Unfortunately, universal healthcare is not the answer. I talked to a Canadian about this very subject, and they hated it. If you have a condition that needs surgery, you are put in a Q and when it’s your turn- well, your condition may have gotten worse and beyond help, or you’ve died. The elderly will die because they are usually last in the Q. Many Canadians buy health insurance in the US so they can be treated more quickly. Anyway- people on Medicaid already have a form of it. They pay nothing and get treated, so I really don’t understand the logic here. Granted, it would be nice for average Joe to have more affordable healthcare- I’d be for that.
Ah yes, please tell us again how America is exceptional? How it's the greatest country in the world? Even moreso than millions of people falling for Trump's lies and voting against their own self-interest ... is the billions of people who still believe America is great.
I'm in Australia, covered by taxpayer funded health care. I had to have a large melanoma removed, and the wound closed with a split skin graft. Here's a breakdown of the costs to me.
Where I paid 100% of the service:
- nothing.
Where the service was heavily subsidised but I paid a "gap" fee:
- initial biopsy
- initial visit to the surgeon.
Where the service was fully covered and I didn't pay a cent:
- all costs of surgery: theatre fees, surgeon, anaesthesia, the lot.
- overnight stay in hospital.
- all pathology tests
- all dressings and dressing changes
- follow up visit with the surgeon
- follow up visit with GP.
Total cost to me; around A$300.
I literally can't imagine the constant terror. America, you deserve better.
My husband and I have both been fortunate, after working our way through school, to be able to earn a decent living. In addition to payroll tax deductions, we've also paid additional taxes annually on earned income. It has never bothered either of us. Taxes pay for civilization. You don't have to be a genius to understand that people who don't even earn enough to pay income tax, are still paying sales tax, service fees, and the extremely high "tax" of being impoverished - limited access to health care, housing, healthy nutrition, higher education, etc., etc. When rich assholes whine about paying taxes, maybe we need to explain that their failure to contribute to civilization means they are domestic terrorists, and send them to Gitmo.
And also? YOU CANNOT HAVE a strong, successful, productive, forward-moving country with a weak, sickly, uneducated, impoverished citizenry. It is in the entire country's interest for its citizens to be healthy, productive, and educated! It's absolutely insane that the ultra-right-wing billionaires who own insurance companies have managed to disinform so many people (although, keeping them sickly and stupid obviously helps them). ARGHHHH.
The most infuriating part of all this is that if very rich people paid enough in taxes to provide some basic human rights and services to everyone, they would Still Be Very Rich.
I can get not wanting to impoverish yourself - I mean, I don't want to impoverish myself for my fellow man, either. But I'm not living in poverty, and I can support paying reasonable taxes in order to help people who are. What kind of monster doesn't?
Not only that, but we mid-level folks pay far far FAR more proportionally (and probably in actual $$) in taxes than those ultra-rich assholes. We're carrying them.
The very wealthy are most definitely not paying their fair share. There are over 800 billionaires in the US alone, almost 30% of the billionaires in the world. (Forbes makes a list every year; these are the 2024 stats.) With the Trump tax cuts they got on top of all the tax cuts they'd already bought over the past 4+ decades, they're paying far less of their income (by percentage) than almost all of us who aren't wealthy.
If they would just pay even part of their fair share, we could erase a lot of the hunger and homelessness and poverty in this country almost overnight.
The greedy, stingy, rich fuckers what own us can’t even tolerate Obamacare which still empowers greedy rich fuckers, Medicaid, Medicare? That’s right out. Until we break the oligarchy, we can’t win.
When you get into a minor car accident and the fire department and ambulance respond along with the police. And the EMTs are “we just want to check you out, ask some questions make sure you weren’t hurt.” Have to add “it’s no cost unless we take you somewhere” because people are so afraid of the costs you know you live in America.
Before Obamacare I had to take an ambulance. That ambulance trip cost me $800, more money than the surgery or any other part of my care. It was not covered by my insurance, and I was hesitant to get into the vehicle at all. I was injured, yet having a panic attack over what that ambulance ride was going to cost me, my employer having switched to a high deductible policy months before.
I will never forget that fear, and trying to keep my neighbors from calling the ambulance because of it.
The only solution is to turn out voters. Without majorities in both chambers as well as control of the Oval, there won't be the slightest change.
And make sure to mention that to the purists who are upset Walz hunts or Harris laughs or their candidate(s) for the Senate and House are not perfect, so they plan to vote for Kennedy, some other loon, or not vote at all.
The year I studied abroad, I encountered a universal healthcare system, and I came back to the US and have tried to tell everyone that will listen how much better it can be. They won't listen though. They gripe about prices but are convinced universal healthcare would be worse because "communism" or some stupid shit.
