"There is a difference between insulting people and reacting to an insult. We do the latter, they do the former, so it is not our rhetoric that is the problem."
That is an absolutely perfect, spot-on, pithy, succinct distillation of one of the key differences between Right and Left. Thank you! It makes a crystal clear, irrefutable explanation to people who can't grasp the obvious on their own, and an incisive, razor sharp way to cut through BothSidesism bullshit.
People on the right have been calling for a civil war for at least 30 years, though they're saying it a lot more now that they've stopped pretending to not be extreme, conspiracy crazed, white supremacist, Christo-fascist bigots.
The middle school bullies I remember weren't popular. In fact, they were way beyond "bully" and went for full blown thugs who beat the hell out of guys like me with the full knowledge of the staff and faculty. They believed fighting made you stronger for the rigors of life, and that "boys will be boys." Guys like trump weren't the kind of kids I knew. They were too cowardly to fight, but they sure idolized the "tough guys."
I should take some comfort that every one of the thugs I knew ended up doing badly. A lot smoked ore drank themselves to death. Quite a few were huge trumpers to the day they died. The rest are nobodies in bad health.
I should feel better about that, the stupid fucks. But I don't.
I fought back. Sure I got my ass kicked from time to time, but I hit them enough times in vulnerable places for them to remember that despite being the little Asian twerp I knew how to really hurt them. But no one should take that shit.
I didn't "take that shit." I was attacked by guys much bigger than me and I was scared. Sometimes it was five of them. With respect, you're not suggesting it was my fault for "just taking it," are you?
Nope no judgements as I don't know what you had to deal with. Everyone has a different situation. 5 on 1 fight is impossible even if you are Bruce Lee. I was lucky I only had at most 2. As long as you managed to keep your sanity and self esteem intact that's about the best one can do.
What on earth was Charlie Kirk thinking ? Did he honestly have no idea that his words are/were loathsome to some 50 percent of Americans? It makes me think of Martin Luther King Jr. Was he just as delusional as Charlie Kirk? Is MLK the DEM version of Charlie Kirk? MLK must have been aware that what he was saying was highly provocative to racists? I think he must have had a good idea that his words could put his life in danger. He grew up in an environment of toxic racism that involved lynchings for saying less. So what about Kirk, do we have any info on his awareness? Did he ever have a risk assessment carried out for any of his engagements? Like MLK, how could Kirk have not been aware he was raising the hackles of an armed citizenry? Were they both equally delusional, or were they both martyrs for their cause?
A: MLK famously knew what he was saying was offensive to racists. He knew he would someday be killled. He told people that.
B: Charlie Kirk is nothing like MLK. And also, we do not know it was his rhetoric (and actual physical acts of like getting people fired and jailed) that killed him. He is not a martyr. He is an expendabe.
If Charlie Kirk was aware that there was a very good chance he would someday be shot & killed, I’m sorry, but as much as I hate to admit it, he qualifies for martyrdom by definition.
This is why I keep coming back to you, this is why I keep donating (my measly) money. Because you say what I am thinking, but you do it so well. I pride myself on my ability with words, I made words my career. You... I just want you to know that I appreciate the clarity and focus you bring to my understanding of why we are the way we are now. It doesn't make it easier, but I'm glad to know that I'm not alone.
Ta, Robyn. Were it not for Wonkette, I doubt I'd know of Charlie Church's existence, and would have been confused about whose death was caused by one of yesterday's shootings. Just deserts. (Yes, I know, deserves got nothing to do with it; I've seen Unforgiven.)
Just a thought - IF Jewish people are overrepresented in any field - since Hollywood was mentioned, let's look at it - if (and it's a big if) they are overrepresented there, it's not because they are Jewish. It's because they are people who have talent and passion for communicating through the dramatic arts.
I also don't understand the contempt for "nepo babies." Throughout most of human history, it was just taken for granted that children would take up the profession(s) of their parent(s). Those who failed to do so were thought disrespectful. The number of composers, for instance, in the 18th century alone who were supposed to be lawyers and who basically had to run away from law school is larger than you would think.
