I witnessed something equally creepy on Southwest. My step-mother had just died and I was returning home after dealing with the initial crisis. I was really upset and hadn’t slept well. I was leaving from Oakland Airport. The plane had a happy atmosphere as there were a lot of people getting on the plane to go to a Raiders/Cowboys football game in Dallas. Many of them were Black. The guy across the aisle from me was very chatty and speaking beyond a whisper. He was actually helping to lighten my mood. For some reason we were being delayed…it turns out the head flight attendant had gotten her knickers in a twist because she thought this guy was “talking while being Black”…aka he was speaking too loudly and making people notice him. She took him off the plane (oh, yes she did! And was having Security talk to him!) Meanwhile, we are delayed…I am middle aged short white lady sitting in the aisle surrounded by what had been happy people (most of whom were Black) and when I heard them saying that he got nailed for talking “too loud” and maybe he should have just lain low. I was so utterly furious at what was clearly racial profiling that I got out of my seat and I went to the head flight attendant and said “If you do not allow that gentleman to get back on board I will file a suit against SW and you personally that you were racially profiling this man. I will not let you get away with this”. I then went back to my seat. Within minutes he was back on board. He was rather broken by this (they’d obviously told him to shut up and keep still). I spoke to him casually during the flight to try to cheer him up. That fucking flight attendant came to me before we got off the flight and wanted my name as she was filing a report. Fuck her, she was really scared that I was going to report her to management. I wouldn’t give my name (although she could have gotten it off the manifest anyway, I suppose). I also said I had just come back after dealing with my mother’s death and please do not bother me. I’m still angry when I think about it…but it just shows that even a small gesture from a middle aged short white lady might make a difference.
Thanks to the checklist provided by Southwest Airlines, all child sex traffickers now know to use an adult guide of the same race as the child being trafficked to avoid any suspicion from the airline.
Don't forget that Southwest is the airline where a pilot announced "Let's Go Brandon" before take off and after the incident was brought to the attention of the airline, they refused to discipline the pilot.
So true. It used to be fun with great customer service. I avoid flying them if at all possible. I was stranded in PHX during that first summer fuck up. They did zero to help me get back home (got myself on a stand by flight) and then I had to Tweet just to get a refund and that was 4 months later.
They used also to have nice FAs who were FUNNY (that's totally dead) and a relaxed, friendly atmosphere. They are now infested with MAGAtrash and by far the worst run airline in the country.
Yet another reason not to fly. Ever since 9/11, the entire industry has gone out of its way to make the entire experience as miserable as possible. I guess on the theory that terrorists don’t like to be treated rudely.
On Saturday, Mrs, Monster and I are driving from PA to NC because 9 hours in a car in August is more pleasant than flying.
Plus, two of my cousins came back from vacation this summer with Covid. Planes today are sealed metal tubes filed with all manner of pestilence.
"Planes today are sealed metal tubes filed with all manner of pestilence."
Easy solution, just open a window 😂
For real though, I drove 10+ hours each way with 3 kids last month, and I'm making the same trip solo this weekend, because fuck flying ever again unless I'm crossing an ocean.
Gotta say, I’m not totally opposed to being a bit aggressive when it comes to this shit…it’s very easy for bystanders to say “Well that seems a bit odd, but it’s probably OK…” and let it slide. The cops could have (and may have, the whole story isn’t clear) been perfectly respectful and after a reasonable amount of questioning left them to go on their way. They probably weren’t, because “cops,” but it could have been handled with minimal impact on the family while being sure that there wasn’t something hinky going on. So…take it as a lesson learned: if you see something odd, say something, but not of course if it’s just a racist dogwhistle.
I was in a mixed-race family growing up. Stepfather is British, my mother is Chinese, and I'm half Chinese and half-African American. Oh, and my two siblings are white.
We traveled to Europe in the 1980's and you should have seen the looks we got! But nobody, NOBODY tried to accuse my parents of human trafficking because it was the 1980's and social media hadn't poisoned people's minds yet.
Trump is so objectively vile and racists that in order to be able to worship him anyway (because he is vile and racists) his fans had to find something even worse than him and pretend he stands against it. So basically, they are saying that child sex trafficking is the only thing they could think of worse than Trump.
1. "Traveler does not have any personal luggage." Well, yeah, considering what airlines charge, you're going to have to wear everything you want to being all at once if you don't want to essentially pay for a second seat.
2. "Traveler is not appropriately dressed for travel and/or their destination." So should I be in my PJs, or in a tuxedo, when traveling?