But my taxes will go up. Maybe, but will they go up more than what you pay for insurance and out of pocket healthcare costs. And I’m talking a good year with “good insurance”.
But I may have to wait for healthcare, someone from Canada said it took 6 months for an X-ray. Maybe, did you get all the details on that? So how do you know there wasn’t something else. And maybe the wait times go up, especially at first. But once you get everyone getting regular preventative care, then the wait times will probably go down.
I'm a Canadian with a lot of chronic health issues, and my experience is that while you might wait for quite a while for non urgent care, when I was having heart issues last fall, I was seen right away. Half a dozen doctors, tons of tests including things like echocardiograms and CT scans, hasn't cost me a dime except for $25 bucks each for every three months worth of various meds. I'd say my entire costs including parking for a year's worth of pretty intensive doctoring has been about $300. Maybe less.
Ms. O had a heart attack a few years back. A few months later, the bills for what the insurance didn't cover started coming in (20%) from the hospital, the cardiologist, the anesthesiologists, etc. Just LLC after LLC.
I had to put all of them on three-month payment plans and set it up in a spread sheet to keep track of all the payments.
Similar experiences. I'm on several medications that I pay nothing for, because my income is below the cutoff line. That's what I paid my taxes for my whole life for. Americans are simply not getting a good deal for their taxes.
Yeah, I sat down and figured it out after I wrote that, and the only reason it's as high as it is is because it took a bit to figure out the right medication. So $75 of that is three meds that I ended up not finishing
In my experience the wait times in Canada for emergency services, etc, were never any worse than they are in the US and actually not as bad on many occasions. The wait complaints are usually in regard to non-emergency surgeries and treatments. They operate in a first come first serve basis and therefore you don't get to jump line because your insurance is better or you have more cash. If you see Canadians coming to the US for healthcare, it's almost always because they don't want to wait for the plebs in front of them to get treatment, and they have the cash to pay out of pocket for our ridiculously overpriced healthcare.
The number of people travelling from Canada to the US for medical care amounts to far less than one per cent of the total, and some of those are going to the US for specialized treatments for rare diseases that are only properly treated in a handful of places.
I teach lip reading and communication skills classes to the hard of hearing. Had a student who was not interested in doing the work to improve his communication skills because he was a big important business man who had no time for that nonsense.
He did not qualify for a cochlear implant here, which are only given if you have profound loss and are a good candidate in other ways. Plus the focus is on getting them to the kids who need them, and adults usually have somewhat longer waits.
So he went to the states, paid out of pocket many thousands for something he would have gotten here for free if he'd really needed it. He never did come back and tell us if he was happy with it - I suspect not because while it's a great solution, it's not an easy fix either, for most people.
Yep. I moved to the UK 13 years ago and finally went to a doctor about 7 years ago because of my American mindset that, unless you want to potentially live in massive medical debt for the rest of your life, you don't go to a doctor unless you think you might be dying. It's great—my dental care costs tens of pounds instead of thousands of dollars, and the feeling of going to ER and walking right out after treatment without having to fork over co-pays or sign paperwork for a payment plan is amazing. Every time I've been back to the States, I tell people about how awesome universal healthcare is and they're convinced the taxes to pay for it would be crippling. "But how much do you pay in insurance premiums and co-pays? You'd pay less in taxes for national healthcare." That's when they switch to Donald Sutherland at the end of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and screech "SOOOOCIALLLIST!" It's maddening.
I heard a woman telling this crazy story about a political party in the USA that runs on taking away healthcare from 23M folks, and punishing women further by closing Planned Parenthood centers; and they have a good shot at taking the Senate and Presidency in the elections this year.
Unfortunately, universal healthcare is not the answer. I talked to a Canadian about this very subject, and they hated it. If you have a condition that needs surgery, you are put in a Q and when it’s your turn- well, your condition may have gotten worse and beyond help, or you’ve died. The elderly will die because they are usually last in the Q. Many Canadians buy health insurance in the US so they can be treated more quickly. Anyway- people on Medicaid already have a form of it. They pay nothing and get treated, so I really don’t understand the logic here. Granted, it would be nice for average Joe to have more affordable healthcare- I’d be for that.
Ah yes, please tell us again how America is exceptional? How it's the greatest country in the world? Even moreso than millions of people falling for Trump's lies and voting against their own self-interest ... is the billions of people who still believe America is great.
You can get better healthcare almost everywhere, but you can’t pay more for it.
Ta, Robyn. Perfectly said.
I'm in Australia, covered by taxpayer funded health care. I had to have a large melanoma removed, and the wound closed with a split skin graft. Here's a breakdown of the costs to me.
Where I paid 100% of the service:
- nothing.
Where the service was heavily subsidised but I paid a "gap" fee:
- initial biopsy
- initial visit to the surgeon.
