, the deflections of leftists. Mentioning a horrible crime of babies being murdered by soldiers and even beheaded, and it's immediately BuT wHaT aBoUt. Learning who are amoral ghouls and antisemites here.
Why is it anti semitic to condemn violence against both the Israeli and Palestinian citizens?. Just as Bibi does not represent the majority of Israeli's, neither does Hamas.
That's disingenuous to say the least. It's on par with noting the horror of 9/11 to then whine about buildings in Saudi Arabia. Ps, he wasn't both sidesing. It was "oh Hamas did a wholly inappropriate crime against humanity, but what about x thing". It's tiresome and often motivated by a hatred of Jews and Israel.
No I'm past "benefit of the doubt" given this matches the pattern of noting a horrible terrorist act against Israelis must be immediately rebutted with pointing to Palestinians. I have no patience or sympathy for those arguments.
No one has done that, that I can see. What some have gently mentioned is that there are babies on both sides who are being horribly murdered for the goals of what? I know many Palestinians who dont give a fuck about what other's religions are. They dont want Hamas doing this in their name. They just dont want to be in this situation. They cant leave , despite what Bibi told them to do. There is no where for them to go. Do you suggest we do not recognize this?
Gotta point out raping, kidnapping, and directly targeting the elderly, women, and children is what evil terrorists do, and there is literally no justification. None.
At the rave-they gang raped women next to the corpses of their friends. One mom called her daughter’s phone-an orc answered and said “I’m raping your daughter.”
I. Just. Can't. When I was 13, I asked my mother, of blessed and cursed memory, what our lives would be like if we lived in Israel. She answered, "Well, in a few years you'd join the army and pick up a machine gun and kill Arabs." I answered, "How would I tell them from us?" meaning me, who unlike my mother is not a pale redhead. She did not answer. She probably knew that women who joined the army did not machine gun Arabs, but she was a drama queen.
Ok, why does the sign language interpreter have to wear a tie??? The women don't.
Also, I read more on Gaza. Sounds reminiscent of Indian reservations in the US.
The actions of Hamas seem like self-defeating lunacy. Have they issued a proclamation of what their aims are? Will we ever see it in the US news media.
Their aims are simple.
Goad Isreal into an overreaction. Use the overreaction to recruit disenfranchised Palestinians to carry out the next attack in response to the reaction to this attack.
The leadership is never there, never on the ground, never leading from the front. They're always tucked away safe somewhere else but they need footsoldiers. This is how they get those footsoldiers.
There doesn't really need to be a proclamation for that. It's bog standard recruiting for terrorist groups.
Yep. They just United the entire world against them. Right or wrong nobody is feeling sorry for Palestinians right now. Yes I know they aren’t the same thing but the point still holds.
I have a question which may seem very basic because I guess it is. I don't understand the status of the palentinians in Gaza and the West Bank. They are not Israelis - citizens of the State of Israel. But what are they then? Is there a Palestinian State - I don't think so. I understand they do not have visas or passports - that is going to make travel difficult if they decide to flee. Are they the decendents of families who lived there in that region in 1948? Many of that population fled in 1948. But how long had they been there? My impression is that these families had probably been their with their tradition lifestyles for hundreds/ thousands? of years?
Ok. For a version of Israel's formation read Exodus by Leon Uris. While fictional, it gets most of the facts straight and paints the Jews as heroes. Then read The Hajj by Uris. That shows the Palestinian side. You can get pieces the same information elsewhere, but I think this is the most compact and understandable way. I've read much other information, but those 2 books give a look at the people and passions involved. It's a basic foundation. Jonathan Kellerman also wrote about the Palestinians in The Butcher's Theater.
and so what is their status exactly - what is it called. Is this a 'Bantustan' or something like that? Is there a word in international law which defines their status. Or is it all undefined.
So now that Israel is at 'war' with 'them'- (who exactly? Hamas, Gaza?) - will there be the rules of engagement like the Geneva Convention overseeing the conflict? Why will 'the war' be expected to take 'years'? What are the goals.
“#RazPutin is losing very badly in #Ukraine geopolitically. So he asks the #Mullahs of #Iran to broaden the conflict and help reduce #Western-power by attacking #Israel.” ~ #Prigo-zhin’s-ghost, Ex Vivo
I'm not exactly a spring chicken. I've lived through my share of crises, and have learned how to keep things in perspective at least enough to not collapse into a puddle of simpering incoherence whenever the next bad thing happens.
But I have to say, it truly feels as if the world has gone completely off its axis. May we all have the inner resolve to weather this. The days ahead look bleak. I appreciate every one of you on this site.
