I was too upset to post this yesterday: I'm wondering whether this SCOTUS immunity ruling will affect how the Trump enablers in certain states and in Congress will be prosecuted by the DOJ in federal courts or by prosecutors in state courts, should it ever happen going forward. IANAL, but feel free to point me to discussions about this elsewhere if you think they could help me to understand.
@Brando - I concur with you but I have been fighting back my entire life. At best, I've been left alone to live my life. At worst, I've been sexually harassed and bypassed for promotions because I'm a woman. I'm sick of being taken for granted, patted on the head and told, "There, there. Things are slowly getting better." Even after Roe was overturned, white Democratic men were saying that women were overreacting and equated abortion access to owning a gun.
Now that privileged white men are seeing that they are not safe, hopefully, we will see the change we ALL need.
I would say it goes back to Howard Dean, for not pushing back on the whole "scream" thing, I mean it was a rally ferchristsake, and the widely circulated clip had his mic isolated. A 5 second audio clip is the reason we had a 2nd Bush term.
I still mourn the death of the US every December 12. That was the day Scalia stopped the Florida recount in 2000, ending the bedrock principle that elections are decided by determining what the voters wanted: that principle is pre-constitutional, since the Constitution itself has no legal standing except because We the People ratified it, so pulling out that foundation stone meant that our government would rest on sand ever after.
I think President Biden should test the new legal theory that he’s immune from prosecution, if orders Seal Team Six to assassinate six thorns in his side.
***************
The idea of a universal executive, by Republican legal minds, came out of the realization that Republicans spooked to easily in not backing Nixon during Watergate. They have wanted to make sure a Republican president is never harmed by what he does in office.
Second, the entire conservative legal movement has its roots in conservatives opposition to “Brown v. Board of Education” and subsequent decisions that expanded individual rights. The Federal Society and whatever other Republican legal thought is out there derives from this opposition to decisions from Brown to now that increase individual liberty.
Expect future decisions to right these “wrongs” conservatives have been angry about for 70 years.
Since presidents are imbued with kingly powers now, what happens if Biden signs an executive order that says "presidents previous to me have no immunity"?
It’s really ironic that on this day, the day the North American part that stayed with Britain got self-government in a bill that had no discussion and was crammed in between corn bills, the American experiment comes to an ignominious end because the guy from The Apprentice didn’t want to face prosecution for years of grifting.
Democrats don’t understand this is a life or death struggle or whatever exactly Sam Alito said at the Supreme Court Historical Society dinner. There’s going to be a winner. Compromise and comity aren’t on the table.
The younger newer members of the House get this, like Crockett and Raskin.
I don’t think the old folks in the Senate understand that the institutions they are trying to protect have already rotted from the inside. All it’ll take is Republican control of Congress and the White House to knock those structures down.
Better for Democrats to tear them down and replace them with something sturdier.
Can someone clarify-- if Trump and his Atty Gnl discuss and plan to murder someone, especially someone also in government-- then he is immune from prosecution? Is it really that bald? As long as you're conspiring to commit or committing a crime with someone in your govt, it's okay? I cannot be understanding this correctly.
And it will only apply to him, because they left it vague so no Democratic president will be able to use it. They can then redefine it, skewing to originalism’s actual opinion on kings (I.e. nope) and disallow it.
This will require another court to set it aside. A stacked one that can override the 6. They need to bump up to 13.
The majority of the court was appointed by Presidents the people never wanted to put in the White House in the first place. This has never happened before.
After taking in the shock, and a few well reasoned articles in the last few hours, I find myself slightly heartened. While so much of the US decent toward fascism has been, and continues to be, terrifying, at least we have a large, vocal population dedicated to resistance and putting an end to the power grab. We are the majority, even if the polls show it's tight, and we are NOT placidly going to accept King Donny the same way the Germans accepted Hitler.
Sure, one of the branches of government long considered the final guardrail is now the third rail, but we're smart, we're tough, and we're not going down without a fight in every circumstance.
This sucks, and the future certainly holds far greater suck, but damn it, we never give up the ship!
We'll be dead, in prison, attacked by MAGA, and strangled by rapacious pricing and "services," and taxed more heavily, monitored by neighbors and our own "smart houses, " while democracy dies for dollars.
You are assuming Trump will not order his DOJ to arrest anyone who protests too much, since damn near anything a president does, especially in person with other government officials, has been granted immunity.
I fully expect Biden to be jailed at 12:01 p.m., January 20, 2025, pending charges by Trump’s DOJ.
Realistically one of your unseen guardrails is your public service. You have until inauguration for them to jam shit in the gears. On the day after inauguration there will be a mass pogrom of federal civil servants.