Where the service was fully covered and I didn't pay a cent:
- all costs of surgery: theatre fees, surgeon, anaesthesia, the lot.
- overnight stay in hospital.
- all pathology tests
- all dressings and dressing changes
- follow up visit with the surgeon
- follow up visit with GP.
Total cost to me; around A$300.
I literally can't imagine the constant terror. America, you deserve better.
A few years ago, aged 66, found myself collapsed on a sidewalk, mid-afternoon, going to a convenience store, after: What just happened?
Extreme pain.
Ambulance, less than a minute, someone saw & called?...
they think, heart attack. I think, incredible muscle spasms, and can't talk .
When I can breathe and talk, they ask if I want to go to the Emergency Ward at nearest hospital.
I say, TO YOUR POINT,
Who's paying?
I wonder if Flava Flav had a serious talk with Snoop about putting his money where his mouth is.
My husband and I have both been fortunate, after working our way through school, to be able to earn a decent living. In addition to payroll tax deductions, we've also paid additional taxes annually on earned income. It has never bothered either of us. Taxes pay for civilization. You don't have to be a genius to understand that people who don't even earn enough to pay income tax, are still paying sales tax, service fees, and the extremely high "tax" of being impoverished - limited access to health care, housing, healthy nutrition, higher education, etc., etc. When rich assholes whine about paying taxes, maybe we need to explain that their failure to contribute to civilization means they are domestic terrorists, and send them to Gitmo.
And also? YOU CANNOT HAVE a strong, successful, productive, forward-moving country with a weak, sickly, uneducated, impoverished citizenry. It is in the entire country's interest for its citizens to be healthy, productive, and educated! It's absolutely insane that the ultra-right-wing billionaires who own insurance companies have managed to disinform so many people (although, keeping them sickly and stupid obviously helps them). ARGHHHH.
YOU CANNOT HAVE a strong, successful, productive, forward-moving country with a weak, sickly, uneducated, impoverished citizenry
This is a feature, not a bug, for the GOP.
Keep them desperate, keep them ignorant, keep them poor, and you can control them.
Yes, exactly! What's astonishing to me is how so many imbeciles go along with it.
The most infuriating part of all this is that if very rich people paid enough in taxes to provide some basic human rights and services to everyone, they would Still Be Very Rich.
I can get not wanting to impoverish yourself - I mean, I don't want to impoverish myself for my fellow man, either. But I'm not living in poverty, and I can support paying reasonable taxes in order to help people who are. What kind of monster doesn't?
Not only that, but we mid-level folks pay far far FAR more proportionally (and probably in actual $$) in taxes than those ultra-rich assholes. We're carrying them.
The very wealthy are most definitely not paying their fair share. There are over 800 billionaires in the US alone, almost 30% of the billionaires in the world. (Forbes makes a list every year; these are the 2024 stats.) With the Trump tax cuts they got on top of all the tax cuts they'd already bought over the past 4+ decades, they're paying far less of their income (by percentage) than almost all of us who aren't wealthy.
If they would just pay even part of their fair share, we could erase a lot of the hunger and homelessness and poverty in this country almost overnight.
Raise or remove the income cap on Social Security also, too. Voilà. The raid on Social Security funded Bush's war, and HAS NEVER BEEN REPAID.
The greedy, stingy, rich fuckers what own us can’t even tolerate Obamacare which still empowers greedy rich fuckers, Medicaid, Medicare? That’s right out. Until we break the oligarchy, we can’t win.
When you get into a minor car accident and the fire department and ambulance respond along with the police. And the EMTs are “we just want to check you out, ask some questions make sure you weren’t hurt.” Have to add “it’s no cost unless we take you somewhere” because people are so afraid of the costs you know you live in America.
Before Obamacare I had to take an ambulance. That ambulance trip cost me $800, more money than the surgery or any other part of my care. It was not covered by my insurance, and I was hesitant to get into the vehicle at all. I was injured, yet having a panic attack over what that ambulance ride was going to cost me, my employer having switched to a high deductible policy months before.
I will never forget that fear, and trying to keep my neighbors from calling the ambulance because of it.
The only solution is to turn out voters. Without majorities in both chambers as well as control of the Oval, there won't be the slightest change.
And make sure to mention that to the purists who are upset Walz hunts or Harris laughs or their candidate(s) for the Senate and House are not perfect, so they plan to vote for Kennedy, some other loon, or not vote at all.
Also if we get the Majority we need to add the State of Columbia and take it's two Senators and Representative. And end the Filibuster in the Senate!
...and revisit the possible statehood of the places we "own" (e.g., Puerto Rico). No taxation without representation.
I’m not sure there is a majority there for Statehood- they’d need to vote.