Bad things are always happening. We just don't always know about them. We know about them now because of computer technology, but we don't have to let them crush us. Step away, ready a book, pet a dog.
What Yeats called 'the growing murderousness of the world" - over a hundred years ago.
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Yeah, yeah, nothing new here.
With you on this. Have also seen my share, but things of late seem somehow different, and not in a good way.
Rarely watch OHJB live, as it makes me nervous. Today, he did alright. Only one tangential reference to Beau and, in this case, it was actually fitting.
He already spoke? I guess I missed it.
Right here on this thread, with a few seconds time lapse.
I’m going back and forth looking while working. I’ll have to watch the replay.
If I lived in a split county and the more powerful one decided that they would unilaterally confiscate land to built settlements on and squeeze out my people, I would be pissed, too. Why is everyone so surprised Hamas launched an attack? Palestinians are still being given the short end of the stick from Britain's partitioning of Palestine in 1948.
The partition was probably one of history’s dumbest moves and, in the decades since, few of its inequities were resolved. Nonetheless, Palestinians haven’t exactly acquitted themselves nobly, making their primary objective the elimination of the Jews and electing to be governed by a terrorist regime that makes Arafat look like Ghandi.
At the time, the "terrorist regime" was feeding them. I remember the astonishment at the time because the US opposed Hamas but they were elected anyway. So you tell me, who would you would elect? Some big bully or someone feeding your kids?
we really have to stop saying that the" people of the country" have made a certain decision. Sure, there are small groups that agree with this.
It is the ones who control the country that decide to do these things and are very happy to use their own people and others for their own aims
Just like here in the US, we Democrats disliked being lumped in with the way the world viewed America under Trump.
I agree with the origins of your sentiment but killing children, old people and babies is not “being pissed”. It’s deliberate terrorism for the sake of brutality. There are some rules even when it comes to armed rebellion.
Yeah well Russia did the exact same thing to Ukraine, but now every here is focused on the new shiny atrocity. And it was definitely going to happen in Israel. You cannot keep a people imprisoned forever. Look at China, they have their own solution for the Rohingya.
It's called terrorism. Deliberately targeting women, children, the elderly, and other noncombatants is terrorism.
I'm stopping at the first paragraph. It's only terrorism depending on which side you're on?
Deliberately targeting and laughtering civilians, women, children, the elderly, other noncombatants is terrorism. Full fucking stop.
Anything you say after getting the first thing that utterly wrong is not worth my time. Everything that descends from something that wrong is going to be just a wrong.
It isn't the fact of an attack that's causing the shock, it's the barbarous and pointless nature of it.
Fuck 14 Americans
Good to have the awful update.
What in the ever living FUCK are you talking about?!
They may be dead. The number has been going up, I saw 9, then 11, and now 14.
Or maybe he's just boasting about his weekend plans :-)
Seems to have forgotten a comma.
I think a period after the first word would be better, but yeah.
14 American citizens confirmed dead.
Do not dishonor them like that.
Edit and add a comma, please.
The fuck are you talking about?
there are 2 different ways to read what you wrote. In the current climate it could come across as you denouncing Americans
Andrea Mitchell “both sides” the wrong person
https://www.mediaite.com/news/i-cant-be-sympathetic-israeli-mom-whose-kids-were-taken-by-hamas-goes-off-when-andrea-mitchell-asks-about-attacks-against-gaza/
Wow, that was truly dumb as dirt. Mitchell needs to go and stay home.
Fuck Mitchell.
An hour and a half later... "we will begin shortly"
I think the country wants to hear from the president.
He's on now. He has to be 1000% up to date.
It’s interesting that it is coming out that Bibi doesn’t offer solutions and gives money to the enemy and people assume it is to “keep the conflict going” because the first thing I thought of was how this attack allows Bibi to seem powerful and needed.
Actually made me thing of the King from Princess Bride.
Media bullshit headline progression
Chip Roy says something ridiculous about Biden
“Biden faces scrutiny from Republicans”
Jim Jordan retweets comment
“Biden scrutiny intensifies as others in Congress back Republican claims”
Lauren Boebert and MTG send out competing fundraising tweets regarding issue
“Growing concerns in Congress over whether Biden is up to the job”
Then it always ends with a special interview with a “moderate” like Nancy Mace on a Sunday show.
Anything I say about that kaustic kollection of konfederates at this moment in time is going to get me ban-hammered.
Soldiers are reporting that they’ve found about 40 babies-some of them beheaded.
