Since there's been so little movement by Cuyahoga County in the shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice last fall -- the Sheriff's Office investigation was only delivered to prosecutors last week, more than six months after the child was shot to death by cops -- community leaders in Cleveland have a new plan that's so crazy, it just might work. They're preparing to
A regime change won't actually change the facts of the case. The reason why Zimmerman got off was quite simply there was enough evidence for probable cause, but not enough evidence for beyond a reasonable doubt. The judge decided there was probable cause then referred the case back to the prosecutor's office stating it may not meet the beyond reasonable doubt mark meaning the prosecution is still at the prosecutor's discretion. Given the evidence which is a poor video that you really can't make any determination of what actually happened attempting to prosecute the officers is just going to result in a not guilty verdict. Your problem is you are applying hindsight to facts not in evidence. Its a kid with a toy gun so obviously the cops are guilty. If only things were that simple.
There is a pretty big difference between open carrying and pointing what looks like a gun at people in a public place. The real question is how do you react if all you know is that someone is walking around a park full of kids pointing a gun at them? What do you do when you get to that location and you think that person is reaching for that gun? Do you wait or do you fire? All you have is seconds to react and with your life, your partners life and a park full of kids who depend on you making the right call. Pretty much everyone is making the case based not on what the officers knew at the time, but what they know to be true after the fact without even bothering to look at the other side. Officers have killed people reaching for a piece of paper, and been found justified, because they thought it was a gun. In this case the officers came on to the scene knowing there was a kid pointing a gun at kids in a park and making shooting gestures which you see in the video. If it had turned out to be a real gun this wouldn't have even hit the news cycle, but instead you have a 12 year old with a toy gun. This then immediately gets played as Racist Cop shoots innocent kid with a toy, because that sells. Oh the outrage
What justice?You have a black kid with an airsoft pistol wandering around a park pointing it at people get shot by cops. There is nothing resembling justice that will come of this. Lets say they try this case the evidence is flimsy at best and the judge explains that in his ruling. Any half way decent defense attorney is going to get the cops off, because all they have to do is play the 911 tapes, point out how it looks like a real gun and then ask the jury what would you do if you were in the cops shoes knowing what the cops knew at the time?The cops will walk, the community will riot and the whole cycle will begin again.There is no justice from this. Just a dead kid an angry mob and a whole lot of broken lives.
You don't even know what my world view is. I'm just stating the facts. It follows a predictable pattern. Police do something it gets caught on tape, people automatically blame the cops, Cops are cleared by department, people protest and complain, prosecutor takes an unwinnable dog of case to court, community riots because the case didn't go the way they wanted. Its a vicous cycle happens all the time. People like you need to understand why this happens so that your inaccurate assumptions which are tainted by facts that aren't in evidence or even exist don't lead to blaming the cops for Tamir Rice's death. Its a lot more complicated and the video doesn't prove anything.
And you would be the person blaming the cops if the kid had a real gun and killed a bunch of innocent kids, because they didn't shoot immediately. Its a no win situation either they kill him before he can get out a weapon or they don't kill him fast enough and get blamed when they failed to shoot first. Police aren't trained to talk people down they are trained to eliminate the situation reasonable judgement in this case based on the information they had was to shoot first and protect everyone else in the park. That is why its justifiable. What actually happened and what the officers believed to be happening are two entirely different things. The only thing that matters is the officers had a reasonable belief that the kid was a danger to everyone else and them. The sooner you understand that the better off you will be.
Maybe you can't really tell its over in 18 seconds. The kid was moving toward the vehicle the officers saw him reaching for his gun. The officers shot him. Thats pretty much what happened. Loehmann firing as he's getting out of the car is because he didn't want to get shot or for his partner to get shot or for some kids in the park to get shot. All that is required for it to be justified is for him to believe his life or his partner's life to be in danger. The danger not actually existing does not enter into the equation. Which is why there is a double standard. People are using hindsight to render judgement not understanding the Police Officers don't have the luxury of hindsight. Quite simply he couldn't risk not shooting. I still find it entertaining people delude themselves by saying no in that situation I wouldn't have fired. Go find a police station with simulator and try it out yourself and find out just how hard it is to make the call to shoot or not to shoot.
But he wasn't shooting anyone. It was a toy gun. Instead of asking him to drop it, the police rushed in and shot him. They had no reasonable belief that anyone was in danger. Obviously I am not the only one who sees it that way, since it is now being recommended that they face charges for their actions. We shall agree to disagree on this and let the court decide when they are charged with murder.
...geez Cleveland PD, does it really take 6 months to alter a drug test to show that Tamir Rice had marijuana in his system or find a school document saying he was suspended for fighting?
I would think that being black and trying to blend in with the Bundy crowd would also have been a mistake.
http://www.rawstory.com/201...
hooray!