3. "Traveler exhibits fear, anxiety, depression, submission, tension, nervousness and/or avoids eye contact." Have you fucking flown on an airplane in the past 20something years? Fear, anxiety, and depression are the minimum that you can expect, you assholes.
After much consideration I’m of a mind that though the trigger was racial, it might not of necessarily been racist. Would we feel the same way if the attendant was Black? I think that it is possible that the attendant was a victim of the “panic” and an over abundance of caution than actual racism. It is difficult to know what was in her heart and mind but in my (oh so important) judgement and barring other evidence of discriminatory behavior (racist texts, tweets, etc.) I would tend to give the attendant the benefit of the doubt.
I also think that a lawsuit might not be the most effective way of dealing with this, considering that law enforcement only interviewed the mother, and once satisfied, allowed her to continue on her way.
I saw a lady in the local supermarket yesterday, a white lady who was accompanied by two multi-racial kids. A girl about 8 and a boy about 10, well behaved and well groomed. My first thought was that they must have a black father. So what.
On the other hand, just last week a child was kidnapped in my town in CO. Because of quick action by a bus driver and the local police the person who took the child (her father) was stopped several hours later in NM, apprehended, and the child was returned to her mother. This type of kidnapping happens a lot. It happens on planes too.
So what do we do? (To finish your question.)
I think, perhaps, not judge too harshly until we get more complete information. (Which, trust me, we will.)
The problem is, increasing the number of false reports does not have a positive impact on enforcement and starting from a bias will lead to poor outcomes. That is why a policy that puts an investigative task on people who are not trained in investigations is a bad idea. It turns bias into "evidence!" It turns dunning kruger into police encounters. And while it may not seem like a major deal to have the police stop you to see if you are related to your child, it is not. First you have a young child, who thinks their parent is going to be arrested because of something the child did (not the truth, but often what the kid thinks) and second, this wasn't the first time this happened to them. Not specifically an airline attendant accusing the mother of trafficking her own child (although maybe) but making the child prove that her mother is her mother. It adds up. The first time it is annoying, the 10th, the 100th, it gets exhausting and it is always scary when you have to prove to strangers that you are family. Because once the police arrive, they are working from the assumption that you are a criminal. And yes, sometimes they may get it right, but people who aren't operating on racial baises get it right a lot more often so getting rid of a policy that allows racial bias to be the triggering event is not just better from a social justice stand point, but also for protecting actual trafficked children.
So the attendant who reported this may not be a card carrying racist, but they operated under racial biases, which both affirm and are affirmed by any other "evidence" the biased person sees, because they are not trained to be aware of their own biases and account for them. Thus a woman wanting to sit next to her child becomes a woman "demanding" to sit next to her child, which is a pretty normal request even when requested at high volume. But through the lens of, "but they aren't the same race" it becomes nefarious and people don't ask the necessary follow up questions.
As far as not suing, we have limited options to change policies and procedures in private companies. A lawsuit may cost Southwest enough that they will consider an effective policy a better line item than, "but we gave them a list."
and also, Dorothea says "Is it me or does this lady have the crazy eyes?"
But I can't answer because with this new ultra-improved Substack I can't just scroll up and check the lady's eyes, though from what I recall she struck me as rather pretty.
I thought it sounded just like the Cindy McCain - and happened around the same time. That one put me through the roof. Cindy must have forgotten her own adopted daughter who has very dark skin. Or was she trafficking, every time they traveled together? Or was that child left at home when the family went on trips?
Anyway, hope the mother gets enough bucks to put the kid through college.
Oh this will be fun if I my non-neurotypical self has to fly alone with my non-neurotypical daughter. We hit like half of these criteria on a good day. And the odds that she has an ADHD meltdown where she yells at me to get away from her are non zero.
Amtrak at least has a system (armbands with sunflowers on them) that identify people who have conditions that could affect one’s ability to travel alone effortlessly (ADHD, TBI, ASD, dyspraxia, etc) and theoretically provide us help and not Amtrak jail. But we can’t take Amtrak everywhere.
It's like you can have a kid who takes after their other parent's side of the family. What a bizarre idea!
“ “I came in from a trip I’d been on and I spotted — it looked odd — it was a woman of a different ethnicity than the child, ”
So, like a white woman who adopted a child from Indonesia, Cindy McCain?
