I disagree because in a world where the police are well trained in effective but non-abusive tactics, that is also a world where they enjoy greater goodwill and cooperation in the communities they serve which is safer for both the citizens and the police serving them. When every encounter becomes one where the citizen has to be in dire fear, and the cop is in turn in fear, it's not better for anyone.
I’ll say it for you Senator Booker, since you are too polite: Tim Scott is a RWNJ mouth-breathing POS who gleefully threw you under the bus. He is not your friend. #MorningJoe
In a world where the police unions want carte blanche to harass, humiliate, brutalize, rob, rape and murder citizens with impunity and legal immunity, aka the world we live in, cop-friendly police reform is an oxymoron.
That's the central problem. I guess the theory is "fewer interactions with the police means fewer opportunities for the police to abuse you" but it still leaves a more poorly funded and abusive police force (look for examples in GOP-heavy areas, like Mississippi--not exactly examples of enlightened policing). And if the answer to a crime victim is "well, the police would have just abused you so good luck walking out your front stoop"--well, good luck selling that to anyone. That's not to say genuine police reform is easy--it's not, even if we had a massive majority in favor of it--but it's the only way this ever gets fixed.
The training I meant was in de-escalation tactics, safe stops, etc. That alone won't do it--any reforms need teeth, with police facing a realistic punishment for violating these rules--but I don't see any way to fix the police without it.
That's how the opposition frames it--you either support law and order and police lives, or you're on the side of chaos. I reject that, as effective, lawful and accountable policing is better for the cops as well as the citizens. Unions don't always act in their members' own best long term interest.
Cops are predominately authoritarian-minded -- notice their disproportionate presence among the MAGA mob and their refusal to get vaccinated, despite the impact on public health.
You would need to dismantle the entire system and start over. But as there aren’t that many job opportunities for proto-fascists outside of law enforcement and politics, they will fight any meaningful reform tooth and nail.
The really annoying thing is that once we get honest about dealing with crime, then that gives us a chance to talk about gun violence. We need to tie the issues together.
I think the heaviest lift for police reform--and why I'm pessimistic about it--is that no matter what new tactics you introduce or accountability measures you put in place, the biggest problem is ingrained attitudes on the part of the cops, the government actors that work with the cops, and the citizens themselves. Cops circle the wagons when one of their own is accused (with unions backing them up), prosecutors, mayors, etc. don't want to look like they're anti-law enforcement, and citizens (especially serving on juries) don't like to second guess them. So even with review boards, even with IA departments, even with media attention on this, you still get WAY too much leeway given to cops who step over the line and this pervasive sense of "what do you know if you're not out there in the blue". Reform is necessary but it's a tough current to swim against to impose accountability.
Well thanks Cory but it is time to call your "old friend" out. He doesn't give a shit about you. More importantly he doesn't give a shit about Black people beaten by police. This might cause me concern for his mental health but FUCK HIM.
Making it easier to fire abusive cops would be a good start. If it means firing every one of them that doesn't get that they can't just beat up on suspects, so be it.
*While not abusing the citizens* being the critical part.
If, however, the main actual practice of the cops in your neighborhood is to abuse the citizens, I'd sure as hell want 'em "defunded."
I disagree because in a world where the police are well trained in effective but non-abusive tactics, that is also a world where they enjoy greater goodwill and cooperation in the communities they serve which is safer for both the citizens and the police serving them. When every encounter becomes one where the citizen has to be in dire fear, and the cop is in turn in fear, it's not better for anyone.
And yet if anyone questions their tactics, they write us off as "scared white people" who are just not enlightened enough.
I’ll say it for you Senator Booker, since you are too polite: Tim Scott is a RWNJ mouth-breathing POS who gleefully threw you under the bus. He is not your friend. #MorningJoe
— Aunt PithyPat (@YourVeganHO) September 23, 2021 <script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.co..." charset="utf-8"></script>
In a world where the police unions want carte blanche to harass, humiliate, brutalize, rob, rape and murder citizens with impunity and legal immunity, aka the world we live in, cop-friendly police reform is an oxymoron.
That's the central problem. I guess the theory is "fewer interactions with the police means fewer opportunities for the police to abuse you" but it still leaves a more poorly funded and abusive police force (look for examples in GOP-heavy areas, like Mississippi--not exactly examples of enlightened policing). And if the answer to a crime victim is "well, the police would have just abused you so good luck walking out your front stoop"--well, good luck selling that to anyone. That's not to say genuine police reform is easy--it's not, even if we had a massive majority in favor of it--but it's the only way this ever gets fixed.
It'll have to be imposed from the outside, and it won't be easy but it's the only way this gets fixed.
and how wealthy were those voters' neighborhoods
The training I meant was in de-escalation tactics, safe stops, etc. That alone won't do it--any reforms need teeth, with police facing a realistic punishment for violating these rules--but I don't see any way to fix the police without it.
That's how the opposition frames it--you either support law and order and police lives, or you're on the side of chaos. I reject that, as effective, lawful and accountable policing is better for the cops as well as the citizens. Unions don't always act in their members' own best long term interest.
Cops are predominately authoritarian-minded -- notice their disproportionate presence among the MAGA mob and their refusal to get vaccinated, despite the impact on public health.
You would need to dismantle the entire system and start over. But as there aren’t that many job opportunities for proto-fascists outside of law enforcement and politics, they will fight any meaningful reform tooth and nail.
The really annoying thing is that once we get honest about dealing with crime, then that gives us a chance to talk about gun violence. We need to tie the issues together.
I think the heaviest lift for police reform--and why I'm pessimistic about it--is that no matter what new tactics you introduce or accountability measures you put in place, the biggest problem is ingrained attitudes on the part of the cops, the government actors that work with the cops, and the citizens themselves. Cops circle the wagons when one of their own is accused (with unions backing them up), prosecutors, mayors, etc. don't want to look like they're anti-law enforcement, and citizens (especially serving on juries) don't like to second guess them. So even with review boards, even with IA departments, even with media attention on this, you still get WAY too much leeway given to cops who step over the line and this pervasive sense of "what do you know if you're not out there in the blue". Reform is necessary but it's a tough current to swim against to impose accountability.
Well thanks Cory but it is time to call your "old friend" out. He doesn't give a shit about you. More importantly he doesn't give a shit about Black people beaten by police. This might cause me concern for his mental health but FUCK HIM.
“Great esteemed body” from the mouths of babes…
Making it easier to fire abusive cops would be a good start. If it means firing every one of them that doesn't get that they can't just beat up on suspects, so be it.