Lee didn't just own slaves, he refused to manumit them as per his father-in-law's wishes. He actually got sued by his beloved state of Vuhginny for this. That's right kids, Lee was *too racist for the state of antebellum Virginia*
"There were heroes in the Confederacy who didn’t have slaves and, you know, I just, I just have a visceral reaction against destroying history. I don’t like it. I think we should celebrate who we are."
-------
Yes! By all means! Let's celebrate slavery! Let's celebrate the assassinations of your uncle and father! That's who we once were, you repugnant toad, so why not celebrate all the shit we were supposed to celebrate way back when? Kill Dr King! Shoot Medgar Evers in the back! Let's have a party!
Oh, and let's celebrate lynchings! And the rape of slaves by their white masters! And what about share-cropping!
I don't know about you, but I'm celebrated enough. Fucking racist, asshole twit. That worm didn't eat enough of your brain. It should have started at your brain stem and worked its way up.
It is surreal listening to a member of the Kennedy family talking this revisionist garbage about the moral imbeciles and monsters who ran the Confederacy. There were indeed skillful Confederate generals like Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and others, and one may give them their due as strategists and fighters, but they were not "heroes." They put their considerable military skill into the service of a dehumanizing and wicked cause, and there's nothing heroic about that.
"They fought valiantly for their cause, though that cause was, I believe, the worst cause for which men have ever fought." -- US Grant (speaking shortly after Appomattox)
I may be contradicted by people who actually know what they're talking about, but I believe that Lee was the only West point graduate and serving officer in the United States army from Virginia who chose to fight on the side of the secessionists.
From bronze statues to the dukes of Hazzard, the Lee mythos is strong and enduring. He wasn't a particularly good general. You might note that he surrendered. That fact alone should any argument about Lee's tactical and strategic abilities. Sure, the menly commanded sent many loyal Americans to their graves. But that's the same work as terrorists or bank robbers. One very powerful part of the Lost cause myth is this idea that Robert e Lee had shit that didn't stink. It takes a strong stomach to read the lost cause garbage. These are not measured reviews of historical figures, the lost cause, in the words of one historian, created a view of the Southern past that was quote Happy Happy Land. If you have the stomach you might look up lost cause propagandist Samuel A'Court Ashe. His shit was legendary. He wrote a pamphlet on George Davis, the nobody whig from Wilmington North Carolina who for a year and a few weeks was the attorney general of their little He-Man woman haters club, the Confederacy. In his remembrance of Davis, who was an unexcelled railroad attorney who married well and gave a decent speech, Davis was described as being a person of absolutely perfect moral character of unblemished record. He went so far, to ridiculous lengths, to praise the man, even as part of an address to the North Carolina supreme Court on the occasion of the Court accepting an oil painting of the late traitorous attorney general, of having perfect handwriting. Each figure, he said more perfect than the last. Shit like that. It's toxic stuff. It's like the protocols of the elders of Zion, you figure that when someone reads a few paragraphs that immediately struck with how obviously phony and ridiculous that shit is. But a lot of people don't they buy it it fits their preferences if it's a biases, they want to believe in perfect people and easy solutions. It's like a virus. And we're living through yet another eruption of the Lost cause virus. I just hope this time this pandemic of racism of totalitarianism of authoritarianism of strong man bullshit doesn't end with people in ovens.
No good general surrenders. Ergo Lee was not a good general. If he gets credit for prolonging a war well then he only did something that terrorists are capable of doing. Maps and chaps thinking, which reduces warfare to questions of gamesmanship, is one very big reason that the Lost cause myth has had such a very long half life.
Don't disagree with the idea that terrorists could do much the same. I wouldn't defend Lee at all. But no good general [or other rank of commander] surrenders? I don't know about that -- medieval warfare seems to have seen such stuff happen. Then too, didn't the commander of Fort Sumter, Major Anderson, have to surrender to avoid getting his men annihilated? I wouldn't blame him for that -- he was outgunned and ran out of good options. It happens.
I can tell you one Confederate trophy that I hope never gets taken away: the Virginia 28th Infantry battle colors seized by the First Minnesota on the second day of Gettysburg. For quite some time now, whenever there’s a new governor in Virginia or Minnesota, Virginia writes Minnesota a letter saying, “May we have our flag back, please?” And Minnesota has always responded (so far) with some variation of, “We’re taking very good care of it, feel free to come visit.” I actually have a picture of it somewhere.