I am from Saskatchewan and this is how it goes: in 1982 I believe it was, a Conservative government came into power after years of New Democratic Party rule. First day after the Cons were sworn in, every employee in the Legislature was called to the cafeteria. They were told to wait there, and if they had a job someone would come get them. If not, they were fired for being “partisan”.
This is what will happen once Trump is elected, because Project 2025 knows civil servants are the last of the last guardrails.
Excellent point, and thank you for sharing that experience. Wisconsin had a mini purge like that when Walker took over, but this is obviously of a different magnitude.
We will need to message and GOTV like crazy to stop this tide, but we do have our voices as long as we vote and our votes are counted in November. Now, if something funky happens and the election lands at SCOTUS like 2000, we're gonna need Plans D-Q.
I wasn’t old enough to be impacted by that but when I did work for provincial civil service someone who was told me as a cautionary tale they told all new civil servants, with the moral being NEVER DISCUSS POLITICS AT WORK, EVER.
Works when you’re no longer a civil servant too just for politeness.
Unfortunately I don’t think US federal civil servants have that luxury anymore. Right now a lot will be writing out a pro/con list and reviewing their investments and how many years to pension because they just can’t. Resumes are being polished. Quiet resistance is being planned. But they’ve been at it for the weekend because of the setting aside of Chevron.
The Shock Doctrine: Now with more shocks!
I was too upset to post this yesterday: I'm wondering whether this SCOTUS immunity ruling will affect how the Trump enablers in certain states and in Congress will be prosecuted by the DOJ in federal courts or by prosecutors in state courts, should it ever happen going forward. IANAL, but feel free to point me to discussions about this elsewhere if you think they could help me to understand.
@Brando - I concur with you but I have been fighting back my entire life. At best, I've been left alone to live my life. At worst, I've been sexually harassed and bypassed for promotions because I'm a woman. I'm sick of being taken for granted, patted on the head and told, "There, there. Things are slowly getting better." Even after Roe was overturned, white Democratic men were saying that women were overreacting and equated abortion access to owning a gun.
Now that privileged white men are seeing that they are not safe, hopefully, we will see the change we ALL need.
Real big thanks to all those people who just couldn’t vote for Clinton
Damn right.
I would say it goes back to Howard Dean, for not pushing back on the whole "scream" thing, I mean it was a rally ferchristsake, and the widely circulated clip had his mic isolated. A 5 second audio clip is the reason we had a 2nd Bush term.
I still mourn the death of the US every December 12. That was the day Scalia stopped the Florida recount in 2000, ending the bedrock principle that elections are decided by determining what the voters wanted: that principle is pre-constitutional, since the Constitution itself has no legal standing except because We the People ratified it, so pulling out that foundation stone meant that our government would rest on sand ever after.
He knew too much and was rewarded with a quiet death in his bed.
You know who doesn't have immunity from things done in an official capacity? Every other fucker that worked for him.
That is what pardons are for!
I think President Biden should test the new legal theory that he’s immune from prosecution, if orders Seal Team Six to assassinate six thorns in his side.
***************
The idea of a universal executive, by Republican legal minds, came out of the realization that Republicans spooked to easily in not backing Nixon during Watergate. They have wanted to make sure a Republican president is never harmed by what he does in office.
Second, the entire conservative legal movement has its roots in conservatives opposition to “Brown v. Board of Education” and subsequent decisions that expanded individual rights. The Federal Society and whatever other Republican legal thought is out there derives from this opposition to decisions from Brown to now that increase individual liberty.
Expect future decisions to right these “wrongs” conservatives have been angry about for 70 years.
Trump can now cry fire in crowded theatre and not be prosecuted.
If he’s president, he can order Seal Team Six to set the theatre on fire and be immune from prosecution.
Since presidents are imbued with kingly powers now, what happens if Biden signs an executive order that says "presidents previous to me have no immunity"?
But Hunter! So no go, son.
This is, uh, a bad day.
So when Trump directly called the Proud Boys to "Stand back and stand by" then this was also an official act, according to this SCOTUS.
It’s really ironic that on this day, the day the North American part that stayed with Britain got self-government in a bill that had no discussion and was crammed in between corn bills, the American experiment comes to an ignominious end because the guy from The Apprentice didn’t want to face prosecution for years of grifting.
What a weirdass Canada Day.
time for Biden to commit some crimes.
Yeah, he could get sushi and not pay!
+1 Repo Man reference
So, SCOTUS has pretty much said, "Hello fascism! We're here for you. How can we help?"
Then I expect a thousand challenges to every aspect, in every state to the November election? And how will SCOTUS rule on those I wonder?
