It's true the Wonkette article is a little off. For one thing, the 28 pages were redacted from the 2002 congressional report written by Graham & others. FDF has confused that report with the 2004 9/11 Commission report by Kean & Hamilton. That's what she linked to.
I also think you're right that the Otaibai emails are about JASTA, not the 28 pages. As you say, Obama agreed to release those pages long before the 2016 RNC platform was written. He may have taken his time (I thought it was one year, not five) but when Otaiba wrote those emails the release process was well underway--and it was not a controversial or partisan issue. Even the Saudis wanted those pages released.
About the pages: Look, the whole US government may be covering for the Saudis. I have no way to judge that. I only know what was said when the pages were released.
Kean & Hamilton said the 28 pages from the 2002 congressional report were based almost entirely on raw, unvetted material that came to the FBI. They said, "The leads developed in 2002 were checked out as thoroughly as possible (for their 2004 report)" and there was "no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded" al-Qaida. "This conclusion does not exclude the likelihood that charities with significant Saudi government sponsorship diverted funds to al-Qaida."
When the pages were released, Obama and all members of the House Intelligence Committee said the same thing: that there was no evidence the Saudis were complicit. I'll spare you their quotes, except one from Diane Feinstein. She urged people to read ALL 9/11 reports before drawing conclusions about the 28 pages. There are many. She feared the 28 pages would feed conspiracy theories, UNLESS one read the later materials that explain how the issues resolved.
AGAIN, she and Obama and Schiff may all be lying. God knows there are plenty of 9/11 conspiracy theories. I have no opinion because I don't have the bandwidth to delve into the details.
My point was for people reading the Wonkette article. If they think Manafort permanently blocked the release of the redacted pages (which is the impression I got from the article): it didn't happen. The pages were released in June 2016. Otaiba's emails were written after Obama's decision and the House Intelligence Committee's vote to release them.
If they think Manafort successfully pulled off a coverup of Saudi involvement in 9/11: that didn't happen either. If there's a coverup, Bush, Obama, Kean, Hamilton and congressmen on both sides of the aisle got it rolling long before Trump hired Manafort.
I glanced at the pages and saw minor redactions, stuff like addresses and phone numbers. Maybe there are more. I've done enough homework on this article. Not going to do more.
I do think FDF missed the real issue with the Otaibai/Barrack emails.
Oh wait, rereading your post. YES, the 28 pages are entirely about issues with the Saudis. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. The thing is the 2002 congressional report was the FIRST 9/11 report. The28 pages were about issues that had not yet been fully investigated.
Those claiming no Saudi complicity say the unresolved issues were investigated LATER. Most were investigated by 2004 and discussed in the 9/11 Commission report. Some were investigated after 2004 by the FBI.
That's why Feinstein cautioned people to read ALL congressional and FBI reports. Much work was done after 2002.
Sending in ICE to take their guns has been the one thought that has occurred to me. The thought "great minds think alike" occurred to me ...... but I do not want to insult you.
Maybe if there was audio of Trumplethinskin talking slightingly about their gunz and how stupid they are to think he'd let them keep them... that might do it.
Well, there's already 8 cowbells, so one more won't hurt - get in there. And if you get tired of that, we've got 4 people playing the Vibra Slap, so you can cross over anytime you like. Musical skill is strictly prohibited...
