i finally got around to watching his monologue and maybe Robyn should've done the same before writing this article, because he says r-- not to 'punch down,' but from the perspective of people making fun of his niece who has down syndrome.
I keep having to point this out, and have since 2016...
LORNE MICHAELS IS NOT YOUR FRIEND!
Back when Trump was running for dictator the first time, Michaels had him on SNL. And Michaels ORDERED his cast, the crew, the writers, and everybody else in 8H to NOT MAKE FUN OF TRUMP.!
Why? Because he had been a longtime running buddy of Trump on the NYC rich assholes circuit. If you took the time (I'm NOT doing it), you could probably find Don & Lor in pics on Page Six, hanging out at whatever was the club du jour at any given time.
So WHY would anyone be surprised about this?
Having said this, I do not know Lor's politics, but I would say it is probably more on the site of the Borgs, and not humans.
*yes, this part is an intentional joke., but the info about Don & Lor is 100% TRUE.
I thought Shane Gillis was a country singer back in 2019. Now I'm gonna watch that monologue and see for myself. In Huckleberry Finn Mark Twain uses the n-word countless times, but not to punch down at those to whom it's applied. Language cuts many different ways. That's why it retains its explosive potential, for good or ill. Often both at once.
It feels strange to write about a thing without having consumed it. Shane's humor is rooted in love, empathy, compassion, and many of the same values that drive our politics from the left.
In his joke, he's talking about his niece (white with downs) and three nephews (black) who are all her siblings. If a random white kid called her retarded at school and then three black boys come out of nowhere and just start wailing on that cracker. That's a funny situation that plays off our own racist beliefs and discomforts, IMHO. We hold some belief that black boys are violent and we are offended that he's talking about black boys being violent, were her siblings white we wouldn't take the same offense. It's that subtle poking at the audience's racism while describing something positive that makes Shane's content so provoking, for me.
He uses the word retarded while also holding love in his heart for his uncle and niece who have down syndrome and the basketball team of down syndrome young men that he coaches at the Special Olympics. He talks about drug addicts and their hilarious peculiarities while holding love for his sister who is a heroin addict and his father who is an alcoholic.
He tells jokes that involve rape, and it's the rapist who is the butt of the joke. Like, the actual first joke in his Austin stand up special on youtube is a rape joke making fun of Congressmen from 1800 pushing for a lower age of consent. It, in my opinion, is very funny.
It saddens me this instinct to hear about source material and condemn it without making your own judgement.
Well said. I think the fear of losing social power is what drives a lot of problems in the world. Bullying, war, and hierarchy all result from a fear of uncontrolled social context.
This fear doesn't come out of nowhere, it is a sensible response to extreme social upheavals like losing your entire social structure and having to adapt to a new one.
For example, if your tribe dies from an earthquake, and you try to join another tribe, there you are, all alone, traumatised, and trying to adapt to a new situation in a social group where you have zero control. A large amount of fear is warranted there. And normally your fear would motivate you to hyperfocus on the new people and new ways of doing things, which can really speed up your acceptance in the new tribe.
But we don't live in tribes of dozens or hundreds of members, we live in a globally connected world with billions of people. Even just counting our direct social contacts we measure them in the thousands even without media and with media it measures in the hundreds of thousands. All this network lands directly on our little monkey brain that can barely process 150 relationships. OF COURSE that monkey brain is going to panic and react as if it is in a new tribe several times a day.
Do you know what happens if you leave a mammal in an extreme state of fear for a long time? They lash out. They force their surroundings to become predictable, to become safe (for them). This is a natural and predictable response. If you then also restrict their ability to violently control their environment, then they will either keel over dead or they will become an anxiously psychotic ball of neuroses.
So how about we start thinking and designing social contexts that have some stability, yeah?
There are jokes about death and war and sorrow. Tig Nataro became famous with a brilliant set about breast cancer. OF COURSE there are funny rape jokes. We have jokes because the world is full of horror. There’s funny ethnic jokes.
What’s Irish and stays out in the rain? Paddy O’Furniture.
So I don’t know any funny ethnic jokes…or funny rape jokes. But they exist, because they are necessary
I’m trying to work out how this guy even got the slot...
Maybe it’s a bit like a while after a breakup where you somehow start forgetting what a complete jerk your ex was and the place seems empty and so you call them up and one thing leads to another and it’s fun briefly and like an idiot you ask them back to your place and then they remind you of why you left them soon enough?
(... thinking if it’s that everyone still working on the show is now all yeah that was a mistake time to block his texts and change the damn locks again just in case he palmed a key or something while he was in here.)
Punching down is never funny. And not because "HEY NOW, THAT'S NOT FUNNY!!!
But because it's TECHNICALLY not funny. And that's why all the best comedians working today don't do it. They aren't worried about offending anyone, they are concerned about not getting laughs.
High end Stand-up comedians streamline their routines to a word. Nothing is wasted, nothing is extraneous, everything is meant to work for the greater good of a larger structure.
Punching down is easy, and easy jokes are simply not funny. In a very technical sense
i finally got around to watching his monologue and maybe Robyn should've done the same before writing this article, because he says r-- not to 'punch down,' but from the perspective of people making fun of his niece who has down syndrome.
"the rejection you were using them to ward off in the first place" ... ouchies!
I keep having to point this out, and have since 2016...
LORNE MICHAELS IS NOT YOUR FRIEND!
