The "Science" part comes from some weird Sci-Fi shit that Hubbard dreamed up. You can look it up: it involves intergalactic space aliens, atomic bombs, and volcanoes. (That's the reasonable part - it gets much, much weirder than you'd imagine, even given that premise.)
Hubbard was a malignant narcissist (yeah, another one), who founded his "church" as a tax dodge. After he croaked, the loons who'd attended to him declared that *actually*, he'd just "dropped his body" in order to continue his research on "another plane of existence." (No mention, as far as I know, of spending 3 days in a tomb.) With an infallible, all-knowing demigod in hand, who had all the answers to your problems, they had all the ingredients needed to cook up a cult — and the tax-free status to make it hugely profitable.
Scientology is living proof that there is no such thing as a theory that's TOO whacked out, and TOO ridiculous, for a cult of humans to believe in it. In that sense, at least, it really is a religion.
Scientology is a blatant scam. Even more than every other organized religion. Paul put the kibosh on Christianity long ago, coopting it for the Roman Empire.
Actually it was the Emperor Constantine and a consortium of "bishops" who formulated the Christian religion, authored the New Testament and established Christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire at the Council of Nicea in 312 AD
The Council of Nicaea only formulated the Creed. The New Testament books were in circulation by the end of the 2nd century although there were disputes at the edges about which books were authoritative until 385 (when Rome agreed with Alexandria, and mostly with other Eastern churches, about the list; Constantinople puts Revelation in a semi-canonical status, not to be used liturgically; Syrian churches do not recognize 2nd Peter; Ethiopia has a 2nd Acts about their local saints). Constantine only "tolerated" Christianity (removing the previous ban) and did not even convert formally until his deathbed; establishment of Christianity as the only religion patronized by the state was a gradual process, not complete until the 5th century..
Tom Cruise is a complicit as David Miscavige in the crimes committed by Scientology. There's a Scientology hive a few blocks away from me. Every time I walk by there are dead-eyed chainsmokers standing outside the building waiting for an anonymous white bus to take them somewhere.
My sister lost her daughter to her rich techbro ex for 20 years because Scientology said so, and went on doing scut work for them anyway. Inconceivable to me, but then my family life didn't turn out well either.
Pretty much the only reason Scientology calls itself a religion is to get the tax and other legal advantages. IIRC, Hubbard or someone else high up once explicitly admitted it.
There seems to be great confusion about the idea of "Separation of Church and State". It simply means that the government does not support any particular religion. It does not give anyone license to start up some fruit loops organization, call it a "religion" and be free of any and all regulation or oversight.
The problem with that is that then the government has to get into the business of deciding what counts as a religion and what doesn't. Which gives an unfair advantage to religions that were founded too far in the past for there to be definitive evidence that their founders were frauds.
Valid point. Still seems that we ought to be able to construct some criteria that a "church" has to adhere to. As far as the IRS is concerned , they do have criteria for defining a "not for profit" organization.
No, the courts (all the way up to SCOTUS in Commissioner v. Hernandez) have ruled that Scientology is a for-profit business not entitled to tax exemption, but the IRS exempted them anyway (to stop Scientology's persistent harassment of its personnel).
It also means that since we're a multipolar society on just about every level, we have to have a common framework in which to communicate so we can get things done. Since most religions have a lot of exclusivity in them, that means we can't talk about religion while we're discussing common matters which affect all of us, whichever or none religion we adhere to.
It does take some mental discipline. But it's important. A few of my ancestors came here from France at a time when not being Catholic was a capital offense. Some of the rest came from parts of England and Scotland that went back and forth on whether being Catholic was or was not a capital offense. Between that, my familiar tendency to pick the side most obviously going to lose, and all the damn wars of Europe my ancestors refused to fight in; we figured running around in the woods with a bunch of damn Puritans was the better bet.
Having grown up with Catholicism, Lutheranism, Judaism, and Fundamentalist Protestantism, It was either lose my mind early on, or come to the conclusion that they were all equally the same nonsensical Bronze Age mythology. Given the fact that I am still sorta sane, ( I think ) it's obvious that I chose the latter course..