the 28 pages were released 5 years after the 9/11 families were given Obama's word that he would declassify them. they were released with redactions--thus, not completely declassified. the point to remember is that the leads or "issues that needed further investigation" you mention above (and dismiss) were NOT ADEQUATELY INVESTIGATED by the FBI that was led by Mueller, at the time. yes, that's correct--the FBI, led by Mueller, COVERED UP the saudi information, leads, and 9/11 evidence that they should have investigated and used to indict the alleged saudi co-conspirators of the 9/11 attacks. notably, this all transpired during the bush administration. but the cover-up for the saudis and their role in 9/11 was not just Bush era. it preceded bush and started with Clinton, then moved to Bush, and ended at Obama. Obama was merely continuing that cover-up when his administration said that the 9/11 Commission exonerated the saudis. the 9/11 Commission DID NOT exonerate the saudis. Read the report and you will see that. Further, Obama continued his own cover-up (being the good soldier that he was) by further saying that the released 28 pages did not reveal any saudi complicity. this was a total lie. the entire 28 pages were specifically written about the Saudi role in the 9/11 attacks. no other country was mentioned as much as the saudis in the joint inquiry of congress' investigation into the 9/11 attacks--not even Afghanistan, and certainly not Iraq or Iran for that matter. this wonkette piece above has some information that is a bit off and perhaps misleading. the Otaiba emails, as I understand it, mostly detailed Congress' re-writing of JASTA--the justice against sponsors of terrorism act, not keeping the 28 pages off the GOP platform. JASTA was another incidence where Obama sided with the Saudis over American victims of terrorism, since Obama issued a veto against the 9/11 Families who had all of Congress supporting them and JASTA (legislation that gave them the right to hold the Saudis accountable in a court of law.) Thankfully, Obama's veto was soundly overridden by Congress. Incidentally, JASTA was the only veto override of his presidency. I will end by saying this: the Saudi cover-up is a non-partisan issue. the saudi cover-up spans decades and at least three administrations--two democrat and one republican. altho, the crime of 9/11 itself occurred during a republican administration, quite notably, when it comes to the Saudis, American must remember that presidents very often side with the saudis instead of their own citizens.
That could be true; but I think the Right is a lot flabbier than they used to be. Once we outlaw electric scooters half their troops will be side-lined. The militia nuts are good for shooting at civilians, but when faced with cops they tend to fold pretty quickly. I don't think our white nationalists even have the staying power of the IRA. Their whole thing is unearned privilege; they're not about to *work* for their rights.
As for on-going terrorist activity... we already have that. :(
latveriandiplomat more
We'll go with it...
Oh.....sayin' washboard to a hillbilly's like sayin' honey to a bee.
That works. I can’t play anything that requires me to blow in it. Except the flutophone. But who can tell if you’re a virtuoso on the those?
We got a Fronch Horn here that no one is using...
Dammit! I can play. What if I use an instrument I can’t play? Like Saxophone?
It's true the Wonkette article is a little off. For one thing, the 28 pages were redacted from the 2002 congressional report written by Graham & others. FDF has confused that report with the 2004 9/11 Commission report by Kean & Hamilton. That's what she linked to.
I also think you're right that the Otaibai emails are about JASTA, not the 28 pages. As you say, Obama agreed to release those pages long before the 2016 RNC platform was written. He may have taken his time (I thought it was one year, not five) but when Otaiba wrote those emails the release process was well underway--and it was not a controversial or partisan issue. Even the Saudis wanted those pages released.
About the pages: Look, the whole US government may be covering for the Saudis. I have no way to judge that. I only know what was said when the pages were released.
Kean & Hamilton said the 28 pages from the 2002 congressional report were based almost entirely on raw, unvetted material that came to the FBI. They said, "The leads developed in 2002 were checked out as thoroughly as possible (for their 2004 report)" and there was "no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded" al-Qaida. "This conclusion does not exclude the likelihood that charities with significant Saudi government sponsorship diverted funds to al-Qaida."
When the pages were released, Obama and all members of the House Intelligence Committee said the same thing: that there was no evidence the Saudis were complicit. I'll spare you their quotes, except one from Diane Feinstein. She urged people to read ALL 9/11 reports before drawing conclusions about the 28 pages. There are many. She feared the 28 pages would feed conspiracy theories, UNLESS one read the later materials that explain how the issues resolved.
AGAIN, she and Obama and Schiff may all be lying. God knows there are plenty of 9/11 conspiracy theories. I have no opinion because I don't have the bandwidth to delve into the details.
My point was for people reading the Wonkette article. If they think Manafort permanently blocked the release of the redacted pages (which is the impression I got from the article): it didn't happen. The pages were released in June 2016. Otaiba's emails were written after Obama's decision and the House Intelligence Committee's vote to release them.