I witnessed something equally creepy on Southwest. My step-mother had just died and I was returning home after dealing with the initial crisis. I was really upset and hadn’t slept well. I was leaving from Oakland Airport. The plane had a happy atmosphere as there were a lot of people getting on the plane to go to a Raiders/Cowboys football game in Dallas. Many of them were Black. The guy across the aisle from me was very chatty and speaking beyond a whisper. He was actually helping to lighten my mood. For some reason we were being delayed…it turns out the head flight attendant had gotten her knickers in a twist because she thought this guy was “talking while being Black”…aka he was speaking too loudly and making people notice him. She took him off the plane (oh, yes she did! And was having Security talk to him!) Meanwhile, we are delayed…I am middle aged short white lady sitting in the aisle surrounded by what had been happy people (most of whom were Black) and when I heard them saying that he got nailed for talking “too loud” and maybe he should have just lain low. I was so utterly furious at what was clearly racial profiling that I got out of my seat and I went to the head flight attendant and said “If you do not allow that gentleman to get back on board I will file a suit against SW and you personally that you were racially profiling this man. I will not let you get away with this”. I then went back to my seat. Within minutes he was back on board. He was rather broken by this (they’d obviously told him to shut up and keep still). I spoke to him casually during the flight to try to cheer him up. That fucking flight attendant came to me before we got off the flight and wanted my name as she was filing a report. Fuck her, she was really scared that I was going to report her to management. I wouldn’t give my name (although she could have gotten it off the manifest anyway, I suppose). I also said I had just come back after dealing with my mother’s death and please do not bother me. I’m still angry when I think about it…but it just shows that even a small gesture from a middle aged short white lady might make a difference.
Thank you for being a "good disrupter" when you saw that happening. We all need to speak up when we see racism or bigotry in action.
They could not have gotten your name off the manifest on SW because there are no assigned seats as is the case on other airlines.
Good for you speaking up. We all need to do that when we see racist crap like that.
Thanks to the checklist provided by Southwest Airlines, all child sex traffickers now know to use an adult guide of the same race as the child being trafficked to avoid any suspicion from the airline.
Cindy McCain should know better. She adopted a daughter from India.
Don't forget that Southwest is the airline where a pilot announced "Let's Go Brandon" before take off and after the incident was brought to the attention of the airline, they refused to discipline the pilot.
Yeah. Southwest is utter excrement now. I used to fly them for many years. it SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.
I haven’t flown since Covid but I used to fly Southwest a lot. They had good prices but lately, they seem to be the worst run airline in the country.
And that takes effort given how much air travel sucks in general.
So true. It used to be fun with great customer service. I avoid flying them if at all possible. I was stranded in PHX during that first summer fuck up. They did zero to help me get back home (got myself on a stand by flight) and then I had to Tweet just to get a refund and that was 4 months later.
They used also to have nice FAs who were FUNNY (that's totally dead) and a relaxed, friendly atmosphere. They are now infested with MAGAtrash and by far the worst run airline in the country.
Yet another reason not to fly. Ever since 9/11, the entire industry has gone out of its way to make the entire experience as miserable as possible. I guess on the theory that terrorists don’t like to be treated rudely.
On Saturday, Mrs, Monster and I are driving from PA to NC because 9 hours in a car in August is more pleasant than flying.
Plus, two of my cousins came back from vacation this summer with Covid. Planes today are sealed metal tubes filed with all manner of pestilence.
"Planes today are sealed metal tubes filed with all manner of pestilence."
Easy solution, just open a window 😂
For real though, I drove 10+ hours each way with 3 kids last month, and I'm making the same trip solo this weekend, because fuck flying ever again unless I'm crossing an ocean.
Gotta say, I’m not totally opposed to being a bit aggressive when it comes to this shit…it’s very easy for bystanders to say “Well that seems a bit odd, but it’s probably OK…” and let it slide. The cops could have (and may have, the whole story isn’t clear) been perfectly respectful and after a reasonable amount of questioning left them to go on their way. They probably weren’t, because “cops,” but it could have been handled with minimal impact on the family while being sure that there wasn’t something hinky going on. So…take it as a lesson learned: if you see something odd, say something, but not of course if it’s just a racist dogwhistle.
I was in a mixed-race family growing up. Stepfather is British, my mother is Chinese, and I'm half Chinese and half-African American. Oh, and my two siblings are white.
We traveled to Europe in the 1980's and you should have seen the looks we got! But nobody, NOBODY tried to accuse my parents of human trafficking because it was the 1980's and social media hadn't poisoned people's minds yet.
Trump is so objectively vile and racists that in order to be able to worship him anyway (because he is vile and racists) his fans had to find something even worse than him and pretend he stands against it. So basically, they are saying that child sex trafficking is the only thing they could think of worse than Trump.
Well, I guess the ladies should have smiled more.
1. "Traveler does not have any personal luggage." Well, yeah, considering what airlines charge, you're going to have to wear everything you want to being all at once if you don't want to essentially pay for a second seat.