(I’m aware the First Minnesota and Alexander Ramsey weren’t perfect. Before Minnesota volunteers could tangle with the rebels, they had to go kill a bunch of starving Dakota. Lincoln sentenced thirty-eight of the Dakota to death by hanging. Going from the Minnesota Historical Society’s exhibit on the Civil War to its exhibit on the US-Dakota war gave me one of the biggest cases of patriotic whiplash I’ve ever had. The First Minnesota murdered Dakota. The First Minnesota were in the right at Gettysburg. I don’t know how to reconcile these facts. I just know I’m glad we’ve never given back the battle flag.)
Yeah, that business with the Native Americans is why we now have a new state flag. The old one had a seal that depicted a white farmer watching a Native American retreat from the land.
But the 1st Minnesota Regiment served with distinction in the Civil War. They were the last unit to leave the field at the First Battle of Bull Run (Manassas). And it was at Gettysburg where they wrote themselves into history. On the 2nd day, a gap opened in the Union line and the Confederates were about to take advantage by charging into the gap sending the Union army into retreat. The 1st Minnesota was ordered into that gap, and despite being outnumbered 5 to 1 and taking 80% casualties, they held the line. This changed the course of the battle, and arguably, the war.
You are correct. I was at the Gettysburg battlefield last year and standing by the monument to the First Minnesota at the place where they charged was an emotional experience. There is a tiny town on the North Shore named for Colville (and spelled different)
Fun fact: a handful of Northern states-based companies mass produced statues of rank-and-file Civil War soldiers, marketing them in the North as Union memorials and marketing them in the South as Confederate memorials. You could order them from a catalog. Mass production means economies of scale, of course, so these statues were readily available and affordable. And that's why we have so many Civil War monuments all over the country.
The Daughters of the confederacy were used to put them everywhere they could place them.
"The biggest spike in Confederate memorials came during the early 1900s, soon after Southern states enacted a number of sweeping laws to disenfranchise Black Americans and segregate society. During this period, more than 400 monuments were built as part of an organized strategy to reshape Civil War history. And this effort was largely spearheaded by the United Daughters of the Confederacy, who sponsored hundreds of statues, predominantly in the South in the early 20th century — and as recently as 2011."
"In the false Lost Cause version of history, Confederate heroes fought not to preserve the institution of slavery, but to “defend their homes” from mean Yankee invaders who wanted to take away everything that mattered to them."
Doubly false. Let's also not forget that the first shots of the Civil War were fired by secessionists at Fort Sumter. Even though said secessionists had been informed by the commander of the detachment there that they were just days away from being forced to abandon the fort for lack of food, those assholes were just THAT HOT to start a shooting war. They gave Charleston's oldest and most famous secessionist politician, Edmund Ruffin, the "honor" of firing the first shot.
"The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
~ Alexander H. Stevens, Vice President, CSA
That's some history you want to defend there, chief.
Lee's opposite number Ulysses Grant also received an enslaved man from his father-in-law as a wedding present. After a year he hated the idea of slavery so much that he gave the man, William Jones, his freedom. Grant was bankrupt and could have sold him for a thousand dollars but wouldn't. More statues of Grant, please, even if he didn't look sharp on a horse.
Lee didn't just own slaves, he refused to manumit them as per his father-in-law's wishes. He actually got sued by his beloved state of Vuhginny for this. That's right kids, Lee was *too racist for the state of antebellum Virginia*
"There were heroes in the Confederacy who didn’t have slaves and, you know, I just, I just have a visceral reaction against destroying history. I don’t like it. I think we should celebrate who we are."
-------
Yes! By all means! Let's celebrate slavery! Let's celebrate the assassinations of your uncle and father! That's who we once were, you repugnant toad, so why not celebrate all the shit we were supposed to celebrate way back when? Kill Dr King! Shoot Medgar Evers in the back! Let's have a party!
Oh, and let's celebrate lynchings! And the rape of slaves by their white masters! And what about share-cropping!
I don't know about you, but I'm celebrated enough. Fucking racist, asshole twit. That worm didn't eat enough of your brain. It should have started at your brain stem and worked its way up.
Sorry, dear Wonkettes. I needed to vent.
Well reasoned. But let's not get in the way of RFK Jr proving that he can out Trump trump. Let them praise Confederates, and split the asshole vote.
Never interrupt an asshole, douche nugget when he is digging himself a hole........hand him another shovel......