If they think Manafort successfully pulled off a coverup of Saudi involvement in 9/11: that didn't happen either. If there's a coverup, Bush, Obama, Kean, Hamilton and congressmen on both sides of the aisle got it rolling long before Trump hired Manafort.
I glanced at the pages and saw minor redactions, stuff like addresses and phone numbers. Maybe there are more. I've done enough homework on this article. Not going to do more.
I do think FDF missed the real issue with the Otaibai/Barrack emails.
Oh wait, rereading your post. YES, the 28 pages are entirely about issues with the Saudis. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. The thing is the 2002 congressional report was the FIRST 9/11 report. The28 pages were about issues that had not yet been fully investigated.
Those claiming no Saudi complicity say the unresolved issues were investigated LATER. Most were investigated by 2004 and discussed in the 9/11 Commission report. Some were investigated after 2004 by the FBI.
That's why Feinstein cautioned people to read ALL congressional and FBI reports. Much work was done after 2002.
But yes, they could all be lying.
Lemme know what clubs they’re playing
So I can hang out somewhere else
Sending in ICE to take their guns has been the one thought that has occurred to me. The thought "great minds think alike" occurred to me ...... but I do not want to insult you.
Maybe if there was audio of Trumplethinskin talking slightingly about their gunz and how stupid they are to think he'd let them keep them... that might do it.
We also got tambourine, washboard and a recorder. Go hog wild...
I could switch to triangle, in a pinch.
Well, there's already 8 cowbells, so one more won't hurt - get in there. And if you get tired of that, we've got 4 people playing the Vibra Slap, so you can cross over anytime you like. Musical skill is strictly prohibited...
Can I play cowbell?
the 28 pages were released 5 years after the 9/11 families were given Obama's word that he would declassify them. they were released with redactions--thus, not completely declassified. the point to remember is that the leads or "issues that needed further investigation" you mention above (and dismiss) were NOT ADEQUATELY INVESTIGATED by the FBI that was led by Mueller, at the time. yes, that's correct--the FBI, led by Mueller, COVERED UP the saudi information, leads, and 9/11 evidence that they should have investigated and used to indict the alleged saudi co-conspirators of the 9/11 attacks. notably, this all transpired during the bush administration. but the cover-up for the saudis and their role in 9/11 was not just Bush era. it preceded bush and started with Clinton, then moved to Bush, and ended at Obama. Obama was merely continuing that cover-up when his administration said that the 9/11 Commission exonerated the saudis. the 9/11 Commission DID NOT exonerate the saudis. Read the report and you will see that. Further, Obama continued his own cover-up (being the good soldier that he was) by further saying that the released 28 pages did not reveal any saudi complicity. this was a total lie. the entire 28 pages were specifically written about the Saudi role in the 9/11 attacks. no other country was mentioned as much as the saudis in the joint inquiry of congress' investigation into the 9/11 attacks--not even Afghanistan, and certainly not Iraq or Iran for that matter. this wonkette piece above has some information that is a bit off and perhaps misleading. the Otaiba emails, as I understand it, mostly detailed Congress' re-writing of JASTA--the justice against sponsors of terrorism act, not keeping the 28 pages off the GOP platform. JASTA was another incidence where Obama sided with the Saudis over American victims of terrorism, since Obama issued a veto against the 9/11 Families who had all of Congress supporting them and JASTA (legislation that gave them the right to hold the Saudis accountable in a court of law.) Thankfully, Obama's veto was soundly overridden by Congress. Incidentally, JASTA was the only veto override of his presidency. I will end by saying this: the Saudi cover-up is a non-partisan issue. the saudi cover-up spans decades and at least three administrations--two democrat and one republican. altho, the crime of 9/11 itself occurred during a republican administration, quite notably, when it comes to the Saudis, American must remember that presidents very often side with the saudis instead of their own citizens.
That could be true; but I think the Right is a lot flabbier than they used to be. Once we outlaw electric scooters half their troops will be side-lined. The militia nuts are good for shooting at civilians, but when faced with cops they tend to fold pretty quickly. I don't think our white nationalists even have the staying power of the IRA. Their whole thing is unearned privilege; they're not about to *work* for their rights.
As for on-going terrorist activity... we already have that. :(