2. "Traveler is not appropriately dressed for travel and/or their destination." So should I be in my PJs, or in a tuxedo, when traveling?
3. "Traveler exhibits fear, anxiety, depression, submission, tension, nervousness and/or avoids eye contact." Have you fucking flown on an airplane in the past 20something years? Fear, anxiety, and depression are the minimum that you can expect, you assholes.
Lordy. ALL of these. Even more so for the family in the story. "Sorry I'm not more CHEERFUL coming home from a FUNERAL. All I packed was my TEARS."
Yeah #2 is absolutely absurd.
I have nothing to contribute beyond fuck Southwest Airlines.
Is it me or does this lady have the crazy eyes?
After much consideration I’m of a mind that though the trigger was racial, it might not of necessarily been racist. Would we feel the same way if the attendant was Black? I think that it is possible that the attendant was a victim of the “panic” and an over abundance of caution than actual racism. It is difficult to know what was in her heart and mind but in my (oh so important) judgement and barring other evidence of discriminatory behavior (racist texts, tweets, etc.) I would tend to give the attendant the benefit of the doubt.
I also think that a lawsuit might not be the most effective way of dealing with this, considering that law enforcement only interviewed the mother, and once satisfied, allowed her to continue on her way.
I saw a lady in the local supermarket yesterday, a white lady who was accompanied by two multi-racial kids. A girl about 8 and a boy about 10, well behaved and well groomed. My first thought was that they must have a black father. So what.
An excellent point.
On the other hand, just last week a child was kidnapped in my town in CO. Because of quick action by a bus driver and the local police the person who took the child (her father) was stopped several hours later in NM, apprehended, and the child was returned to her mother. This type of kidnapping happens a lot. It happens on planes too.
So what do we do? (To finish your question.)
I think, perhaps, not judge too harshly until we get more complete information. (Which, trust me, we will.)
The problem is, increasing the number of false reports does not have a positive impact on enforcement and starting from a bias will lead to poor outcomes. That is why a policy that puts an investigative task on people who are not trained in investigations is a bad idea. It turns bias into "evidence!" It turns dunning kruger into police encounters. And while it may not seem like a major deal to have the police stop you to see if you are related to your child, it is not. First you have a young child, who thinks their parent is going to be arrested because of something the child did (not the truth, but often what the kid thinks) and second, this wasn't the first time this happened to them. Not specifically an airline attendant accusing the mother of trafficking her own child (although maybe) but making the child prove that her mother is her mother. It adds up. The first time it is annoying, the 10th, the 100th, it gets exhausting and it is always scary when you have to prove to strangers that you are family. Because once the police arrive, they are working from the assumption that you are a criminal. And yes, sometimes they may get it right, but people who aren't operating on racial baises get it right a lot more often so getting rid of a policy that allows racial bias to be the triggering event is not just better from a social justice stand point, but also for protecting actual trafficked children.
So the attendant who reported this may not be a card carrying racist, but they operated under racial biases, which both affirm and are affirmed by any other "evidence" the biased person sees, because they are not trained to be aware of their own biases and account for them. Thus a woman wanting to sit next to her child becomes a woman "demanding" to sit next to her child, which is a pretty normal request even when requested at high volume. But through the lens of, "but they aren't the same race" it becomes nefarious and people don't ask the necessary follow up questions.
As far as not suing, we have limited options to change policies and procedures in private companies. A lawsuit may cost Southwest enough that they will consider an effective policy a better line item than, "but we gave them a list."
Agree.
and also, Dorothea says "Is it me or does this lady have the crazy eyes?"
But I can't answer because with this new ultra-improved Substack I can't just scroll up and check the lady's eyes, though from what I recall she struck me as rather pretty.
I thought it sounded just like the Cindy McCain - and happened around the same time. That one put me through the roof. Cindy must have forgotten her own adopted daughter who has very dark skin. Or was she trafficking, every time they traveled together? Or was that child left at home when the family went on trips?
Anyway, hope the mother gets enough bucks to put the kid through college.
Oh this will be fun if I my non-neurotypical self has to fly alone with my non-neurotypical daughter. We hit like half of these criteria on a good day. And the odds that she has an ADHD meltdown where she yells at me to get away from her are non zero.
Amtrak at least has a system (armbands with sunflowers on them) that identify people who have conditions that could affect one’s ability to travel alone effortlessly (ADHD, TBI, ASD, dyspraxia, etc) and theoretically provide us help and not Amtrak jail. But we can’t take Amtrak everywhere.
I saw the sunflowers thing in the Philly and Charlotte airports recently, so I think it's starting to catch on at least.
That’s good to know!