If you go back to the feudal period, there was actually a pprescribed professin for each son depending on birth order, up to IIRC 5 sons. Of course the first son inherited the title. I don't remember all the possibilities, but two were the military and the church. (It would make sense for the second to go into the military, since if the first died without issue, the second would not be in holy orders and would be able to step into the title. So the church probably came fourth or even fifth. Which may help explain why so many Christian clergy of the feudal period were so un-Christian. Today the reasons for that are different.)
Very good piece. I think the reactionary end goal is a world where they are utterly exempt from fruitful but uncomfortable self-examination. An unbearable narcissistic wound. Thanks for your essay.
Other guy: Liberals are the real brown shirts. Agree with their ideology cause that's the only one that matters.
Me: "Sure, OUR guys are sending the military to occupy American cities. But liberals want you to... AGREE WITH THEM!!"
`
He wasn't being sarcastic, or indulging in hyperbole, or anything like that. He was deadass serious. They think any disagreement with them is equivalent to oppression.
When I was in grade school a bully picked on my kid brothers. Despite him being much bigger than me, my memory of that day stops right after scream and leap. My brothers say I won, though, so I see no reason to change my tactics.
"If you could say horrible things to people and have them still be desperate to be your friend, you’d know you had a certain amount of social power.
Things aren’t really like that anymore — in adult life"
Actually and unfortunately, Ms Pennacchia, in adult life things have returned to this sorry state. A prime example is the Fulvous Fuckwad hisself. He's made horrific comments about Pres Zelenskyy and while Zelenskyy hasn't actually been friendly he's at least talking friendly (probably due to the extortionist tactics of the Halloween Orange Hemorrhoid; if Ukraine wants more weapons to defend themselves then they need to be willing to kiss ass). How many nations has the Corrupt Coral Coward insulted on a regular basis that ***still*** want to deal with him? How many countries has he condemned for their state religion, almost always Muslim countries (while he tries to force-feed us his supporters Pseudochristianity), and yet they remain in line seeking his favors? He regularly insults and threatens those within his own tribe and yet they continue to do as he demands. The Corrupt Coral Coward has built his life around the words of Caligula: “Oderint dum metuant."
("Let them hate me, as long as they fear me.”)
-----
“Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them. The philosophical foundation of anti-whiteness has been largely financed by Jewish donors in the country.”
Kirk has pushed one of the most disgusting tropes about the Jews: if you are a Jew then you aren't White. This has been applied to numerous others immigrating to the US, ie the Irish and Italians weren't considered as Caucasians, but only with Jewish people has this bovine scat been never-ending.
-----
"what they really meant was “I can’t use a racial slur or accuse Jewish people of controlling the world or say women ought to stay home and have babies or that trans people are mentally ill mass shooters without someone thinking I’m a horrible person because of it.”"
Yeah, but you don't expect the Fulvous Fuckwad's version of the Praetorian Guard, do you?
Although, on second thought, if the Halloween Orange Hemorrhoid doesn't begin to self-regulate (never gonna happen) these fine folk might invoke the 22A, Section 4 in order to retain any power.
I heard that AOC cancelled an event in Raleigh NC on Sunday. Supposedly in respect for Kirk, but also for security precautions. I think it was mainly security. My fear is that right wingers will use this as a field day to attack Democratic politicians. Verbally through threats and physically with guns.
Desperate validation junkies who hate the smartypantses and talented kids who outshone them in school and afterward.
GOP delivers the dime bags.
"There is a difference between insulting people and reacting to an insult. We do the latter, they do the former, so it is not our rhetoric that is the problem."
That is an absolutely perfect, spot-on, pithy, succinct distillation of one of the key differences between Right and Left. Thank you! It makes a crystal clear, irrefutable explanation to people who can't grasp the obvious on their own, and an incisive, razor sharp way to cut through BothSidesism bullshit.
People on the right have been calling for a civil war for at least 30 years, though they're saying it a lot more now that they've stopped pretending to not be extreme, conspiracy crazed, white supremacist, Christo-fascist bigots.
