I hate to say it, but you're completely right. FDR was our greatest democratic president, but there are some major asterisks on his record. More recently, I think the Clintons & Gore are garbage & I hated having to hold my nose and vote for them (because the alternatives were worse). Almost as much as I hated the people who supported them unconditionally. So where do we go for a decent party leader? No idea, but don't be a purity pony.
'We Don't Need Any More Icons' is exactly right, I think.
One of the women in the NYT story, Esmeralda Lopez, had at age 19 been pressured by Cesar Chavez for sex. She refused, and told her mother she was abruptly coming home from the speaking tour, explaining "Cesar Chavez is just a man."
Her mother, Cynthia Bell, a union leader, understood immediately – she had had a similar experience with Chavez when she herself was in her early 20s.
Ten months later Chavez had Esmeralda fired from her union job.
Today, Esmeralda Lopez says "It makes you rethink in history all those heroes. The movement — that’s the hero."
People are never ONE thing. They are a collection of parts, and getting everything of a superior quality is extremely rare. If the flaw is a vulgar sense of humor or no fashion sense, we can live with it. But often it's something more important.
What now of C Chavez St in SF and all the roads, airports, and Kennedy Centers being named for Dear Leader now that he's been called a piece of sh*t by one of his 3-time voters trying to fill her tank at the gas station? Maybe the GQP will start AI'ing stuff about MLK and get all those blvds renamed for their Prince of Peace.
I know Ms. Robyn is an atheist who, happily, was not infused with the burden of bible stories.
Unfortunately I was not so fortunate. The nuns often made us memorize that stuff and I did learn that a golden idol whose feet were made of clay was a bad way to save money.
Now I'll put on my beret, take a long drag on my Turkish cigarette and do my impersonation of Albert Camus who said:
"In this great temple deserted by the gods, all my idols have feet of clay."
I still, many decades later, haven't resumed buying grapes. I like grapes, too.
I'm saddened to learn that Chavez was like that. But I'd bet that this version of the NYT wouldn't have pursued this story if Chavez had been a rich Anglo-Saxon.
I've just sat here thinking about the battles women have fought for the vote, equal rights, abortion rights and more. Have any of our female leaders raped their male followers?
I don’t know about that, but a bunch of the early women in the women’s movement were incredibly racist and more threw non-whites under the bus to gain support from white men.
Every year Robyn has a page devoted to radical women activists. I seem to remember one black woman who was a contemporary of MLK Jr who made this same point of not needing to have to find a figurehead all the time. I can't remember her name.
A ex bf, and now good friend of mine David who grew up Catholic in (near) Worcester MA, when he was 14, was groomed and the repeated assaulted over a 2 year period. It was a devastating experience. Years later, when I knew him, he 'took his priest to court'. He was literally the first to do this. This was around the same time the Boston Globe started -surprisingly- reporting on all the men who followed and it resulted in the expulsion of Cardinal Bernard Law - which was almost unimaginable at the time.
Myself and his friends sort of went through all this with him because the court appearances were awful for him. After a few years we had heard many many storied in the Globe about similar stories from other men.
I remember one day at a party a friend of ours, a gay woman who followed all of this and lived near Boston made a comment that really stuck with me. "You know, I hear all these storieds, and dont' get me wrong, I really feel for these guys and know it was horrendous for them as children - but - you know - I don't know a single woman who has not been through the same or worse. It just nobody is really interested in their stories. Where are their headlines in the Boston Globe?"
So she said if I was interested I should ask every woman I knew to see if I could confirm what she said. She went first. She had - for naive little me - some unfuckingbelievable doozies of stores - from stawking, and beeing groped at her first job out of school (which she badly needed).
So I asked. Not too many - it's a weird thing to ask about. And sure enough - it checked out.
My sister was a research tech at a university, and because she was so detailed oriented and conscientious - she was the lab manager - keeping track of supplies and ordering things and other routine things. She was really good at it Im sure.
Her boss was - um - a little weird. She said that when she went for the interview the guy (same university) said - oh yes I know you - I recognize your feet.
OK. Anyway, the boss's wife use to cruise into the lab on the weekend to steal supplies like tp. My sister caught her doing it. This put her is a bad situation becuase it was HER responsibility to keep supplies up. So she had to talk to the boss about please tell your wife to stop pinching the supplies. So then the boss was mortified and apologized "Oh I'm so sorry she had put you through this. What do you want me to do to show how sorry I am? Shall I kiss your feet? Yes, that's it. I'll kiss your feet!"
"No that's ok, I don't think that will be necessary" "no it is - I'll get down on my knees and kiss your feet"
When the Church scandal first became national news, my daughters were still toddlers, and I wrongly assumed from the articles that the priests were targeting very young children of both sexes. So I wanted to avoid taking my kids anywhere near a Catholic church, imagining a priest coming up to them and offering them candy. I wouldn’t have known that most of the victims were older boys, since I knew nothing about how boys participate in Masses. (I had almost no religious upbringing and I didn’t even meet any Catholics until high school.)
Totally agree that it’s wrong to characterize the scandal as “boys have it bad too.” Its true meaning, as with Epstein, is how powerful people either abuse vulnerable ones or work to hide the abuse, and often both.
I hate to say it, but you're completely right. FDR was our greatest democratic president, but there are some major asterisks on his record. More recently, I think the Clintons & Gore are garbage & I hated having to hold my nose and vote for them (because the alternatives were worse). Almost as much as I hated the people who supported them unconditionally. So where do we go for a decent party leader? No idea, but don't be a purity pony.
This shit isn't easy.
Maybe we should only name streets after trees, numbers, and birds for a century or two.
In Jr. high school, we had to write an essay about our "hero".
