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Homero's avatar

I heard the title to this post in my head as sung by Karen Carpenter. Chef’s kiss!💋

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skinnercitycyclist's avatar

'Weirdos are also dragging up a 2021 statement in which a Delta diversity officer suggested that the phrase “ladies and gentlemen” in gate announcements might be modified, saying “We've asked ourselves, 'Is that as gender inclusive as we want to be?’”'

"Folks, we will have a slight delay in boarding..."

Problem solved, if it makes the fascists happy we can make it "Volks, we will have a slight delay in boarding..."

Also, in my quote above, check out the THREE sets of quote marks in the last sentence. Tor!

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Ward From Cali's avatar

That plane (a CRJ900) was descending awfully fast, flared early and then leveled out well before touchdown. Probably a failed go-around that was initiated too late, maybe with a sudden gust of tailwind resulting in a stall warning maybe 10 seconds before touchdown. I would guess that the approach was not stabilized and that they were chasing the glide slope. They seemed to be descending at about 1800 fpm at touchdown, which is fast but shouldn't be enough to collapse the gear. I wonder if it failed to lock.

Like most accidents, there were probably a number of things that went wrong.

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skinnercitycyclist's avatar

You seem to be informed, I saw mention that the pilot had attempted a "crab maneuver." Because of the cross winds?

I'm a German major (non-Wehrmacht).

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Ward From Cali's avatar

Yeah, that seems to be a part of it. I didn't really pick that part of it up. When you're crabbing, you're pointing your nose a bit into the wind to maintain a straight ground track. But you’ve gotta straighten out for touchdown. As the plane straightens, the trailing wing briefly accelerates just a bit, and the leading wing accelerates. The differential lift that creates will cause the plane to roll slightly if it's not correctly compensated for with alerons, and the leading wing will drop.

Anyway, looking at other footage, Petter Hornfeld of Mentour Pilot believes that the approach was stabilized, but he also noted how the nose dropped in the last seconds of the approach and thinks that they caught a severe tailwind gust. That probably started before the video I saw, and accounts for the rapid sinking of the aircraft. He also has questions about why the landing gear failed so completely. Damage, probably severe damage, would be expected, but total, catastrophic failure in a hard touchdown like this is a bit alarming. It's not necessarily a problem, landing gear is designed to shear off under curtain specified excessive loads and it's possible that in this particular case, the forces just happened to line up right. Investigators will still want to look hard at it, though. Even if the gear failed exactly the way it was designed to, this was a situation where you DON'T want it to shear off, and they may learn things to improve the design.

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skinnercitycyclist's avatar

Thanks!

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Mary Hall's avatar

BTW, fuck Delta Airlines because their CEO is a big-time MAGAt.

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skinnercitycyclist's avatar

F them for the last three times I flew with them.

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Vincent's avatar

Egads, I fly from ATL to SFO on Saturday. Fingers crossed.

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Doktor Zoom's avatar

Another post-hoc joke came to me: The crash appears to have at least partly resulted from Jennifer Anniston's biggest problem in Office Space: not enough flare.

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skinnercitycyclist's avatar

You have earned this "bored chimp rimshot gif."

;-)

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Ward From Cali's avatar

They WERE flared, but dropped the nose only seconds before touchdown. That suggests they thought they were stalling, or the avionics thought they were.

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Marcus Damicus's avatar

I'm just glad the Trumpenmeister stopped all government travel. Because, as George Costanza once said, "You couldn't pay me to get on a plane right now."

Fuck Ted Cruz.

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displacedCTYankee's avatar

Dr Zoom: Yes, as you say, the investigation into the cause and fault of the Toronto flip crash has just begun. So why not leave the crash out of stories about Trump's attempt to de-staff FAA until the crash cause and fault are determined? The root cause was wind -- ask any pilot. The FAULT has not been determined. Could have been controller. Could have been bad decision by pilot. Could have been some failure on the aircraft.

I hope the cause and fault are determined while there are still experts left at NTSB.

I was an FAA high-altitude controller fifty years ago. Unconnected to that, I have a good friend who is an IT contractor at the FAA;s tech center in NJ. He's had that job since 2006.

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Doktor Zoom's avatar

I make it very clear that it was an unsettling coincidence. But you know damn well that in similar circumstances, rightwing media wouldn't wait for a second to explicitly blame Biden — as they, and the CURRENT SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION — literally have in this very crash!

I stand by every word in this piece, including the typos, my god, the typos. And that includes the hed, which is a joke, as is traditional here.

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displacedCTYankee's avatar

I meant no disrespect. I made a comment yesterday about the MSM (not you necessarily) asking stupid questions because they know little or nothing about air traffic control or how airplanes fly. I just wish those interviewers would give the crash investigators time to do their jobs. When I wrote the comment I didn't know that Fox was already lying about the crash because I don't watch them. Of course, I should have expected them to.

Sometimes as a subject-matter expert (uh huh) I get negative feedback. It's all in the game. I'll shut up now even though I'm pretty sure I know exactly who was at fault in the crash (as I preached elsewhere there's a difference between "cause" and "fault"). Wind caused the crash. Fault is TBD. There's a danger I may be right about fault.

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Saviour of Bread's avatar

Reason a hundred and eleventy why I will not be flying to the US any time soon.

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Terentev Valerii's avatar

Both weather and air space was good. The root cause of the crash is not with the Air Traffic Control (ATC) but is most likely in the aircraft, which flew from Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. The aircraft is operated by an American company Delta under the FAA supervision. Preliminary, the landing gear cracked through the right wing because of the landing stress it could not bear.

Why? Perhaps because of poor maintenance or wear, both of which indicates poor supervision by the FAA. Why the FAA poorly supervising Delta (and other airliners)? Most likely because of the lack of professional inspectors.

