What is it with Bible thumpers becoming Education Commissioners? Here in New Hampshire we’ve got the idiotic Frank Edelblut running education (The cowardly Sununu appointed him to Education out of fear that Edelblut would primary him). You know he’s a sparkling paragon of education expertise, because he’s a “christian” fundamentalist who home schooled his 8 kids and then sent them to Hillsdale Bible Camp, I mean college. Edelblut despises public education and is doing everything in his power to strip public schools of funds. He’d love to make Bible study a required subject.
I want to just say to leave the coveting of thy neighbor's ass to the fine folk at JoeMyGod, who are professional in that regard. The problem with teaching the Bible is that there's a lot of stuff there that's not very Christian. In fact I became an atheist from reading that book.
As a language arts/social studies teacher, I often have to explain allusions to lots of different sorts of literature, including the Bible. When speaking recently to my kids about the movie we had been watching, "Cool Hand Luke," I mentioned the many Christ-references in the film, and I always went very heavy on the idea that this was about a STORY, not a belief in anything. If a kid wanted it to be about belief for them in their writing, fine, but it does not have to be and you can also enjoy the film remaining blissfully ignorant to the allusions to the gospels. And nobody has to believe it.
I never say that about Steinbeck. THAT I want them to believe.
Ryan Walters is an asshole and we are trying to get rid of him in Oklahoma before he can do much harm. He has the support of Gov. Stitt the Shit, and that's about it. Even the very conservative Attorney General here doesn't like Walters.
Yesterday's mandate will be quickly stayed pending a court hearing in state court where this nonsense will be ruled illegal under the Oklahoma State Constitution. It's a state law issue. and federal jurisdiction won't apply.
How will non-Christian teachers teach a holy book that isn't their holy book? What if that teacher has no religion or is a non-Christian believer?
And which Bible are we talking about? Catholic? King James? Others?
Finally, what makes a teacher who hasn't studied the Bible as a teachable topic supposed to teach students about it? Just... read it and then give the bored out of their ass kids a test?
"And which Bible are we talking about? Catholic? King James? Others?"
I would do a comparison among the different translations, and point out that the version you use would depend on what you wanted from it. You would not go to the KJV for accuracy, for instance, but you might for gorgeousness of early-modern English. Include an interlinear version (short selection for comparison) to demonstrate the difficulties inherent in translation (I have done enough translation [German to English] that I am aware of the pitfalls).
Of course, none of this is what that goober had in mind.
"How will non-Christian teachers teach a holy book that isn't their holy book? What if that teacher has no religion or is a non-Christian believer?"
I was raised Catholic but am now a total atheist and humanist, and I have an MA in German literature and am fairly widely read in American, British, and French literatures. I have had an Old Testament class at the seminary I started college in, but even that aside, I am confident I could put together a class for middle/high that would be entirely secular and conducive to further learning.
One thing I would do is start with literature that quotes or leans heavily on the Bible and then work back to the Bible. A great example of this in US lit is the discussion between Huck and Jim concerning Solomon and the famous story about cutting the baby in half. I would also use a passage in Hermann Hesse's "Demian" which thoroughly deconstructs the story of Cain and Abel.
You got me excited here. I want to move to Oklahoma and get planning! WOOT!
Were I an Oklahoma teacher, I'd be assigning my kids to read those horny poems in Psalms, and then writing an essay to discuss metaphor and hyperbole, and what they thought the author intended to get across to his audience.
And I'd like to see/hear a detailed explanation of the book of Leviticus. That is some particular rancid stuff there. Or explaining the concept of adultery to a bunch of 8 year-olds. Sodom and Gomorrah, anyone? Lest this assclown think the Bible is full of lions lying down with lambs and loaves and fishes and the like.
The Bible is full of gory, blood-soaked rituals and betrayals of all types. It's hardly the peaceable kingdom.
It's amazing how many "Christians" are unaware of the erotica, incest, genocide, etc. that resides in the book. Any time someone suggests it might not be appropriate for young people to read, the pearls get clutched and feathers rufffle.
Just to clarify: In Oklahoma, the Bible is "necessary historical document." Reports on the Tulsa race massacre are not. Does that about cover it?
Related note: If you're ever casting a movie and need someone to play a Nazi-adjacent fashy-boy with a college degree who gets his jaw permanently dislocated when he mouths off to the wrong guy in a bar, Ryan Walters has the look you want.