We are so fucked.
Proper fucked.
I'm afraid I don't see OHJB or the Dems packing the Court, even as the only real alternative. PAB is describing this as a big win. It is, sadly.
Democrats don’t understand this is a life or death struggle or whatever exactly Sam Alito said at the Supreme Court Historical Society dinner. There’s going to be a winner. Compromise and comity aren’t on the table.
The younger newer members of the House get this, like Crockett and Raskin.
I don’t think the old folks in the Senate understand that the institutions they are trying to protect have already rotted from the inside. All it’ll take is Republican control of Congress and the White House to knock those structures down.
Better for Democrats to tear them down and replace them with something sturdier.
Can someone clarify-- if Trump and his Atty Gnl discuss and plan to murder someone, especially someone also in government-- then he is immune from prosecution? Is it really that bald? As long as you're conspiring to commit or committing a crime with someone in your govt, it's okay? I cannot be understanding this correctly.
Oh, I think you are understanding it correctly. There is no longer any rule of law for the President. At least that one.
Yes.
And it will only apply to him, because they left it vague so no Democratic president will be able to use it. They can then redefine it, skewing to originalism’s actual opinion on kings (I.e. nope) and disallow it.
This will require another court to set it aside. A stacked one that can override the 6. They need to bump up to 13.
The Sinister Six Justices have decided they are the final say on what the other branches of government can do and they are immune from accountability.
I'd argue that upping the membership to 13 is "unstacking" the present "court".
The majority of the court was appointed by Presidents the people never wanted to put in the White House in the first place. This has never happened before.
True that!
" They can then redefine it, skewing to originalism’s actual opinion on kings (I.e. nope) and disallow it."
Yep. It's a Catch 22 sort of....
Oh they 💯left it vague on purpose so they could do just that.
It’s not logical, but that’s essentially what several analysts say it means.
They’re trusting Joe not to do anything before the election, then it won’t matter because they don’t intend to relinquish power.
Yup. You don’t publish Project 2025 with the expectation you’ll lose in 2026 or 2028 and beyond.
After taking in the shock, and a few well reasoned articles in the last few hours, I find myself slightly heartened. While so much of the US decent toward fascism has been, and continues to be, terrifying, at least we have a large, vocal population dedicated to resistance and putting an end to the power grab. We are the majority, even if the polls show it's tight, and we are NOT placidly going to accept King Donny the same way the Germans accepted Hitler.
Sure, one of the branches of government long considered the final guardrail is now the third rail, but we're smart, we're tough, and we're not going down without a fight in every circumstance.
This sucks, and the future certainly holds far greater suck, but damn it, we never give up the ship!
We'll be dead, in prison, attacked by MAGA, and strangled by rapacious pricing and "services," and taxed more heavily, monitored by neighbors and our own "smart houses, " while democracy dies for dollars.
Our grandchildren might do something about it.
"The law is for the little people."
You are assuming Trump will not order his DOJ to arrest anyone who protests too much, since damn near anything a president does, especially in person with other government officials, has been granted immunity.
I fully expect Biden to be jailed at 12:01 p.m., January 20, 2025, pending charges by Trump’s DOJ.
💪
Realistically one of your unseen guardrails is your public service. You have until inauguration for them to jam shit in the gears. On the day after inauguration there will be a mass pogrom of federal civil servants.
I am from Saskatchewan and this is how it goes: in 1982 I believe it was, a Conservative government came into power after years of New Democratic Party rule. First day after the Cons were sworn in, every employee in the Legislature was called to the cafeteria. They were told to wait there, and if they had a job someone would come get them. If not, they were fired for being “partisan”.
This is what will happen once Trump is elected, because Project 2025 knows civil servants are the last of the last guardrails.
Excellent point, and thank you for sharing that experience. Wisconsin had a mini purge like that when Walker took over, but this is obviously of a different magnitude.
We will need to message and GOTV like crazy to stop this tide, but we do have our voices as long as we vote and our votes are counted in November. Now, if something funky happens and the election lands at SCOTUS like 2000, we're gonna need Plans D-Q.
I wasn’t old enough to be impacted by that but when I did work for provincial civil service someone who was told me as a cautionary tale they told all new civil servants, with the moral being NEVER DISCUSS POLITICS AT WORK, EVER.
Works when you’re no longer a civil servant too just for politeness.
Unfortunately I don’t think US federal civil servants have that luxury anymore. Right now a lot will be writing out a pro/con list and reviewing their investments and how many years to pension because they just can’t. Resumes are being polished. Quiet resistance is being planned. But they’ve been at it for the weekend because of the setting aside of Chevron.