Ta, Dok. Like the famous Mike Pence fly, the brain worm had far more going for it than its host.
It is surreal listening to a member of the Kennedy family talking this revisionist garbage about the moral imbeciles and monsters who ran the Confederacy. There were indeed skillful Confederate generals like Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and others, and one may give them their due as strategists and fighters, but they were not "heroes." They put their considerable military skill into the service of a dehumanizing and wicked cause, and there's nothing heroic about that.
"They fought valiantly for their cause, though that cause was, I believe, the worst cause for which men have ever fought." -- US Grant (speaking shortly after Appomattox)
I may be contradicted by people who actually know what they're talking about, but I believe that Lee was the only West point graduate and serving officer in the United States army from Virginia who chose to fight on the side of the secessionists.
From bronze statues to the dukes of Hazzard, the Lee mythos is strong and enduring. He wasn't a particularly good general. You might note that he surrendered. That fact alone should any argument about Lee's tactical and strategic abilities. Sure, the menly commanded sent many loyal Americans to their graves. But that's the same work as terrorists or bank robbers. One very powerful part of the Lost cause myth is this idea that Robert e Lee had shit that didn't stink. It takes a strong stomach to read the lost cause garbage. These are not measured reviews of historical figures, the lost cause, in the words of one historian, created a view of the Southern past that was quote Happy Happy Land. If you have the stomach you might look up lost cause propagandist Samuel A'Court Ashe. His shit was legendary. He wrote a pamphlet on George Davis, the nobody whig from Wilmington North Carolina who for a year and a few weeks was the attorney general of their little He-Man woman haters club, the Confederacy. In his remembrance of Davis, who was an unexcelled railroad attorney who married well and gave a decent speech, Davis was described as being a person of absolutely perfect moral character of unblemished record. He went so far, to ridiculous lengths, to praise the man, even as part of an address to the North Carolina supreme Court on the occasion of the Court accepting an oil painting of the late traitorous attorney general, of having perfect handwriting. Each figure, he said more perfect than the last. Shit like that. It's toxic stuff. It's like the protocols of the elders of Zion, you figure that when someone reads a few paragraphs that immediately struck with how obviously phony and ridiculous that shit is. But a lot of people don't they buy it it fits their preferences if it's a biases, they want to believe in perfect people and easy solutions. It's like a virus. And we're living through yet another eruption of the Lost cause virus. I just hope this time this pandemic of racism of totalitarianism of authoritarianism of strong man bullshit doesn't end with people in ovens.
Nah, check out behind the bastards, Lee was not a good general. That lie is part of his revisionist mythos.
Not so sure about that. He probably kept the war going longer than others would have. No matter -- the cause was rotten.
No good general surrenders. Ergo Lee was not a good general. If he gets credit for prolonging a war well then he only did something that terrorists are capable of doing. Maps and chaps thinking, which reduces warfare to questions of gamesmanship, is one very big reason that the Lost cause myth has had such a very long half life.
Don't disagree with the idea that terrorists could do much the same. I wouldn't defend Lee at all. But no good general [or other rank of commander] surrenders? I don't know about that -- medieval warfare seems to have seen such stuff happen. Then too, didn't the commander of Fort Sumter, Major Anderson, have to surrender to avoid getting his men annihilated? I wouldn't blame him for that -- he was outgunned and ran out of good options. It happens.
If Kennedy is so concerned about efforts to "erase history," I'm sure we can count on his support combatting those nasty book burners!
I'm sure he's also all in on reading all the things North Carolinian "librarians" and town fathers are ACTIVELY KEEPING FROM THE PEOPLE IN THEIR STATE
When White Supremacists Overthrew A Duly Elected Government
https://youtu.be/LVQomlXMeek?si=_2X83K18LsFPOyfl
Well, this is good for siphoning more anti-vaxxer/racist votes from Trump. It's gonna be hilarious if QAnon abandons Trump. Fingers crossed!!
I can tell you one Confederate trophy that I hope never gets taken away: the Virginia 28th Infantry battle colors seized by the First Minnesota on the second day of Gettysburg. For quite some time now, whenever there’s a new governor in Virginia or Minnesota, Virginia writes Minnesota a letter saying, “May we have our flag back, please?” And Minnesota has always responded (so far) with some variation of, “We’re taking very good care of it, feel free to come visit.” I actually have a picture of it somewhere.