I was fortunately raised non-religious, although christened Anglican. My Catholic paternal grandmother took my sister and me to church a few times, with no success. My sister even went to a Pentecostal church with her best friend, and was almost scarred for life when they began speaking in tongues. My Muslim maternal grandfather was too moderate to try to indoctrinate his own kids, let alone his grandchildren. My dad has always been strongly anti-organized religion, my mom waffles between various forms of spirituality, but has always had a soft-spot for Ancient Greek and Roman mythology. As a child, I used to think that the 'God'/Jehovah/ Yayweh etc. that Christians and Jews worshipped was the same god as the Jove/Jupiter/Zeus that the ancient Greeks and Romans worshipped. Needless to say, any monotheistic person I tried to discuss this with was not pleased.
Seems reasonable Depictions of the Hebrew God and Zeus look very similar. Long flowing white bear etc. Since all of Western Civilization is male dominated the Supreme Being is assumed to be the “chief” old man
My parents were lapsed Protestants. Dad was raised Episcopalian, and Mom Presbyterian.
Mom's Dad was a very devout man, and exceptionally well-liked in his rural southern Indiana town. He was also the county Republican Party Chair until 1980. In 1980, the fundagelicals took over and kicked him out because he believed, because not despite his deep faith, that it was extremely important to keep one's religion out of public matters. That deeply hurt him.
My parents taught us kids the basics of all the world's major religions, past and present. They found kids-versions of some of the great texts. We read Greek, Norse, Celtic and Egyptian myths, an amazing and weird version of the Ramayana, The Epic of Gilgamesh, kid-sanitized stuff from the Bible and Koran, some of the non-Old Testament Jewish stuff.
What impressed me most was the overall similarity. People generally agree what decent and desirable behavior is, and what it isn't. The differences seem to mostly stem from geography. When you're in the desert, don't eat the shellfish; and you can't refuse water to even your worst enemy. When you're in a frozen hellscape, you have to share warmth. When you're being chased all over by people who want to kill you, it's important to stick together.
It's when people focus on the weird little details that things start going wrong. What do I care if God is three different beings, or the same thing three different ways? I know it's wine, or grape juice; I know we're just pretending it's blood; why is that a problem? Drinking blood is the kind of thing that really should stay symbolic anyway, dontcha think?
Much like how I was raised, and have raised the Kid, as a Unitarian. The slightly old-fashioned kind, in no amen-ing, nor much reference at all to Jesus etc.
A Scientologist, Joy Villa, did infiltrate the Trump entourage. Diamond & Silk despised her, and she was drummed out after accusing Corey Lewandowski of groping her rump.
TBF, anyone who thinks that anyone outside their religion would agree with the wacko shit they believe is an idiot. Whether the religion has 100 adherents or 100,000,000.
Trump supporters claim to like straight, plain talk. Well how about this? Donald Trump is a dangerous nutcase who belongs in a mental institution, not the White House!! Straight and plain enough?
The "church" of Scientology and the Catholic Church should merge, after all they have the same business model.
That building is on the way to LA airport (LAX). I cringe a bit whenever I pass it.
Looks unreal. Like a Hollywood set of a movie similar to Hunger Game.
Maybe we should have some time span before you can call your gang a "church" 250 years sounds reasonable.
l. ron was just white elijah muhammad.
it's not his fault what david "farrakhan" miscavige has done in the name of dianetics.
No, they were pretty much the same. Listen to the various Behind the Bastards episodes on Hubbard.
Start here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxpbUlMV3O6mSfQkaA7paKr-olRNvt2cQ&si=CyFqWcxnLu4-sX0X
Is anyone "clear" on what the Church of Scientology believes in? Is it "Science" or "Tology"? Asking for a friend.
The "Science" part comes from some weird Sci-Fi shit that Hubbard dreamed up. You can look it up: it involves intergalactic space aliens, atomic bombs, and volcanoes. (That's the reasonable part - it gets much, much weirder than you'd imagine, even given that premise.)
Hubbard was a malignant narcissist (yeah, another one), who founded his "church" as a tax dodge. After he croaked, the loons who'd attended to him declared that *actually*, he'd just "dropped his body" in order to continue his research on "another plane of existence." (No mention, as far as I know, of spending 3 days in a tomb.) With an infallible, all-knowing demigod in hand, who had all the answers to your problems, they had all the ingredients needed to cook up a cult — and the tax-free status to make it hugely profitable.
Scientology is living proof that there is no such thing as a theory that's TOO whacked out, and TOO ridiculous, for a cult of humans to believe in it. In that sense, at least, it really is a religion.
And he was a shitty sci-fi author, too.
Their "followers" money, that's what they believe in. That's ALL they believe in or care about.
it's alcoholics anonymous crossed with amway.