The middle school bullies I remember weren't popular. In fact, they were way beyond "bully" and went for full blown thugs who beat the hell out of guys like me with the full knowledge of the staff and faculty. They believed fighting made you stronger for the rigors of life, and that "boys will be boys." Guys like trump weren't the kind of kids I knew. They were too cowardly to fight, but they sure idolized the "tough guys."
I should take some comfort that every one of the thugs I knew ended up doing badly. A lot smoked ore drank themselves to death. Quite a few were huge trumpers to the day they died. The rest are nobodies in bad health.
I should feel better about that, the stupid fucks. But I don't.
I fought back. Sure I got my ass kicked from time to time, but I hit them enough times in vulnerable places for them to remember that despite being the little Asian twerp I knew how to really hurt them. But no one should take that shit.
I didn't "take that shit." I was attacked by guys much bigger than me and I was scared. Sometimes it was five of them. With respect, you're not suggesting it was my fault for "just taking it," are you?
Nope no judgements as I don't know what you had to deal with. Everyone has a different situation. 5 on 1 fight is impossible even if you are Bruce Lee. I was lucky I only had at most 2. As long as you managed to keep your sanity and self esteem intact that's about the best one can do.
they took a beating. Let's leave it at that. You think you're all grown up now and it was 50 years ago. But you still remember.
The worst odds for me came later at work. Got fired once because of that.
What on earth was Charlie Kirk thinking ? Did he honestly have no idea that his words are/were loathsome to some 50 percent of Americans? It makes me think of Martin Luther King Jr. Was he just as delusional as Charlie Kirk? Is MLK the DEM version of Charlie Kirk? MLK must have been aware that what he was saying was highly provocative to racists? I think he must have had a good idea that his words could put his life in danger. He grew up in an environment of toxic racism that involved lynchings for saying less. So what about Kirk, do we have any info on his awareness? Did he ever have a risk assessment carried out for any of his engagements? Like MLK, how could Kirk have not been aware he was raising the hackles of an armed citizenry? Were they both equally delusional, or were they both martyrs for their cause?
A: MLK famously knew what he was saying was offensive to racists. He knew he would someday be killled. He told people that.
B: Charlie Kirk is nothing like MLK. And also, we do not know it was his rhetoric (and actual physical acts of like getting people fired and jailed) that killed him. He is not a martyr. He is an expendabe.
If Charlie Kirk was aware that there was a very good chance he would someday be shot & killed, I’m sorry, but as much as I hate to admit it, he qualifies for martyrdom by definition.
I've known a lot of guys like him. He ignored it, covered it over with bro bullshit, and simply didn't care.
“now is not the time to retreat, it’s the time to fight back.“ No doubt a sternly worded letter is in the offing.
This is why I keep coming back to you, this is why I keep donating (my measly) money. Because you say what I am thinking, but you do it so well. I pride myself on my ability with words, I made words my career. You... I just want you to know that I appreciate the clarity and focus you bring to my understanding of why we are the way we are now. It doesn't make it easier, but I'm glad to know that I'm not alone.
And thank you for NOT using AI.
Well said.
Ta, Robyn. Were it not for Wonkette, I doubt I'd know of Charlie Church's existence, and would have been confused about whose death was caused by one of yesterday's shootings. Just deserts. (Yes, I know, deserves got nothing to do with it; I've seen Unforgiven.)
"Any sumbitch takes a shot at me, and not only am I gonna kill him, but his wife too. And all his friends. And burn his damn house down."
- Will Munney, UNFORGIVEN
Just a thought - IF Jewish people are overrepresented in any field - since Hollywood was mentioned, let's look at it - if (and it's a big if) they are overrepresented there, it's not because they are Jewish. It's because they are people who have talent and passion for communicating through the dramatic arts.
I also don't understand the contempt for "nepo babies." Throughout most of human history, it was just taken for granted that children would take up the profession(s) of their parent(s). Those who failed to do so were thought disrespectful. The number of composers, for instance, in the 18th century alone who were supposed to be lawyers and who basically had to run away from law school is larger than you would think.