I believe it was the people of Oklahoma who made the cruel decision to make this mouthbreather State Supt. of Schools. It was a pretty close race too, with lots of Repubs crossing over to vote for the *gasp* Democrat. But not enough.
Clarence Thomas: This is clearly NOT a violation of the Establishment Cause because it is not their INTENT to establish a religion. They just want some religion in some schools which is different. So say I.
Dear Robyn, you know I revere and love you, but please re-read this- "He must figure you’ve gotta get them when they’re young, because it’s a lot harder to sell people turning into pillars of salt to elementary school children than to adults who might have questions about that kind of thing."
It says plainly the exact opposite of what you mean. I understand, when writing at white hot speed, a body can get her feet tangled with each other, happens to me all the time. Yours in the hope of a day when such vermin no longer disturb our peace of mind, your most humble and obedient Revenant.
The Bible in every classroom, even math? Doesn't the Bible say the value of pi is three? Might not be a good idea to hire any Okie STEM graduates going forward.
I went to Catholic School Grades 1-8 in the 60's. The Jesuits designed our curriculum. Every subject has some tie-in to Catholic theology except for Math and Science, which were rock solid.
When I started 9th grade in a public high school, I was lightyears ahead of everyone else in my Freshman General Science class.
Edward G Robinson voice: "Yeah, make bricks without straw, see. The Big Man in the pyramid's not too happy with you Israelites, see. N'yeah. The tally of bricks must be the same! Not one brick less! I'm taking to you, Charlton Heston and John Carradine!! The King of Siam is spittin' nails, and you better toe the line, see. Nobody's killed more people than Cecil B. DeMille. You might be next, see. Yeah. Is this the end of Rico?"
Ten Commandments, essential to our understanding of American history. *Mic drop*
What is it with Bible thumpers becoming Education Commissioners? Here in New Hampshire we’ve got the idiotic Frank Edelblut running education (The cowardly Sununu appointed him to Education out of fear that Edelblut would primary him). You know he’s a sparkling paragon of education expertise, because he’s a “christian” fundamentalist who home schooled his 8 kids and then sent them to Hillsdale Bible Camp, I mean college. Edelblut despises public education and is doing everything in his power to strip public schools of funds. He’d love to make Bible study a required subject.
I want to just say to leave the coveting of thy neighbor's ass to the fine folk at JoeMyGod, who are professional in that regard. The problem with teaching the Bible is that there's a lot of stuff there that's not very Christian. In fact I became an atheist from reading that book.
As a language arts/social studies teacher, I often have to explain allusions to lots of different sorts of literature, including the Bible. When speaking recently to my kids about the movie we had been watching, "Cool Hand Luke," I mentioned the many Christ-references in the film, and I always went very heavy on the idea that this was about a STORY, not a belief in anything. If a kid wanted it to be about belief for them in their writing, fine, but it does not have to be and you can also enjoy the film remaining blissfully ignorant to the allusions to the gospels. And nobody has to believe it.
I never say that about Steinbeck. THAT I want them to believe.
Ta, Robyn. Send him back to his mommy's basement, and ask her to nuke some Hot Pockets.
Ryan Walters is an asshole and we are trying to get rid of him in Oklahoma before he can do much harm. He has the support of Gov. Stitt the Shit, and that's about it. Even the very conservative Attorney General here doesn't like Walters.
Yesterday's mandate will be quickly stayed pending a court hearing in state court where this nonsense will be ruled illegal under the Oklahoma State Constitution. It's a state law issue. and federal jurisdiction won't apply.
How will non-Christian teachers teach a holy book that isn't their holy book? What if that teacher has no religion or is a non-Christian believer?
And which Bible are we talking about? Catholic? King James? Others?
Finally, what makes a teacher who hasn't studied the Bible as a teachable topic supposed to teach students about it? Just... read it and then give the bored out of their ass kids a test?
"And which Bible are we talking about? Catholic? King James? Others?"
I would do a comparison among the different translations, and point out that the version you use would depend on what you wanted from it. You would not go to the KJV for accuracy, for instance, but you might for gorgeousness of early-modern English. Include an interlinear version (short selection for comparison) to demonstrate the difficulties inherent in translation (I have done enough translation [German to English] that I am aware of the pitfalls).
Of course, none of this is what that goober had in mind.
"How will non-Christian teachers teach a holy book that isn't their holy book? What if that teacher has no religion or is a non-Christian believer?"
