I'm far less concerned about the NSA (under a responsible administration) purchasing location metadata than I am about far shadier characters being able to purchase that same data.
I've worked with NSA people - they really, really DGAF about normal people's day-to-day activities, they're looking for security threats.
I can see a bunch of political organizations, OTOH, purchasing and using the same data for oppo research and much, much worse.
I'm completely puzzled why this is considered "news", when we already knew this for sure in 2003 and have had it confirmed every couple of years since. Now, 21 years later, the press corpse (spelling intentional) wants the public to think that this is something new and revolutionary.
No, folks, this is not Slow Joe cleaning up the government, this is Business As Usual, and the practice will continue as long as it's cheaper and easier to buy the data then it is to harvest it themselves.
And I've also worked with former NSA people, the description that comes to mind is "paper pushers". Have you ever read the "threat assessments" they put out? Some of them would be hilarious if the fact that our tax dollars paid for them didn't ruin the joke.
And of course, if Trump or anyone like him manages to wrangle their way into power (again), that information will be used in any way that proves convenient for its value in augmenting their already dictatorial power.
Much of this blame goes back to Reagan. Chipped away at our rights daily.
Even before cellphones, info was being harvested. The markets with their"club" cards was a tracking system. What you purchased could be sold to your health provider...
With more and more modern inventions and better tracking systems... More can be held against you.
People would say "I have nothing to hide." My rejoinder was... ' Until they change the law. '
You've opened the door... They just change the reason to charge you..
And all too soon, one arrives at the 1984 level: nothing is technically illegal because the government doesn't want to pin itself down and thereby limit its powers, but any "offense" is always punishable by death.
Anything that goes against the Orange Fuhrer is Doubleplus Ungood. I like the claim, "Treason never prospers ... for if it does, none dare call it treason."
So if I order a new motherboard from Taiwan or even just send an email for tech support, the government is collecting my data? How about all those phone calls where outsourced people with Slavic accents are helping me reset my password? I talk to those folks a few times a year at least.
We certainly all owe thanks to Sen. Wyden for uncovering this.
What I personally am not so certain about is what to think about the NSA 𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘢𝘳 reaping and using metadata for legitimate national-security threats. AFAIK that can be a powerful tool to give clues as to overseas terrorism and other international crime.
But of course that gets inextricably bound up with the broader question of whether it's good for 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵, in general and in its many various forms, to be able to access this kind of data.
I guess what I'm saying is that, to the extent that the NSA and other agencies can justify their access to and use of this data, they should be allowed to do so, and it should be part of the conversation. That conversation should also include potential firewalls between government agencies that have unquestionably legitimate use for this data, and others that have little or none.
The secrecy has more to do with not drying up the availability of information than it does to do with what they use it for. Awareness may result in legislation to protect privacy like the EU has set up. Less likely here in the US as we don't do governance for citizens sake much anymore. Awareness also leads people to use what protections they can like VPNs and TOR, bowser cache clearing, encrypted email systems, etc. Nothing pisses off the powers that be than not having access to your information when they think they have a need for it.
"What Wyden wants now is for Haines to ensure that intelligence communities 'may only purchase data about Americans that meets the standard for legal data sales established by the FTC'”
While this is great, I'd prefer something that prevented these companies from collecting the info in the first place. In many cases, folks have little choice but to agree to whatever terms they're given.
Are you willing to pay for everything on the internet? Companies need to make money in order to provide the services they provide. The commonly available business plans are paywalls, showing ads, or selling data about the users. If you have a 4th business plan, you could be an MBA hero.
An ironically amusing Wonkette thing, 1/26/24: in a previous post (TABS I think), commenters were marvelling at and ridiculing the pre-regulated roadways in San Francisco circa 100 yrs. ago. Bumper car madness! Yet, somehow that was eventually organized for the general safety of all (more or less).
BUT NOW somehow, it's unthinkable that new stuff can be regulated? (AI, monopolies, flying fucking cars, whatever. )n Perhaps it would be useful to spend some of our apparently limitless energy here on political tactics and action?
I used to say that until my phone surreptitiously recorded a 5 min drunken conversation in a gay bar and damn near sent it to my tree surgeon as a voice memo.
I'm far less concerned about the NSA (under a responsible administration) purchasing location metadata than I am about far shadier characters being able to purchase that same data.
I've worked with NSA people - they really, really DGAF about normal people's day-to-day activities, they're looking for security threats.
I can see a bunch of political organizations, OTOH, purchasing and using the same data for oppo research and much, much worse.
I'm completely puzzled why this is considered "news", when we already knew this for sure in 2003 and have had it confirmed every couple of years since. Now, 21 years later, the press corpse (spelling intentional) wants the public to think that this is something new and revolutionary.
No, folks, this is not Slow Joe cleaning up the government, this is Business As Usual, and the practice will continue as long as it's cheaper and easier to buy the data then it is to harvest it themselves.
And I've also worked with former NSA people, the description that comes to mind is "paper pushers". Have you ever read the "threat assessments" they put out? Some of them would be hilarious if the fact that our tax dollars paid for them didn't ruin the joke.
