Here is a Paradox, if you like such things: America is a Nation of Semi-Literate Buffoons, but America is also a Nation of Over-Educated (but still dumb) service workers. What? "In all, about 17 million people in this country have completed college only to end up working jobs that require a skill level below that of a bachelors degree, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics." That includes 5,057 janitors with Ph.Ds. What is so wrong with being a "maintenance engineer," we ask? At least it's a job, right? There's nothing wrong with it at all, it's just that you don't really need eight years of college and a hundred grand in student loan debt to mop up shit and blood in the emergency room, at night.
I had stupid amounts of 'perks' owning a Coffee shop/Art Gallery a few blocks from ASU in the 1980's and I all I got to show for it was herpes.
Great way to milk money out of idiots on those sex lines is to tell them to do stupid stuff like take their clothes off and stick a turkey baster up their butt. Always takes forever to find the turkey baster.
I get to deal with students who see the four-year degree as necessary for getting a job and are not interested in hearing that a liberal arts degree isn't vocational school. It's about having a well-rounded knowledge base and knowing that there are other ways of thinking and values. Drinking and sex also. Then I am reminded that they are paying $$$ to be here and they'd like to have jobs to at least pay that off. Really, my stepmom was talking to me about my niece's college plans and emphasized that she didn't want my niece "taking any classes that she didn't really need". I bit my tongue very hard. God forbid the child learn something that wasn't required for her diploma.
One reason is that to appeal to students, there is constant pressure to provide services and facilities that tend to amaze anyone who graduated before the 1990's. Computer labs, fitness facilities, well-decorated interiors, etc. At a lot of schools it's like any company: the higher-ups in administration are pulling down the real cash. God knows the faculty aren't, for the most part. You should be able to look up salaries at a state school; it's public information. I'll note that you see very few college professors obsessing about getting their own kids into a prestigious school.
I was an English major, so I definitely contribute to the glut of useless degrees, but I'm gainfully employed (though with enough time on my hands to read the Wonkettes throughout the day), and I was a lucky bastard who didn't have to pay a cent for college, so I guess it works out sometimes.
Really, though, our problem isn't that we're educating (or "educating" as the case may be) too many people, it's that any entry-level crap job nowadays requires a bachelor's, thus forcing people who shouldn't have to to get degrees they're not terribly interested in.
Then there is the distinction between "education" and "training," which Americans, in their usual utilitarian brilliance, conflate and distort in modern higher education. There's no reason why a liberal arts degree should "prepare" you for anything other than to be a more well-rounded human being. But since that doesn't make you any money, we feel we, individually and collectively, have to justify anything that isn't engineering or welding with bullshit about "developing critical thinking." Yeah, if you're educated well, you should get critical thinking skills, but, really, it's not a "job skill."
And, of course, there's an argument that our primary and secondary school systems have largely degenerated to the point where people need higher education just to get the basic skills, from reading to basic algebra, that they should already have gotten but didn't. One thing an English major does help with is writing; it's amazing how illiterate most students, from engineering nerds to even other bullshit degrees like PR, are.
Plus, there's all kinds of class and racial issues to consider, as well. Middle class people go to college, so since everyone thinks they're middle class, off they send their kids to college.
Also, college has become a rite of passage and stage of life as much as an educational vehicle. People want to get four (or five... or six...) years of partying and boinking and not having adult responsibilities before the decades of soul-crushing cube-farming that stretch before them kicks in.
So, basically, I guess what I'm saying is: kiss my English BA degree, Ken!
So her argument is that as more people are educated the return on this investment becomes less, in other words, the curve is not linear. It starts to level out at some point. Very few curves are linear when it comes to people Laura. Sounds to me like your really scraping at the bottom when, for the sake of belittling the current administration, you are arguing for the limitation of one of the few things low life scum, such as myself, can do to get themselves out of the slum and provide themselves a decent living. Education should be available for everyone with the balls to stick it out but I’m all for rescinding anyone’s degree who writes shit like your tripe.
I hate you Laura for making me write something serious.