I was raised Catholic but am now a total atheist and humanist, and I have an MA in German literature and am fairly widely read in American, British, and French literatures. I have had an Old Testament class at the seminary I started college in, but even that aside, I am confident I could put together a class for middle/high that would be entirely secular and conducive to further learning.
One thing I would do is start with literature that quotes or leans heavily on the Bible and then work back to the Bible. A great example of this in US lit is the discussion between Huck and Jim concerning Solomon and the famous story about cutting the baby in half. I would also use a passage in Hermann Hesse's "Demian" which thoroughly deconstructs the story of Cain and Abel.
You got me excited here. I want to move to Oklahoma and get planning! WOOT!
Oh, I can see a lot of ways this class could be taught. But I doubt that's the way the state wants it taught.
I figured you were aware, I just got excited!
Were I an Oklahoma teacher, I'd be assigning my kids to read those horny poems in Psalms, and then writing an essay to discuss metaphor and hyperbole, and what they thought the author intended to get across to his audience.
The Song of Solomon for the win!
And I'd like to see/hear a detailed explanation of the book of Leviticus. That is some particular rancid stuff there. Or explaining the concept of adultery to a bunch of 8 year-olds. Sodom and Gomorrah, anyone? Lest this assclown think the Bible is full of lions lying down with lambs and loaves and fishes and the like.
The Bible is full of gory, blood-soaked rituals and betrayals of all types. It's hardly the peaceable kingdom.
It's amazing how many "Christians" are unaware of the erotica, incest, genocide, etc. that resides in the book. Any time someone suggests it might not be appropriate for young people to read, the pearls get clutched and feathers rufffle.
Tintin libelz!
Just to clarify: In Oklahoma, the Bible is "necessary historical document." Reports on the Tulsa race massacre are not. Does that about cover it?
Related note: If you're ever casting a movie and need someone to play a Nazi-adjacent fashy-boy with a college degree who gets his jaw permanently dislocated when he mouths off to the wrong guy in a bar, Ryan Walters has the look you want.
Yeah, saw that on "Kojak" once.
Ta', Robyn. In cauda venenum.
I believe it was the people of Oklahoma who made the cruel decision to make this mouthbreather State Supt. of Schools. It was a pretty close race too, with lots of Repubs crossing over to vote for the *gasp* Democrat. But not enough.
It's an act of desperation from the Christian Nationalists who see people turning away from religion.
So was the Spanish Inquisition, but it still lasted about 300 years.
Oh yeah I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!
Clarence Thomas: This is clearly NOT a violation of the Establishment Cause because it is not their INTENT to establish a religion. They just want some religion in some schools which is different. So say I.
Dear Robyn, you know I revere and love you, but please re-read this- "He must figure you’ve gotta get them when they’re young, because it’s a lot harder to sell people turning into pillars of salt to elementary school children than to adults who might have questions about that kind of thing."
It says plainly the exact opposite of what you mean. I understand, when writing at white hot speed, a body can get her feet tangled with each other, happens to me all the time. Yours in the hope of a day when such vermin no longer disturb our peace of mind, your most humble and obedient Revenant.
Thanks! Yeah, sorry — sometimes happens when I rewrite a sentence a couple times.
Having been there and that having been done, a t-shirt also was acquired by me at that time and place and for that very thing.
Yep, that passage requires correction of just one word -- change "harder" to "easier" and the whole thing becomes coherent.
Tintin, that's it!
I couldn't quite place who he reminded me of.
The Bible in every classroom, even math? Doesn't the Bible say the value of pi is three? Might not be a good idea to hire any Okie STEM graduates going forward.
I went to Catholic School Grades 1-8 in the 60's. The Jesuits designed our curriculum. Every subject has some tie-in to Catholic theology except for Math and Science, which were rock solid.
When I started 9th grade in a public high school, I was lightyears ahead of everyone else in my Freshman General Science class.
Jesuit, eh? Ask Hopkins what happens.
Edward G Robinson voice: "Yeah, make bricks without straw, see. The Big Man in the pyramid's not too happy with you Israelites, see. N'yeah. The tally of bricks must be the same! Not one brick less! I'm taking to you, Charlton Heston and John Carradine!! The King of Siam is spittin' nails, and you better toe the line, see. Nobody's killed more people than Cecil B. DeMille. You might be next, see. Yeah. Is this the end of Rico?"
Ten Commandments, essential to our understanding of American history. *Mic drop*