The FAA certifies and oversees the maintenance. If the FAA does not have talent, their supervision is reduced, and risks grow. Trump-Musk has been disrupting the FAA and other agencies, including firing people.

The number of fatalities for Part 121* were 0 in 2021, 1 in 2021 (on 12/31/2022), 0 in 2023, 0 in 2024, many in Jan 2025 (on 01/29/2025). Compare: during Trump 1 there were 5 fatalities.

Query here: http://www.ntsb.gov/Pages/ResultsV2.aspx...

Visualise here: http://www.ntsb.gov/.../Pages/CivilAviationDashboard.aspx

*Regularly scheduled flights by air carriers certified by the FAA, such as large U.S.-based airlines, regional air carriers, and cargo operators (examples of Part 121 air carriers: American Airlines, Delta Air Airlines, Southwest Airlines, UPS, and FedEx.)

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Spleen Victoria's avatar

Fucking woke snow.

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Daniel O'Riordan's avatar

Mr. Secretary. Can you tell us how many plane crashes you believe we'll experience before you stop blaming your predecessor for all the problems happening on your watch?

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Terentev Valerii's avatar

In Toronto, both weather and air space were good. The root cause of the crash is not with the Air Traffic Control (ATC) but is most likely in the aircraft, which flew from Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. The aircraft is operated by an American company Delta under the FAA supervision. Preliminary, the landing gear cracked through the right wing because of the landing stress it could not bear.

Why? Perhaps because of poor maintenance or wear, both of which indicates poor supervision by the FAA. Why the FAA poorly supervising Delta (and other airliners)? Most likely because of the lack of professional inspectors.

The FAA certifies and oversees the maintenance. If the FAA does not have talent, their supervision is reduced, and risks grow. Trump-Musk has been disrupting the FAA and other agencies, including firing people.

---

The number of fatalities for Part 121* were 0 in 2021, 1 in 2021 (on 12/31/2022), 0 in 2023, 0 in 2024, many in Jan 2025 (on 01/29/2025). Compare: during Trump 1 there were 5 fatalities.

Query here: http://www.ntsb.gov/Pages/ResultsV2.aspx...

Visualise here: http://www.ntsb.gov/.../Pages/CivilAviationDashboard.aspx

*Regularly scheduled flights by air carriers certified by the FAA, such as large U.S.-based airlines, regional air carriers, and cargo operators (examples of Part 121 air carriers: American Airlines, Delta Air Airlines, Southwest Airlines, UPS, and FedEx.)

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DemoCat's avatar

Indeed, if this were 2024, Joe Biden would be personally responsible for all these crashes. I don’t believe Trump is responsible for them, although firing FAA staff is obviously foolish. But we are more thoughtful and critical thinking than most frothing Fox News addicts. Airplane crashes and mass firings are both bad, but not necessarily directly related, until we know more.

That cell phone video is incredible, and may be a vital piece of information for the investigation. It appears the plane simply came in hot, too steeply a decent and possibly had wind shear at the worst time and slammed down. The rear gear appeared to fail under the stress and the wing hit the ground. Absolutely a miracle that fire didn’t explode the entire plane and a miracle everyone survived. Flying is still safe, I believe. But nothing in America or anywhere is safe with a bloviating pathological liar and deeply corrupt criminal sitting in the Oval Office. If anything, these crashes are emblematic of a very unstable time.

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Terentev Valerii's avatar

Fox has been serenading disinfor that that there were double the number of fatalities.

In Toronto, both weather and air space were good. The root cause of the crash is not with the Air Traffic Control (ATC) but is most likely in the aircraft, which flew from Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. The aircraft is operated by an American company Delta under the FAA supervision. Preliminary, the landing gear cracked through the right wing because of the landing stress it could not bear. Why? Perhaps because of poor maintenance or wear, both of which indicates poor supervision by the FAA. Why the FAA poorly supervising Delta (and other airliners)? Most likely because of the lack of professional inspectors.

The FAA certifies and oversees the maintenance. If the FAA does not have talent, their supervision is reduced, and risks grow. Trump-Musk has been disrupting the FAA and other agencies, including firing people.

---

The number of fatalities for Part 121* were 0 in 2021, 1 in 2021 (on 12/31/2022), 0 in 2023, 0 in 2024, many in Jan 2025 (on 01/29/2025). Compare: during Trump 1 there were 5 fatalities.

Query here: http://www.ntsb.gov/Pages/ResultsV2.aspx...

Visualise here: http://www.ntsb.gov/.../Pages/CivilAviationDashboard.aspx

*Regularly scheduled flights by air carriers certified by the FAA, such as large U.S.-based airlines, regional air carriers, and cargo operators (examples of Part 121 air carriers: American Airlines, Delta Air Airlines, Southwest Airlines, UPS, and FedEx.)

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CI Carlson's avatar

Spoiler alert: Carpenters reference.

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BlueSpot's avatar

The Pottery Barn rule applies to Trump: You break it, you own it.

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Old Man Yells at Cloud's avatar

The Two Year Old rule applies to Orange Turd: If its shiny and he sees it, he claims it is his.

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BlueSpot's avatar

And when he breaks it, he always blames someone else. It’s never his fault.

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Zyxomma's avatar

Ta, Dok. Beloved husband Meccalopolis and I will not be traveling by air for the foreseeable future. I used to love to fly; when I was jetting around in 1984 on a BrasilAirpass on the now-defunct airline VASP, my flight music was Roxy Music's Avalon.

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displacedCTYankee's avatar

I last flew in January 2001.

Roxy Music's "Avalon" is one of the four song lyrics I cited in the frontispiece of my 2003 book.

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