Agreed. But they should have that choice.
Oh yes, I would add them in a heartbeat if they approve.,,
We are the true third rate“shit hole” country with 99% of Americans being first rate people
𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘢𝘯 𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘵𝘩𝘤𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘺𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘮 𝘪𝘧 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘰𝘯𝘦. We look like fools.
That's because in this matter -- as well as many, many others -- we are.
The year I studied abroad, I encountered a universal healthcare system, and I came back to the US and have tried to tell everyone that will listen how much better it can be. They won't listen though. They gripe about prices but are convinced universal healthcare would be worse because "communism" or some stupid shit.
But my taxes will go up. Maybe, but will they go up more than what you pay for insurance and out of pocket healthcare costs. And I’m talking a good year with “good insurance”.
But I may have to wait for healthcare, someone from Canada said it took 6 months for an X-ray. Maybe, did you get all the details on that? So how do you know there wasn’t something else. And maybe the wait times go up, especially at first. But once you get everyone getting regular preventative care, then the wait times will probably go down.
I'm a Canadian with a lot of chronic health issues, and my experience is that while you might wait for quite a while for non urgent care, when I was having heart issues last fall, I was seen right away. Half a dozen doctors, tons of tests including things like echocardiograms and CT scans, hasn't cost me a dime except for $25 bucks each for every three months worth of various meds. I'd say my entire costs including parking for a year's worth of pretty intensive doctoring has been about $300. Maybe less.
Ms. O had a heart attack a few years back. A few months later, the bills for what the insurance didn't cover started coming in (20%) from the hospital, the cardiologist, the anesthesiologists, etc. Just LLC after LLC.
I had to put all of them on three-month payment plans and set it up in a spread sheet to keep track of all the payments.
Double billing is too common. Vultures.
Similar experiences. I'm on several medications that I pay nothing for, because my income is below the cutoff line. That's what I paid my taxes for my whole life for. Americans are simply not getting a good deal for their taxes.
In a year? Including parking?
Met a mid-60s dude last fall, living in his van, has to take handfuls of meds everyday, TO NOT JUST DIE!
I am ashamed to be an American, if this is the best we can do.
And for why?
Yeah, I sat down and figured it out after I wrote that, and the only reason it's as high as it is is because it took a bit to figure out the right medication. So $75 of that is three meds that I ended up not finishing
And no one really has a good answer for why the wealthiest nation in the history of the world has beggars at the end of every urban freeway exit ramp.
In my experience the wait times in Canada for emergency services, etc, were never any worse than they are in the US and actually not as bad on many occasions. The wait complaints are usually in regard to non-emergency surgeries and treatments. They operate in a first come first serve basis and therefore you don't get to jump line because your insurance is better or you have more cash. If you see Canadians coming to the US for healthcare, it's almost always because they don't want to wait for the plebs in front of them to get treatment, and they have the cash to pay out of pocket for our ridiculously overpriced healthcare.
The number of people travelling from Canada to the US for medical care amounts to far less than one per cent of the total, and some of those are going to the US for specialized treatments for rare diseases that are only properly treated in a handful of places.
I teach lip reading and communication skills classes to the hard of hearing. Had a student who was not interested in doing the work to improve his communication skills because he was a big important business man who had no time for that nonsense.
He did not qualify for a cochlear implant here, which are only given if you have profound loss and are a good candidate in other ways. Plus the focus is on getting them to the kids who need them, and adults usually have somewhat longer waits.
So he went to the states, paid out of pocket many thousands for something he would have gotten here for free if he'd really needed it. He never did come back and tell us if he was happy with it - I suspect not because while it's a great solution, it's not an easy fix either, for most people.
Yep. I moved to the UK 13 years ago and finally went to a doctor about 7 years ago because of my American mindset that, unless you want to potentially live in massive medical debt for the rest of your life, you don't go to a doctor unless you think you might be dying. It's great—my dental care costs tens of pounds instead of thousands of dollars, and the feeling of going to ER and walking right out after treatment without having to fork over co-pays or sign paperwork for a payment plan is amazing. Every time I've been back to the States, I tell people about how awesome universal healthcare is and they're convinced the taxes to pay for it would be crippling. "But how much do you pay in insurance premiums and co-pays? You'd pay less in taxes for national healthcare." That's when they switch to Donald Sutherland at the end of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and screech "SOOOOCIALLLIST!" It's maddening.
The training is complete Vader.
I heard a woman telling this crazy story about a political party in the USA that runs on taking away healthcare from 23M folks, and punishing women further by closing Planned Parenthood centers; and they have a good shot at taking the Senate and Presidency in the elections this year.
That's crazy talk!
Just one the many, many things that embarrasses me about America. But you're not supposed to say that—or you're a traitor!