Scientology is a blatant scam. Even more than every other organized religion. Paul put the kibosh on Christianity long ago, coopting it for the Roman Empire.
Actually it was the Emperor Constantine and a consortium of "bishops" who formulated the Christian religion, authored the New Testament and established Christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire at the Council of Nicea in 312 AD
The Council of Nicaea only formulated the Creed. The New Testament books were in circulation by the end of the 2nd century although there were disputes at the edges about which books were authoritative until 385 (when Rome agreed with Alexandria, and mostly with other Eastern churches, about the list; Constantinople puts Revelation in a semi-canonical status, not to be used liturgically; Syrian churches do not recognize 2nd Peter; Ethiopia has a 2nd Acts about their local saints). Constantine only "tolerated" Christianity (removing the previous ban) and did not even convert formally until his deathbed; establishment of Christianity as the only religion patronized by the state was a gradual process, not complete until the 5th century..
Paul paved the way for them.
He was a believer, but he didn't think big... he lacked the politico-corporate mindset of Constantine & Co.
Where's Shelly?
Evergreen question
Tom Cruise is a complicit as David Miscavige in the crimes committed by Scientology. There's a Scientology hive a few blocks away from me. Every time I walk by there are dead-eyed chainsmokers standing outside the building waiting for an anonymous white bus to take them somewhere.
They are going to work for free somewhere for the “church.”
Is the "smoking man" from the X-files among them?
Another criminal organization pretending to be religious.
Like Catholicism and Wahhabism.
My sister lost her daughter to her rich techbro ex for 20 years because Scientology said so, and went on doing scut work for them anyway. Inconceivable to me, but then my family life didn't turn out well either.
Gross
Why is the Church of Scientology allowed to have prison camps?
Freedom of religion.
Someone needs to run the Magdalene laundries.
Probably $
Pretty much the only reason Scientology calls itself a religion is to get the tax and other legal advantages. IIRC, Hubbard or someone else high up once explicitly admitted it.
he was a real flop as a scifi writer, so he had to claim it was all true
like the old saying goes, if you can’t be a best seller, create an abusive sex cult for the tax benefits
There was one of my favorite things ever made released the day tax exempt status was granted
https://youtu.be/BXne-DNEmLA?si=IEqHc5xv9dAXnepP
Ironic “standing tall” given that msicavage is three apples high
There seems to be great confusion about the idea of "Separation of Church and State". It simply means that the government does not support any particular religion. It does not give anyone license to start up some fruit loops organization, call it a "religion" and be free of any and all regulation or oversight.
Scientologists would beg to differ.
As would right-wing Christians.
𝑰𝒕 𝒅𝒐𝒆𝒔 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒈𝒊𝒗𝒆 𝒂𝒏𝒚𝒐𝒏𝒆 𝒍𝒊𝒄𝒆𝒏𝒔𝒆 𝒕𝒐 𝒔𝒕𝒂𝒓𝒕 𝒖𝒑 𝒔𝒐𝒎𝒆 𝒇𝒓𝒖𝒊𝒕 𝒍𝒐𝒐𝒑𝒔 𝒐𝒓𝒈𝒂𝒏𝒊𝒛𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏, 𝒄𝒂𝒍𝒍 𝒊𝒕 𝒂 "𝒓𝒆𝒍𝒊𝒈𝒊𝒐𝒏" 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒃𝒆 𝒇𝒓𝒆𝒆 𝒐𝒇 𝒂𝒏𝒚 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒂𝒍𝒍 𝒓𝒆𝒈𝒖𝒍𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝒐𝒓 𝒐𝒗𝒆𝒓𝒔𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕.
The problem with that is that then the government has to get into the business of deciding what counts as a religion and what doesn't. Which gives an unfair advantage to religions that were founded too far in the past for there to be definitive evidence that their founders were frauds.
Valid point. Still seems that we ought to be able to construct some criteria that a "church" has to adhere to. As far as the IRS is concerned , they do have criteria for defining a "not for profit" organization.
No, the courts (all the way up to SCOTUS in Commissioner v. Hernandez) have ruled that Scientology is a for-profit business not entitled to tax exemption, but the IRS exempted them anyway (to stop Scientology's persistent harassment of its personnel).
It also means that since we're a multipolar society on just about every level, we have to have a common framework in which to communicate so we can get things done. Since most religions have a lot of exclusivity in them, that means we can't talk about religion while we're discussing common matters which affect all of us, whichever or none religion we adhere to.