Hitchhikers in chains are easy to train with a positive attitude and the right equipment.
I had stupid amounts of 'perks' owning a Coffee shop/Art Gallery a few blocks from ASU in the 1980's and I all I got to show for it was herpes.
I got graveyard, it is easier to go to grad school, lol.
Great way to milk money out of idiots on those sex lines is to tell them to do stupid stuff like take their clothes off and stick a turkey baster up their butt. Always takes forever to find the turkey baster.
You work retail too?
I get to deal with students who see the four-year degree as necessary for getting a job and are not interested in hearing that a liberal arts degree isn't vocational school. It's about having a well-rounded knowledge base and knowing that there are other ways of thinking and values. Drinking and sex also. Then I am reminded that they are paying $$$ to be here and they'd like to have jobs to at least pay that off. Really, my stepmom was talking to me about my niece's college plans and emphasized that she didn't want my niece "taking any classes that she didn't really need". I bit my tongue very hard. God forbid the child learn something that wasn't required for her diploma.
One reason is that to appeal to students, there is constant pressure to provide services and facilities that tend to amaze anyone who graduated before the 1990's. Computer labs, fitness facilities, well-decorated interiors, etc. At a lot of schools it's like any company: the higher-ups in administration are pulling down the real cash. God knows the faculty aren't, for the most part. You should be able to look up salaries at a state school; it's public information. I'll note that you see very few college professors obsessing about getting their own kids into a prestigious school.
Depressed? Cranky? Unemployed like me?
Humor is born from despair.
my BA in poli sci is why i got an MA in early modern european history and then went on to be an actor.
I was an English major, so I definitely contribute to the glut of useless degrees, but I'm gainfully employed (though with enough time on my hands to read the Wonkettes throughout the day), and I was a lucky bastard who didn't have to pay a cent for college, so I guess it works out sometimes.
Really, though, our problem isn't that we're educating (or "educating" as the case may be) too many people, it's that any entry-level crap job nowadays requires a bachelor's, thus forcing people who shouldn't have to to get degrees they're not terribly interested in.
Then there is the distinction between "education" and "training," which Americans, in their usual utilitarian brilliance, conflate and distort in modern higher education. There's no reason why a liberal arts degree should "prepare" you for anything other than to be a more well-rounded human being. But since that doesn't make you any money, we feel we, individually and collectively, have to justify anything that isn't engineering or welding with bullshit about "developing critical thinking." Yeah, if you're educated well, you should get critical thinking skills, but, really, it's not a "job skill."
And, of course, there's an argument that our primary and secondary school systems have largely degenerated to the point where people need higher education just to get the basic skills, from reading to basic algebra, that they should already have gotten but didn't. One thing an English major does help with is writing; it's amazing how illiterate most students, from engineering nerds to even other bullshit degrees like PR, are.
Plus, there's all kinds of class and racial issues to consider, as well. Middle class people go to college, so since everyone thinks they're middle class, off they send their kids to college.
Also, college has become a rite of passage and stage of life as much as an educational vehicle. People want to get four (or five... or six...) years of partying and boinking and not having adult responsibilities before the decades of soul-crushing cube-farming that stretch before them kicks in.
So, basically, I guess what I'm saying is: kiss my English BA degree, Ken!
So her argument is that as more people are educated the return on this investment becomes less, in other words, the curve is not linear. It starts to level out at some point. Very few curves are linear when it comes to people Laura. Sounds to me like your really scraping at the bottom when, for the sake of belittling the current administration, you are arguing for the limitation of one of the few things low life scum, such as myself, can do to get themselves out of the slum and provide themselves a decent living. Education should be available for everyone with the balls to stick it out but I’m all for rescinding anyone’s degree who writes shit like your tripe.
I hate you Laura for making me write something serious.
But wouldn't a janitor with a PhD in cleaning deserve higher wages?
THEY NEEDZ TO LEARN THE BIBLE & WHAT THE FOUNDERZ WANTED!!!!
And all the economists in the world laid end-to-end couldn't reach a conclusion.