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Bindersfulohostbodies's avatar

Maybe I misinterpret her shtick? I thought the goal was to appear to be a fart sniffing pseudo intellectual snob, the stereotype of what conservatives viewed liberals as, for decades, starting with the beatniks. And the unabashed offensiveness was the provocation. She’s a provocateur, not the most inventive one, but apparently her tactics still work. Certainly it’s outdated, even back then. But the hated stereotype for liberals, beatniks, and hippies was from the perception of outdated people and outdated causes... like 100% freedom for freedom’s sake, without regard to others. Thus the offensive smoking. I’ve been clear on my views regarding smoking so I won’t elaborate. I wish it were illegal. Now I’m not as well versed in all her career, as I’m also not of her generation. But I think it’s possible to appreciate things like art or satire on many levels, both in the moment as well as retrospectively. You’ve got equal right to your opinion as I do mine, and I respect the subjectivity of it.

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Cat Cafe's avatar

Of course.

The stereotypes, and the people who mocked them, are really quite different, not that it really matters, but as one who grew up in Berkeley in the 50s and 60s, let me at least go through them:

1. Beatniks. Coffeehouses, poetry that didn't rhyme and spoke out against "the man." These folks were never particularly powerful, and were mocked by not only more conservative people, but almost immediately by the next generation of hippies (see Steve Martin's "Oh Mr. COMMUTER" as a "beatnik poetry" parody sketch on SNL in the mid-1970s). (Yes, Steve Martin was a hippie.)

2. Hippies. Flower children. Mocked by conservatives as children who didn't understand the world. I was one. We demonstrated hard-core against the viet nam war --it was our brothers and boyfriends who were being sent to be killed in an immoral war. We also fought for women's rights and civil rights. So we became much more targeted, as dirty hippies, as traitors, and tracked by the government, and even killed by the government (Kent State)

3. Liberals. This is a slightly later incarnation, includes many of us faded hippies, and you know what that entails since it's still going on today, along with the attacks.

So amidst this, Fran never was a hippie, and kind of placed herself as the contrarian to the hippie (even though she was of the flower child generation); and then, as the contrarian to the liberals. She became the darling of the artsy upper West Side New York crowd, who all fancy themselves as individualists.

Anyway, I just can't stand her and her pretentiousness. BUT I fully agree, people have different tastes. I think Jimmy Fallon is a simpering fool, too, and plenty of people think he's hilarious.

Full disclosure-- I'm a screenwriter, have had a 36-year career as a writer, most of those as a comedy writer (movies, TV, books), working with the top folks in the field, i.e Steve Martin, Bob Zemeckis, Tim Burton, etc. So I fully acknowledge that I'm far, far, FAR more irritable and judgmental of people in the "humor" and "comedy" business than most normal people (and no one has ever considered me normal haha).

Now, Nora Ephron--her essays were revelations. REVELATIONS!

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