This report is horrific. I also remember horrific reports of Kuwaiti infants removed from incubators and thrown to the floor by invading Iraqis c.1990. That earlier report was completely fabricated. Without verified independent reporting, I would rather hope that even murderous terrorist thugs have lines they won't cross out of common humanity. Perhaps I'm dressing up wide-eyes optimism as cynicism.
Helpful reminder; thank you!
Oh no no no no no. Absolute horror.
Continued good wishes for your current safety and imminent return home.
the Pod Save The World discord chat is trying to verify this. I so hope this isnt true
Me, too. I feel like I've been disconnected (if that's the right word? Idk what is.) from the events unfolding in I/P until this. Now I fully understand the need for total vengeance on the part of the Israelis. If this were my child, I'd burn it all down and salt the ashes. Damn the consequences. I'd want to kill them all. I hate this.
I can’t upvote. I just can’t even.
There needs to be another option for recognizing a comment here other than Like, because I do not like and cannot like beheading babies. Hamas' "hearts and minds" campaign sucks.
That it involves actual evisceration graphically demonstrates the context of that campaign.
This is a fucking nightmare that has been made manifest and I desperately wish we could wake up and this horror be over.
Yes. Please let this not be true. Please.
But I'm sure folks will find a way to say that the Israeli government provoked this. I want to scream, especially in regards to various flavors of leftist saying this.
I don't hear any news about Palestinian babies. They must not have any, right?
If you show it to us, we will mourn them as well, but you are bothsiding a visible clear set of premeditated victims with an imaginary possible set of victims.
OK, I'll bite. Tell me your solution, as of right now, that involves no further loss of civilian life.
More importantly, HOW exactly do these horrible actions by Hamas make things anything but WORSE for Palestinian babies?
Not that are being deliberately murdered by the IDF, no. As for the ones who are getting killed because Hamas has a command post in the apartment next door, or has a rocket launcher in the courtyard of the day care center….
Wow, the deflections of leftists. Mentioning a horrible crime of babies being murdered by soldiers and even beheaded, and it's immediately BuT wHaT aBoUt. Learning who are amoral ghouls and antisemites here.
Why is it anti semitic to condemn violence against both the Israeli and Palestinian citizens?. Just as Bibi does not represent the majority of Israeli's, neither does Hamas.
That's disingenuous to say the least. It's on par with noting the horror of 9/11 to then whine about buildings in Saudi Arabia. Ps, he wasn't both sidesing. It was "oh Hamas did a wholly inappropriate crime against humanity, but what about x thing". It's tiresome and often motivated by a hatred of Jews and Israel.
I believe Nalano635 was being bitterly, bitingly wry and not brushing that information off as unconfirmed.
I presumed it to be a reference to US media that is notorious for abridging certain varieties of news.
No I'm past "benefit of the doubt" given this matches the pattern of noting a horrible terrorist act against Israelis must be immediately rebutted with pointing to Palestinians. I have no patience or sympathy for those arguments.
No one has done that, that I can see. What some have gently mentioned is that there are babies on both sides who are being horribly murdered for the goals of what? I know many Palestinians who dont give a fuck about what other's religions are. They dont want Hamas doing this in their name. They just dont want to be in this situation. They cant leave , despite what Bibi told them to do. There is no where for them to go. Do you suggest we do not recognize this?
Kind of sounds exactly like what the Russians are doing in Ukraine... Fuck...
I’ve seen reports that the orcs of Hamas got training from the Uruk-hai, ie Grupa Wagner.
Gosh, where could they meet with them? (surely not in Syria!) /s
That would elicit exactly zero surprise.
[engages google to learn a bit more/shudders coldly]
Sometimes I really hate having speculated correctly about some things.
That tracks... ;.>(
Gotta point out raping, kidnapping, and directly targeting the elderly, women, and children is what evil terrorists do, and there is literally no justification. None.
I haven't read any reports of rape-NYTimes, LATimes, The Guardian-where did you read them?
At the rave-they gang raped women next to the corpses of their friends. One mom called her daughter’s phone-an orc answered and said “I’m raping your daughter.”
That is absolutely heinous.
I read that when I was up on the internet in the wee hours of the morning.
There are no words...
OK. Thanks for answering.
It's widely reported. It was part of yesterday's post here on this issue.
You wouldn't think it would be necessary to point that out.
And yet it is so hard for so many to say that without throwing in a "...but..."
And it begins again
Wasn't Garvey the married player who spoke about being a role model and then got two of his girlfriends pregnant at the same time?
Super sperm??
Yup. That's Garvey.