"The Left again speaks of actual votes, but what of the attempts? We have no idea of the attempts. We have no idea what votes may actually have been unlawfully cast."


This is the most beautifully stated encapsulation of the rabid right-wing id. Stephen Colbert couldn't have done it any better.

Quick! I think I saw a roach! We must burn the house down to kill it, obviously! Absolutely, yes! Also, we need to stand up against all the things that haven't happened, but someday may! Just like all those communists we caught running around in the State Dept, and Hollywood, and the army! Yes, we must curtail all our freedoms in the name of freedom! Burn the Bill of Rights because our rights are under attack...possibly. I mean, you never know. Someday probably. Could be muslims...or commies. Or the geys!!!!! Or black people walking around in neighborhoods. And this is why we need voter ID.

Point is, you never know about the REAL motives behind a bag of skittles, amirite?

You need a tv show, man. I'd watch!

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I didn't. Did you read a different edit of the article? Sorta like an old US v UK Rock LP? Different tracks included?

Again, burning the house down to kill a couple roaches is not sane policy.

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Please tell me what freedom is curtailed by requiring ID. None whatsoever. If you want to bring up the extremely old, take them to the courthouse and help them get ID. Vanishingly few people have no government issued ID.If you see one cockroach, there are ALWAYS others unseen. So, you spray. Your analogy actually works in my favor. As for skittles, you are wrong. They have no motives, being inanimate objects.Semper fi

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I posted several links. At least one is a guilty plea. Another saw guilty verdicts.Semper fi

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Access to the franchise is made much more difficult with an ID requirement. The bar is set higher than it needs to be. And that's by design. Your arguments are the ones that were made by the old racists in Alabama and Mississippi, etc who had put, among other obstacles to the vote, literacy tests in place. Their argument was, the tests are rudimentary and access to education is everywhere, so it's the fault of the individual if they can't read.

Fine. It's more complicated than that, but fine. It's still beside the point. The tests had one purpose: make it harder for minorities to vote, to be represented. That is the point of ID laws all over the country and everyone knows it. The only reason the law was shot down in PA is that a top republican operative was caught on tape admitting it was to keep minorities - who tend to vote democrat - away from the polls.

There is no other reason for it, John.

But you won't care, and I kind of envy you for it. You see the world in very clear terms: Black and white, don't you? It's all so...certain. It's all so inevitable. There is a right way (to which you regularly - and very coincidentally - subscribe) and a wrong way (with which you regularly - and very coincidentally - disagree). It's authoritarian. It's an extremely conservative POV. But ok.

I AM a liberal, John. I see more complexity in the human condition; more shades of grey. More room for varying points-of-veiw. It is a tiring position to maintain, and there is very little certainty in it.

But "Liberal," "Progressive." These are labels you like to mock. Again, fine. But it's the people to whom those labels apply who did most of the good in this country. They moved us forward. One man, one vote. Emancipation. Universal Sufferage. Universal education. Child-labor laws. Workers' rights. Food safety. Water safety. They said old people didn't have to die in the streets or be undo burdens on others. They passed civil rights legislation. Now health care, and soon, expansion of guaranteed education into jr college.

Most of the music this country made, which has spread across the world - jazz, blues, rock, rap - was mostly made by liberal-minded people. Same for the rest of pop culture. Movies are our top export these days. Most of the tech you rely on every day, as well, many of the other scientific and medical advances you benefit from (and the federal funding for them) are made possible mostly by people who identify as liberal or progressive.

You may have put on a uniform and did your part to protect this country for a few years, but what you were busy protecting was created by a progressive spirit...all the way back to the ideas of the Founders, the memory of whom many people seems so content to want to corrupt and bludgeon us with.

So, in conclusion, you're fucking welcome.

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How many states have an ID requirement, do you know? Name a person that hasn't been able to obtain an ID. Your arguments are purely racist, arguing that minorities are neither smart enough, or capable enough, to obtain a birth certificate. This isn't the 20's, when people had no transportation, and not a lot of education. It is you seeing black and white, not I. You see that minorities are incapable of taking care of themselves, so you maintain your plantation-master mentality over them. I see that minorities are more than sufficiently capable, but must be cut loose from the plantation in order to realize it.Your version of Liberal, pure racism, has zero to do with classic Liberalism, which believed in the ability of the individual to elevate him/herself above hardship. Your version is statism, which requires that the "little people" be protected from themselves, for the good of the state!Semper fi

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" Name a person that hasn't been able to obtain an ID. "

HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Ummm....101 year old Mary Lou Miller? Perhaps? The reason we are all here in this endless comments thread? Remember?

Seriously, John. A TV show!

As for the rest, you make my case better than I ever could. I never mentioned plantations or minorities not being able to take care of themselves. I said white, old, asshats, like you, have been busy stacking the deck against non-white, non-old asshat people since the beginning of time and maybe you should think about stopping that any time now please.

But, guy, can I just say, you are a treat. Really and truly, thank you.

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101 year old Mary Lou Miller has had 20 years to get an ID! Or more. As was pointed out in this thread, she didn't try to get hold of the PA offices in her county of birth. Nor, apparently, did she try to get any family members to help, as allowed by PA law. So no, she hasn't NOT been able to obtain ID.Semper fi

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Thought you weren't blaming her? No language of blame anywhere. Your words. Remember? You sounded so superior.

Now I'm just wasting my time. I smoked you out enough. It was fun. And a bit sad. Goodbye, friend. Maybe we'll meet again. But will I recognize you without the white hood? Who knows?

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Obviously, you and I have a different definition of "blame". If she misses a doctor's appointment she is to blame. If she neglects to turn off her stove and burns the house down, she is to blame. If she needs an ID, as do all Americans, and neglects to obtain it, that is her fault as well. Neither you, nor I, are responsible for her.And yes, I put no blame on her in previous comments. I do now!Semper fi

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"He gets no say..."

"...it really DOES make me more "American" than everyone else."

You've completely missed the point to being an american, John.

You're really a horrible, horrible little man, aren't you?

Semper fi that.

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I registered voters here....now I'm going to throw something against the wall

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You never really "visited" all those places, did you? I mean, maybe from within the confines of your military service, but that doesn't lend itself to going out amongst the people. Just the opposite, really. It's exclusionary. It doesn't expand your POV.

And again, what illegal ballots? Empirical evidence, please. I suppose it's that really crafty, invisible, super-villan level fraud; the kind 'they' use to cheat the welfare system, and get all those filet mignon-buying food stamps, but remains imperceptible to every attempt to uncover or quantify.

Or is it just like climate change? Where all those grifting scientists are grifting the heck out of all that grift, but no one has ever uncovered any evidence of it anywhere, but Real Americans like you, John, know in their hearts is happening because it's so obvious. It must be that kind of fraud!

And yes, you are scared.

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You were in the Marines? You should have mentioned that.

(/end sarcasm)

Your attitude, while common, is disgraceful - no member of my military family would share it.

As your former employer - because as a member of the armed forces, you work for the American people - I'll tell you that no, your service does NOT make you more American than the rest of us...and if you think it does, you know not one fucking thing about being American.


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No, I didn't work for the "American people". I served the Constitution, to which my oath was directed. You were not my employer, and had no say.Semper fi

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What illegal ballots? The ones reported by the media, those illegal ballots. You make a big deal about how every Americans vote must be counted, but don't care when an Americans vote is defrauded. How does that work for you?And yes, when I have served overseas, I have been "among" the people of those countries. Did you think we live in sequestered communities? If so, you know nothing about military service!Semper fi

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