Back when Trump was running for dictator the first time, Michaels had him on SNL. And Michaels ORDERED his cast, the crew, the writers, and everybody else in 8H to NOT MAKE FUN OF TRUMP.!
Why? Because he had been a longtime running buddy of Trump on the NYC rich assholes circuit. If you took the time (I'm NOT doing it), you could probably find Don & Lor in pics on Page Six, hanging out at whatever was the club du jour at any given time.
So WHY would anyone be surprised about this?
Having said this, I do not know Lor's politics, but I would say it is probably more on the site of the Borgs, and not humans.
*yes, this part is an intentional joke., but the info about Don & Lor is 100% TRUE.
I thought Shane Gillis was a country singer back in 2019. Now I'm gonna watch that monologue and see for myself. In Huckleberry Finn Mark Twain uses the n-word countless times, but not to punch down at those to whom it's applied. Language cuts many different ways. That's why it retains its explosive potential, for good or ill. Often both at once.
It feels strange to write about a thing without having consumed it. Shane's humor is rooted in love, empathy, compassion, and many of the same values that drive our politics from the left.
In his joke, he's talking about his niece (white with downs) and three nephews (black) who are all her siblings. If a random white kid called her retarded at school and then three black boys come out of nowhere and just start wailing on that cracker. That's a funny situation that plays off our own racist beliefs and discomforts, IMHO. We hold some belief that black boys are violent and we are offended that he's talking about black boys being violent, were her siblings white we wouldn't take the same offense. It's that subtle poking at the audience's racism while describing something positive that makes Shane's content so provoking, for me.
He uses the word retarded while also holding love in his heart for his uncle and niece who have down syndrome and the basketball team of down syndrome young men that he coaches at the Special Olympics. He talks about drug addicts and their hilarious peculiarities while holding love for his sister who is a heroin addict and his father who is an alcoholic.
He tells jokes that involve rape, and it's the rapist who is the butt of the joke. Like, the actual first joke in his Austin stand up special on youtube is a rape joke making fun of Congressmen from 1800 pushing for a lower age of consent. It, in my opinion, is very funny.
It saddens me this instinct to hear about source material and condemn it without making your own judgement.
SNL jumped the goddamn shark at least thirty-five years ago.
WHY is it still pollluting the communal airspace?????
It was a particularly unfunny episode, to boot.
Why the hell did SNL hire him to host?
I mean. Shitcanned before ever appearing because asshole was probably your big clue there, Lorne.
Just sayin
I was not aware that 'gay' is a slur.
"the perceived loss of social power"
Well said. I think the fear of losing social power is what drives a lot of problems in the world. Bullying, war, and hierarchy all result from a fear of uncontrolled social context.
This fear doesn't come out of nowhere, it is a sensible response to extreme social upheavals like losing your entire social structure and having to adapt to a new one.
For example, if your tribe dies from an earthquake, and you try to join another tribe, there you are, all alone, traumatised, and trying to adapt to a new situation in a social group where you have zero control. A large amount of fear is warranted there. And normally your fear would motivate you to hyperfocus on the new people and new ways of doing things, which can really speed up your acceptance in the new tribe.
But we don't live in tribes of dozens or hundreds of members, we live in a globally connected world with billions of people. Even just counting our direct social contacts we measure them in the thousands even without media and with media it measures in the hundreds of thousands. All this network lands directly on our little monkey brain that can barely process 150 relationships. OF COURSE that monkey brain is going to panic and react as if it is in a new tribe several times a day.
Do you know what happens if you leave a mammal in an extreme state of fear for a long time? They lash out. They force their surroundings to become predictable, to become safe (for them). This is a natural and predictable response. If you then also restrict their ability to violently control their environment, then they will either keel over dead or they will become an anxiously psychotic ball of neuroses.
So how about we start thinking and designing social contexts that have some stability, yeah?
There are jokes about death and war and sorrow. Tig Nataro became famous with a brilliant set about breast cancer. OF COURSE there are funny rape jokes. We have jokes because the world is full of horror. There’s funny ethnic jokes.
What’s Irish and stays out in the rain? Paddy O’Furniture.
So I don’t know any funny ethnic jokes…or funny rape jokes. But they exist, because they are necessary
Ta, Robyn. All bullies are cowards.
I’m trying to work out how this guy even got the slot...
Maybe it’s a bit like a while after a breakup where you somehow start forgetting what a complete jerk your ex was and the place seems empty and so you call them up and one thing leads to another and it’s fun briefly and like an idiot you ask them back to your place and then they remind you of why you left them soon enough?
(... thinking if it’s that everyone still working on the show is now all yeah that was a mistake time to block his texts and change the damn locks again just in case he palmed a key or something while he was in here.)
I have no idea why they had this guy host the show. He's not funny, and every sketch he was VERY obviously reading the cue cards. It was cringey.
An excellent consideration of the tangles and entrapments our culture has put in the way of communication without cruelty. Thank you, Robyn!
Punching down is never funny. And not because "HEY NOW, THAT'S NOT FUNNY!!!
But because it's TECHNICALLY not funny. And that's why all the best comedians working today don't do it. They aren't worried about offending anyone, they are concerned about not getting laughs.
High end Stand-up comedians streamline their routines to a word. Nothing is wasted, nothing is extraneous, everything is meant to work for the greater good of a larger structure.
Punching down is easy, and easy jokes are simply not funny. In a very technical sense