It does take some mental discipline. But it's important. A few of my ancestors came here from France at a time when not being Catholic was a capital offense. Some of the rest came from parts of England and Scotland that went back and forth on whether being Catholic was or was not a capital offense. Between that, my familiar tendency to pick the side most obviously going to lose, and all the damn wars of Europe my ancestors refused to fight in; we figured running around in the woods with a bunch of damn Puritans was the better bet.
Having grown up with Catholicism, Lutheranism, Judaism, and Fundamentalist Protestantism, It was either lose my mind early on, or come to the conclusion that they were all equally the same nonsensical Bronze Age mythology. Given the fact that I am still sorta sane, ( I think ) it's obvious that I chose the latter course..
I was fortunately raised non-religious, although christened Anglican. My Catholic paternal grandmother took my sister and me to church a few times, with no success. My sister even went to a Pentecostal church with her best friend, and was almost scarred for life when they began speaking in tongues. My Muslim maternal grandfather was too moderate to try to indoctrinate his own kids, let alone his grandchildren. My dad has always been strongly anti-organized religion, my mom waffles between various forms of spirituality, but has always had a soft-spot for Ancient Greek and Roman mythology. As a child, I used to think that the 'God'/Jehovah/ Yayweh etc. that Christians and Jews worshipped was the same god as the Jove/Jupiter/Zeus that the ancient Greeks and Romans worshipped. Needless to say, any monotheistic person I tried to discuss this with was not pleased.
Seems reasonable Depictions of the Hebrew God and Zeus look very similar. Long flowing white bear etc. Since all of Western Civilization is male dominated the Supreme Being is assumed to be the “chief” old man
There are no depictions of the Hebrew God: that is strictly forbidden. There is no suggestion in any text that the Hebrew God has a beard.
My parents were lapsed Protestants. Dad was raised Episcopalian, and Mom Presbyterian.
Mom's Dad was a very devout man, and exceptionally well-liked in his rural southern Indiana town. He was also the county Republican Party Chair until 1980. In 1980, the fundagelicals took over and kicked him out because he believed, because not despite his deep faith, that it was extremely important to keep one's religion out of public matters. That deeply hurt him.
My parents taught us kids the basics of all the world's major religions, past and present. They found kids-versions of some of the great texts. We read Greek, Norse, Celtic and Egyptian myths, an amazing and weird version of the Ramayana, The Epic of Gilgamesh, kid-sanitized stuff from the Bible and Koran, some of the non-Old Testament Jewish stuff.
What impressed me most was the overall similarity. People generally agree what decent and desirable behavior is, and what it isn't. The differences seem to mostly stem from geography. When you're in the desert, don't eat the shellfish; and you can't refuse water to even your worst enemy. When you're in a frozen hellscape, you have to share warmth. When you're being chased all over by people who want to kill you, it's important to stick together.
It's when people focus on the weird little details that things start going wrong. What do I care if God is three different beings, or the same thing three different ways? I know it's wine, or grape juice; I know we're just pretending it's blood; why is that a problem? Drinking blood is the kind of thing that really should stay symbolic anyway, dontcha think?
Much like how I was raised, and have raised the Kid, as a Unitarian. The slightly old-fashioned kind, in no amen-ing, nor much reference at all to Jesus etc.
Can we give Trump to the scientologists?
Seems fair...
i was surprised they never infiltrated his white house.
point of fact: i would rather scientology calling the shots under trump2.0 than palantir.
A Scientologist, Joy Villa, did infiltrate the Trump entourage. Diamond & Silk despised her, and she was drummed out after accusing Corey Lewandowski of groping her rump.
we needed more.
If the Scientologists gave Trump money, he'd make Miscarriage or whatever his name is Secretary of Health and Human Services or something.
They don't want him. He's too crazy for them When you're too crazy to be a Scientologist, you run for President!!
TBF, anyone who thinks that anyone outside their religion would agree with the wacko shit they believe is an idiot. Whether the religion has 100 adherents or 100,000,000.
It’s all institutionalized superstition but still superstition.
I’ve always thought organized religion is the worst religion. Let ‘em worship trees and rocks and shit.
Trump supporters claim to like straight, plain talk. Well how about this? Donald Trump is a dangerous nutcase who belongs in a mental institution, not the White House!! Straight and plain enough?
"No, not like that!"
Lock him up!!