We are living what's been told to us in "Survellance Capitalism".
And of course, if Trump or anyone like him manages to wrangle their way into power (again), that information will be used in any way that proves convenient for its value in augmenting their already dictatorial power.
Hey Fellow Wonkette Aficionado's, save me a crust of bread when we meet at the gulags!
Much of this blame goes back to Reagan. Chipped away at our rights daily.
Even before cellphones, info was being harvested. The markets with their"club" cards was a tracking system. What you purchased could be sold to your health provider...
With more and more modern inventions and better tracking systems... More can be held against you.
People would say "I have nothing to hide." My rejoinder was... ' Until they change the law. '
You've opened the door... They just change the reason to charge you..
And all too soon, one arrives at the 1984 level: nothing is technically illegal because the government doesn't want to pin itself down and thereby limit its powers, but any "offense" is always punishable by death.
Apparently we as a nation need a new definition of offense... Treason..
Anything that goes against the Orange Fuhrer is Doubleplus Ungood. I like the claim, "Treason never prospers ... for if it does, none dare call it treason."
So if I order a new motherboard from Taiwan or even just send an email for tech support, the government is collecting my data? How about all those phone calls where outsourced people with Slavic accents are helping me reset my password? I talk to those folks a few times a year at least.
We certainly all owe thanks to Sen. Wyden for uncovering this.
What I personally am not so certain about is what to think about the NSA 𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘢𝘳 reaping and using metadata for legitimate national-security threats. AFAIK that can be a powerful tool to give clues as to overseas terrorism and other international crime.
But of course that gets inextricably bound up with the broader question of whether it's good for 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵, in general and in its many various forms, to be able to access this kind of data.
I guess what I'm saying is that, to the extent that the NSA and other agencies can justify their access to and use of this data, they should be allowed to do so, and it should be part of the conversation. That conversation should also include potential firewalls between government agencies that have unquestionably legitimate use for this data, and others that have little or none.
I think if you throw enough money to any social media company, they’d sell you whatever data they’ve collected.
If you throw enough money at any social media company, they’d sell you their grandma and their first born child.
So, they know about my research into... {pause} ...human mating documentaries?
That shit is pure f(r)iction
Despite their spying on everyone, the NSA didn't warn anybody about the Jan. 6 insurrection., so what's the point in doing it?
excellent point
Better phrased than I would have written.
Charge every last one of them.
Anyone could see that coming...
The secrecy has more to do with not drying up the availability of information than it does to do with what they use it for. Awareness may result in legislation to protect privacy like the EU has set up. Less likely here in the US as we don't do governance for citizens sake much anymore. Awareness also leads people to use what protections they can like VPNs and TOR, bowser cache clearing, encrypted email systems, etc. Nothing pisses off the powers that be than not having access to your information when they think they have a need for it.
If you have a cell phone you really don't have privacy anymore.
Unless you turn it off and remove the battery.
"What Wyden wants now is for Haines to ensure that intelligence communities 'may only purchase data about Americans that meets the standard for legal data sales established by the FTC'”
While this is great, I'd prefer something that prevented these companies from collecting the info in the first place. In many cases, folks have little choice but to agree to whatever terms they're given.
Are you willing to pay for everything on the internet? Companies need to make money in order to provide the services they provide. The commonly available business plans are paywalls, showing ads, or selling data about the users. If you have a 4th business plan, you could be an MBA hero.
Somehow, they don't seem to differentiate between one or all means of making $$$.
Soshulize Google! It is the Information Highway after all.
Willing? Yes. Able? No, probably not. But maybe that's a positive rather than a negative.
"In a heated moment Friday during the E. Jean Carroll defamation trial, Federal Judge Lewis Kaplan threatened to send Trump lawyer Alina Habba to jail." Oh God what did I miss? https://www.meidastouch.com/news/judge-threatens-to-send-alina-habba-to-jail-during-carroll-trial
Heard that she laughed at the threat.
That would have been enough for me, to at the least fine her.
Feels like desperation time.
DO IT!
You know you want to do it!
And we all know they never will.
An ironically amusing Wonkette thing, 1/26/24: in a previous post (TABS I think), commenters were marvelling at and ridiculing the pre-regulated roadways in San Francisco circa 100 yrs. ago. Bumper car madness! Yet, somehow that was eventually organized for the general safety of all (more or less).
BUT NOW somehow, it's unthinkable that new stuff can be regulated? (AI, monopolies, flying fucking cars, whatever. )n Perhaps it would be useful to spend some of our apparently limitless energy here on political tactics and action?
This tendency hasn’t been helped by all the people saying, “Oh, who cares, my life is dull! They’re welcome to my boring data, lah-de-dah!”
I used to say that until my phone surreptitiously recorded a 5 min drunken conversation in a gay bar and damn near sent it to my tree surgeon as a voice memo.
"I have nothing to hide, so I don't care."
That will change some day... Sooner than they think, these days.