Only trades and working class people were expected to follow in their father's footsteps, really. Rich kids always got to decide.
If you go back to the feudal period, there was actually a pprescribed professin for each son depending on birth order, up to IIRC 5 sons. Of course the first son inherited the title. I don't remember all the possibilities, but two were the military and the church. (It would make sense for the second to go into the military, since if the first died without issue, the second would not be in holy orders and would be able to step into the title. So the church probably came fourth or even fifth. Which may help explain why so many Christian clergy of the feudal period were so un-Christian. Today the reasons for that are different.)
Very good piece. I think the reactionary end goal is a world where they are utterly exempt from fruitful but uncomfortable self-examination. An unbearable narcissistic wound. Thanks for your essay.
This was from three days ago:
`
Other guy: Liberals are the real brown shirts. Agree with their ideology cause that's the only one that matters.
Me: "Sure, OUR guys are sending the military to occupy American cities. But liberals want you to... AGREE WITH THEM!!"
`
He wasn't being sarcastic, or indulging in hyperbole, or anything like that. He was deadass serious. They think any disagreement with them is equivalent to oppression.
"Not only is the cruelty the point, the tolerance of cruelty is the end goal." You may be onto something there.
Common Clay of the New West!
"You know...morons."
The Alt-West
When I was in grade school a bully picked on my kid brothers. Despite him being much bigger than me, my memory of that day stops right after scream and leap. My brothers say I won, though, so I see no reason to change my tactics.
This is why I am glad Charlie Kirk died violently. Bullies tend to turn cowardly when they get the idea that they might suffer consequences.
"If you could say horrible things to people and have them still be desperate to be your friend, you’d know you had a certain amount of social power.
Things aren’t really like that anymore — in adult life"
Actually and unfortunately, Ms Pennacchia, in adult life things have returned to this sorry state. A prime example is the Fulvous Fuckwad hisself. He's made horrific comments about Pres Zelenskyy and while Zelenskyy hasn't actually been friendly he's at least talking friendly (probably due to the extortionist tactics of the Halloween Orange Hemorrhoid; if Ukraine wants more weapons to defend themselves then they need to be willing to kiss ass). How many nations has the Corrupt Coral Coward insulted on a regular basis that ***still*** want to deal with him? How many countries has he condemned for their state religion, almost always Muslim countries (while he tries to force-feed us his supporters Pseudochristianity), and yet they remain in line seeking his favors? He regularly insults and threatens those within his own tribe and yet they continue to do as he demands. The Corrupt Coral Coward has built his life around the words of Caligula: “Oderint dum metuant."
("Let them hate me, as long as they fear me.”)
-----
“Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them. The philosophical foundation of anti-whiteness has been largely financed by Jewish donors in the country.”
Kirk has pushed one of the most disgusting tropes about the Jews: if you are a Jew then you aren't White. This has been applied to numerous others immigrating to the US, ie the Irish and Italians weren't considered as Caucasians, but only with Jewish people has this bovine scat been never-ending.
-----
"what they really meant was “I can’t use a racial slur or accuse Jewish people of controlling the world or say women ought to stay home and have babies or that trans people are mentally ill mass shooters without someone thinking I’m a horrible person because of it.”"
Hey, if the ugly, dog-shit covered shoe fits....
fnord
"The Corrupt Coral Coward has built his life around the words of Caligula" who, if I recall, did not end his life old in bed.
Yeah, but you don't expect the Fulvous Fuckwad's version of the Praetorian Guard, do you?
Although, on second thought, if the Halloween Orange Hemorrhoid doesn't begin to self-regulate (never gonna happen) these fine folk might invoke the 22A, Section 4 in order to retain any power.
fnord
I heard that AOC cancelled an event in Raleigh NC on Sunday. Supposedly in respect for Kirk, but also for security precautions. I think it was mainly security. My fear is that right wingers will use this as a field day to attack Democratic politicians. Verbally through threats and physically with guns.
They already killed one and injured another this year alone.