Have you actually read the judge's decision?You probably won't like it very much.Since he essentially tossed the case...
There is still more there than "The judge will toss it." I am sorry if the continuing possibility of justice upsets you.
A regime change won't actually change the facts of the case. The reason why Zimmerman got off was quite simply there was enough evidence for probable cause, but not enough evidence for beyond a reasonable doubt. The judge decided there was probable cause then referred the case back to the prosecutor's office stating it may not meet the beyond reasonable doubt mark meaning the prosecution is still at the prosecutor's discretion. Given the evidence which is a poor video that you really can't make any determination of what actually happened attempting to prosecute the officers is just going to result in a not guilty verdict. Your problem is you are applying hindsight to facts not in evidence. Its a kid with a toy gun so obviously the cops are guilty. If only things were that simple.
There is a pretty big difference between open carrying and pointing what looks like a gun at people in a public place. The real question is how do you react if all you know is that someone is walking around a park full of kids pointing a gun at them? What do you do when you get to that location and you think that person is reaching for that gun? Do you wait or do you fire? All you have is seconds to react and with your life, your partners life and a park full of kids who depend on you making the right call. Pretty much everyone is making the case based not on what the officers knew at the time, but what they know to be true after the fact without even bothering to look at the other side. Officers have killed people reaching for a piece of paper, and been found justified, because they thought it was a gun. In this case the officers came on to the scene knowing there was a kid pointing a gun at kids in a park and making shooting gestures which you see in the video. If it had turned out to be a real gun this wouldn't have even hit the news cycle, but instead you have a 12 year old with a toy gun. This then immediately gets played as Racist Cop shoots innocent kid with a toy, because that sells. Oh the outrage
What justice?You have a black kid with an airsoft pistol wandering around a park pointing it at people get shot by cops. There is nothing resembling justice that will come of this. Lets say they try this case the evidence is flimsy at best and the judge explains that in his ruling. Any half way decent defense attorney is going to get the cops off, because all they have to do is play the 911 tapes, point out how it looks like a real gun and then ask the jury what would you do if you were in the cops shoes knowing what the cops knew at the time?The cops will walk, the community will riot and the whole cycle will begin again.There is no justice from this. Just a dead kid an angry mob and a whole lot of broken lives.
I am quite pleased to not share your worldview in any conceivable manner. So I guess we are done now.
You don't even know what my world view is. I'm just stating the facts. It follows a predictable pattern. Police do something it gets caught on tape, people automatically blame the cops, Cops are cleared by department, people protest and complain, prosecutor takes an unwinnable dog of case to court, community riots because the case didn't go the way they wanted. Its a vicous cycle happens all the time. People like you need to understand why this happens so that your inaccurate assumptions which are tainted by facts that aren't in evidence or even exist don't lead to blaming the cops for Tamir Rice's death. Its a lot more complicated and the video doesn't prove anything.
And you would be the person blaming the cops if the kid had a real gun and killed a bunch of innocent kids, because they didn't shoot immediately. Its a no win situation either they kill him before he can get out a weapon or they don't kill him fast enough and get blamed when they failed to shoot first. Police aren't trained to talk people down they are trained to eliminate the situation reasonable judgement in this case based on the information they had was to shoot first and protect everyone else in the park. That is why its justifiable. What actually happened and what the officers believed to be happening are two entirely different things. The only thing that matters is the officers had a reasonable belief that the kid was a danger to everyone else and them. The sooner you understand that the better off you will be.
Maybe you can't really tell its over in 18 seconds. The kid was moving toward the vehicle the officers saw him reaching for his gun. The officers shot him. Thats pretty much what happened. Loehmann firing as he's getting out of the car is because he didn't want to get shot or for his partner to get shot or for some kids in the park to get shot. All that is required for it to be justified is for him to believe his life or his partner's life to be in danger. The danger not actually existing does not enter into the equation. Which is why there is a double standard. People are using hindsight to render judgement not understanding the Police Officers don't have the luxury of hindsight. Quite simply he couldn't risk not shooting. I still find it entertaining people delude themselves by saying no in that situation I wouldn't have fired. Go find a police station with simulator and try it out yourself and find out just how hard it is to make the call to shoot or not to shoot.
But he wasn't shooting anyone. It was a toy gun. Instead of asking him to drop it, the police rushed in and shot him. They had no reasonable belief that anyone was in danger. Obviously I am not the only one who sees it that way, since it is now being recommended that they face charges for their actions. We shall agree to disagree on this and let the court decide when they are charged with murder.
please re-read my previous reply. rinse and repeat.
...geez Cleveland PD, does it really take 6 months to alter a drug test to show that Tamir Rice had marijuana in his system or find a school document saying he was suspended for fighting?
They're still waiting for the video to surface of him shoplifting Skittles and iced tea.