I couldn't think of anyone.
So I wrote about Mark Spitz, as if he were my hero. I got an A. Jr. high was so stupid.
No more heroes!
'We Don't Need Any More Icons' is exactly right, I think.
One of the women in the NYT story, Esmeralda Lopez, had at age 19 been pressured by Cesar Chavez for sex. She refused, and told her mother she was abruptly coming home from the speaking tour, explaining "Cesar Chavez is just a man."
Her mother, Cynthia Bell, a union leader, understood immediately – she had had a similar experience with Chavez when she herself was in her early 20s.
Ten months later Chavez had Esmeralda fired from her union job.
Today, Esmeralda Lopez says "It makes you rethink in history all those heroes. The movement — that’s the hero."
People are NEVER saints. Most are sinners.
People are never ONE thing. They are a collection of parts, and getting everything of a superior quality is extremely rare. If the flaw is a vulgar sense of humor or no fashion sense, we can live with it. But often it's something more important.
What now of C Chavez St in SF and all the roads, airports, and Kennedy Centers being named for Dear Leader now that he's been called a piece of sh*t by one of his 3-time voters trying to fill her tank at the gas station? Maybe the GQP will start AI'ing stuff about MLK and get all those blvds renamed for their Prince of Peace.
Wait, Dolores Huerta had kids with him through rape? I am at a loss for words.
I know Ms. Robyn is an atheist who, happily, was not infused with the burden of bible stories.
Unfortunately I was not so fortunate. The nuns often made us memorize that stuff and I did learn that a golden idol whose feet were made of clay was a bad way to save money.
Now I'll put on my beret, take a long drag on my Turkish cigarette and do my impersonation of Albert Camus who said:
"In this great temple deserted by the gods, all my idols have feet of clay."
In zis Great Tempool desertey by the godes, all mon idols haf feet= uff clay WHOOSH
I still, many decades later, haven't resumed buying grapes. I like grapes, too.
I'm saddened to learn that Chavez was like that. But I'd bet that this version of the NYT wouldn't have pursued this story if Chavez had been a rich Anglo-Saxon.
Only if that rich Anglo-Saxon was dead for at least 125 years.
I've just sat here thinking about the battles women have fought for the vote, equal rights, abortion rights and more. Have any of our female leaders raped their male followers?
I don’t know about that, but a bunch of the early women in the women’s movement were incredibly racist and more threw non-whites under the bus to gain support from white men.
If memory serves, Helen Keller was something of a eugenicist. Which is just so fucking argh.
Every year Robyn has a page devoted to radical women activists. I seem to remember one black woman who was a contemporary of MLK Jr who made this same point of not needing to have to find a figurehead all the time. I can't remember her name.
Best not look too deeply into MLK's past.
Overheard on bsky:
On Chavez: Men should start out six feet under and work their way out.
There's gonna be a big movement to change Cesar Chavez street in S.F. isn't there?
Abusers use everything.
Not surprised.
He found a way to keep his victims quiet.
A ex bf, and now good friend of mine David who grew up Catholic in (near) Worcester MA, when he was 14, was groomed and the repeated assaulted over a 2 year period. It was a devastating experience. Years later, when I knew him, he 'took his priest to court'. He was literally the first to do this. This was around the same time the Boston Globe started -surprisingly- reporting on all the men who followed and it resulted in the expulsion of Cardinal Bernard Law - which was almost unimaginable at the time.
Myself and his friends sort of went through all this with him because the court appearances were awful for him. After a few years we had heard many many storied in the Globe about similar stories from other men.
I remember one day at a party a friend of ours, a gay woman who followed all of this and lived near Boston made a comment that really stuck with me. "You know, I hear all these storieds, and dont' get me wrong, I really feel for these guys and know it was horrendous for them as children - but - you know - I don't know a single woman who has not been through the same or worse. It just nobody is really interested in their stories. Where are their headlines in the Boston Globe?"
So she said if I was interested I should ask every woman I knew to see if I could confirm what she said. She went first. She had - for naive little me - some unfuckingbelievable doozies of stores - from stawking, and beeing groped at her first job out of school (which she badly needed).
So I asked. Not too many - it's a weird thing to ask about. And sure enough - it checked out.
My sister was a research tech at a university, and because she was so detailed oriented and conscientious - she was the lab manager - keeping track of supplies and ordering things and other routine things. She was really good at it Im sure.
Her boss was - um - a little weird. She said that when she went for the interview the guy (same university) said - oh yes I know you - I recognize your feet.
OK. Anyway, the boss's wife use to cruise into the lab on the weekend to steal supplies like tp. My sister caught her doing it. This put her is a bad situation becuase it was HER responsibility to keep supplies up. So she had to talk to the boss about please tell your wife to stop pinching the supplies. So then the boss was mortified and apologized "Oh I'm so sorry she had put you through this. What do you want me to do to show how sorry I am? Shall I kiss your feet? Yes, that's it. I'll kiss your feet!"
"No that's ok, I don't think that will be necessary" "no it is - I'll get down on my knees and kiss your feet"
When the Church scandal first became national news, my daughters were still toddlers, and I wrongly assumed from the articles that the priests were targeting very young children of both sexes. So I wanted to avoid taking my kids anywhere near a Catholic church, imagining a priest coming up to them and offering them candy. I wouldn’t have known that most of the victims were older boys, since I knew nothing about how boys participate in Masses. (I had almost no religious upbringing and I didn’t even meet any Catholics until high school.)
Totally agree that it’s wrong to characterize the scandal as “boys have it bad too.” Its true meaning, as with Epstein, is how powerful people either abuse vulnerable ones or work to hide the abuse, and often both.