(I’m aware the First Minnesota and Alexander Ramsey weren’t perfect. Before Minnesota volunteers could tangle with the rebels, they had to go kill a bunch of starving Dakota. Lincoln sentenced thirty-eight of the Dakota to death by hanging. Going from the Minnesota Historical Society’s exhibit on the Civil War to its exhibit on the US-Dakota war gave me one of the biggest cases of patriotic whiplash I’ve ever had. The First Minnesota murdered Dakota. The First Minnesota were in the right at Gettysburg. I don’t know how to reconcile these facts. I just know I’m glad we’ve never given back the battle flag.)
Yeah, that business with the Native Americans is why we now have a new state flag. The old one had a seal that depicted a white farmer watching a Native American retreat from the land.
But the 1st Minnesota Regiment served with distinction in the Civil War. They were the last unit to leave the field at the First Battle of Bull Run (Manassas). And it was at Gettysburg where they wrote themselves into history. On the 2nd day, a gap opened in the Union line and the Confederates were about to take advantage by charging into the gap sending the Union army into retreat. The 1st Minnesota was ordered into that gap, and despite being outnumbered 5 to 1 and taking 80% casualties, they held the line. This changed the course of the battle, and arguably, the war.
As I recall from many books, the commander of the 1st Minnesota was Col William Colville.
I could look it up to be sure, but hoping my memory still works.
You are correct. I was at the Gettysburg battlefield last year and standing by the monument to the First Minnesota at the place where they charged was an emotional experience. There is a tiny town on the North Shore named for Colville (and spelled different)
Well, now we know where he got the brain worms.
Fun fact: a handful of Northern states-based companies mass produced statues of rank-and-file Civil War soldiers, marketing them in the North as Union memorials and marketing them in the South as Confederate memorials. You could order them from a catalog. Mass production means economies of scale, of course, so these statues were readily available and affordable. And that's why we have so many Civil War monuments all over the country.
The Daughters of the confederacy were used to put them everywhere they could place them.
"The biggest spike in Confederate memorials came during the early 1900s, soon after Southern states enacted a number of sweeping laws to disenfranchise Black Americans and segregate society. During this period, more than 400 monuments were built as part of an organized strategy to reshape Civil War history. And this effort was largely spearheaded by the United Daughters of the Confederacy, who sponsored hundreds of statues, predominantly in the South in the early 20th century — and as recently as 2011."
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/confederate-statues/
"In the false Lost Cause version of history, Confederate heroes fought not to preserve the institution of slavery, but to “defend their homes” from mean Yankee invaders who wanted to take away everything that mattered to them."
Doubly false. Let's also not forget that the first shots of the Civil War were fired by secessionists at Fort Sumter. Even though said secessionists had been informed by the commander of the detachment there that they were just days away from being forced to abandon the fort for lack of food, those assholes were just THAT HOT to start a shooting war. They gave Charleston's oldest and most famous secessionist politician, Edmund Ruffin, the "honor" of firing the first shot.
Defensive war my ass.
The man who lowered the Union colors when Fort Sumter surrendered was the man who raised them again when the war was over.
And the man who fired the first shot at him was dead. I can't adequately describe how gratifying that is.
Suicide, no less..
"The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
~ Alexander H. Stevens, Vice President, CSA
That's some history you want to defend there, chief.
So, Is Bob Kennedy going to campaign for statutes that honor Lee Harvey Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan?
We don't want to forget history, afterall.
People keep wanting to add more statues to the Lee Harvey Oswald statue, it’s really annoying.
It's like adding the Bobby verse to Abraham, Martin, and John. Tacked on.
Kids these days are too distracted to appreciate a quadratic equation statue.
There are just SO MANY statues of Hitler on display in Germany, because even though norms change, blah blah blah, it was a part of history!
And all of the glorious monuments dedicated here in the US to George III - love them.
Hilarious. What did they do with it?
Lee's opposite number Ulysses Grant also received an enslaved man from his father-in-law as a wedding present. After a year he hated the idea of slavery so much that he gave the man, William Jones, his freedom. Grant was bankrupt and could have sold him for a thousand dollars but wouldn't. More statues of Grant, please, even if he didn't look sharp on a horse.
The funny part about Grant not looking sharp on a horse is that Grant was a brilliant rider. He set records at West Point, if I remember right.
Also Sherman, because he knew how to read traitors for filth....
We need more Grant statues, period.