"the University’s apparent lack of support for Jane Doe."
`
I'll give no identifying information here, but I worked in higher ed administration for 20 years -- three different schools in three different states -- and personally know survivors of rape and gay-bashing (severe enough to put him in the hospital). Some schools are better (safe escorts, ride services, etc.) and some are worse -- but overall, colleges and universities have a shameful record of handling these assaults very poorly.
Frat pigs were doing the same things, and university officials were making the same excuses, and the same whole world was super worried in the same way about the boys’ same futures and same reputations, in the eighties. The whole greek system should’ve been abolished then and it should still be now.
Why would a woman go to the campus police and file a "complaint" that basically -- if that DA is to be believed (Lol!) -- consisted of her telling the cops that she had gotten wasted and then participated in a crazy orgy at a frat party? Or, did she describe what happened, and then the DA looked at it and went, "Well, nothing to see here!" and moved on, and is now trying to furiously cover his highly exposed ass? Ockham's razor suggests the latter, and the victim herself has said that her original complaint was not different from what she's claiming now.
I hope in the future any sexual assault complaint on campus should be automatically referred to the NY State Police, which has the knowledge and resources to actually investigate this stuff properly. I get that some victims may not want to get law enforcement involved, but if they do, it shouldn't be just the campus police that handles it.
I just asked my husband if he knew what happened at Cornell
His response was.. I didn't read the news today
Like, I truly love the man, but it must be fucking nice to be able to be ignorant about this stuff
And I have been track Substack comments. I have seen ONE man post about it and in allllllll the non Wonkette commentary I have seen ONE man commenting
Until men decide to hold other men accountable and teach their sons to hold the bros accountable none of this will fucking change. There are ALWAYS so many opportunities for men not to be raging assholes.
John Fugelsang, comedian, host of the radio show "Tell Me Everything", and comic reincarnation of Soren Kierkegaard (they are both Danish), reflected on our culture's inability or unwillingness to support victims of sexual assault. He said something like this (quoting from memory):
It's not only the bad guys who feel entitled to sexual favors without asking, or who act out their anger toward women (and other men) in sexual ways, it's also the good guys who are part of the problem. The reason for this is that the good guys cannot wrap their brains around the sheer magnitude of the problem, even though they empathize. They cannot accept the certainty that someone in their lives have been victimized by sexual assault or harassment. And thus their response isn't as strong as it should be.
I think that's a fair summary of what Fugelsang said. I think the good guys among us could try to understand the depth and breadth of the issue and maybe do more to change the culture. But what do I know? I'm just a guy who yells at strangers on the Internet.
I can't at the moment recall what the other incident was, but this is the second time I've watched something start out on Tumblr and Bluesky and only after it started gaining notice there did it finally receive mainstream attention. Wonkette came in somewhere between those two - I'd been seeing it bounce around small accounts for a week or so before Robyn's first article. NPR was next, but that took at least another week.
It seems a bit of a shame that average Joe and Joettes have to rattle the bars loudly enough to get the media to notice ( and I tend to think of Wonkette as closer to the average palookah in cases like this). But at least it's finally attracting some attention.
Thank you, Robyn. Unfortunately, many victims of sexual assault are told by the DA's office that the evidence they share will not be sufficient to bring the case forward. That leaves many students to do the only thing they can, report their assault to campus police (I worked as a director of a college counseling center and worked closely with campus police and the Title IX office). Given the high bar for a DA's office to pursue a sexual assault case, victims have little choice but rely on their Title IX office to investigate and pursue some sort of justice.
I have serious questions also about what happened in this case. However, I think our criminal justice system is not equipped to pursue justice on behalf of sexual assault victims. This story is case in point. First we have to believe survivors and then we have to believe they deserve justice. Many, many perpetrators are never punished because the victim has to be a "good" victim (meaning believable with vast quantities of evidence and have worn modest clothing and not drunk alcohol or taken a drug) and she has to have receipts. We are all culpable I'm afraid, as DA's bring only the strongest of cases because juries don't believe survivors. Therein lies the problem, the vast majority of us don't believe survivors.
Like did the DA think she was bragging? I bet the conversation between the University cops and the DA is something neither of them would ever want to see the light and day.
10 drinks - end of conversation.
"the University’s apparent lack of support for Jane Doe."
`
I'll give no identifying information here, but I worked in higher ed administration for 20 years -- three different schools in three different states -- and personally know survivors of rape and gay-bashing (severe enough to put him in the hospital). Some schools are better (safe escorts, ride services, etc.) and some are worse -- but overall, colleges and universities have a shameful record of handling these assaults very poorly.
Frat pigs were doing the same things, and university officials were making the same excuses, and the same whole world was super worried in the same way about the boys’ same futures and same reputations, in the eighties. The whole greek system should’ve been abolished then and it should still be now.
Did the campus police take Ms. Doe to the hospital? If not, why not? That's a very basic step in a rape case and for her health as well.
Why would a woman go to the campus police and file a "complaint" that basically -- if that DA is to be believed (Lol!) -- consisted of her telling the cops that she had gotten wasted and then participated in a crazy orgy at a frat party? Or, did she describe what happened, and then the DA looked at it and went, "Well, nothing to see here!" and moved on, and is now trying to furiously cover his highly exposed ass? Ockham's razor suggests the latter, and the victim herself has said that her original complaint was not different from what she's claiming now.
I hope in the future any sexual assault complaint on campus should be automatically referred to the NY State Police, which has the knowledge and resources to actually investigate this stuff properly. I get that some victims may not want to get law enforcement involved, but if they do, it shouldn't be just the campus police that handles it.
Weird how an organization charged with protecting young men and young women wouldn’t be trained to communicate with , um, young men and young women.
Infuriating!
I just asked my husband if he knew what happened at Cornell
His response was.. I didn't read the news today
Like, I truly love the man, but it must be fucking nice to be able to be ignorant about this stuff
And I have been track Substack comments. I have seen ONE man post about it and in allllllll the non Wonkette commentary I have seen ONE man commenting
Until men decide to hold other men accountable and teach their sons to hold the bros accountable none of this will fucking change. There are ALWAYS so many opportunities for men not to be raging assholes.
John Fugelsang, comedian, host of the radio show "Tell Me Everything", and comic reincarnation of Soren Kierkegaard (they are both Danish), reflected on our culture's inability or unwillingness to support victims of sexual assault. He said something like this (quoting from memory):
It's not only the bad guys who feel entitled to sexual favors without asking, or who act out their anger toward women (and other men) in sexual ways, it's also the good guys who are part of the problem. The reason for this is that the good guys cannot wrap their brains around the sheer magnitude of the problem, even though they empathize. They cannot accept the certainty that someone in their lives have been victimized by sexual assault or harassment. And thus their response isn't as strong as it should be.
I think that's a fair summary of what Fugelsang said. I think the good guys among us could try to understand the depth and breadth of the issue and maybe do more to change the culture. But what do I know? I'm just a guy who yells at strangers on the Internet.
Great reporting Robyn . So sad angering ,and deep . Hugs and Peace to all
Right. But I'm asking what further punishments *Cornell* could have imposed. Colleges don't indict or imprison people.
Also I'm not sure what you mean by permanent record, which is I think a high school thing (at least on TV). Do you mean criminal record?
Cornell could have turned it over to the Ithica police. That's what they could have done.
Agreed.
I can't at the moment recall what the other incident was, but this is the second time I've watched something start out on Tumblr and Bluesky and only after it started gaining notice there did it finally receive mainstream attention. Wonkette came in somewhere between those two - I'd been seeing it bounce around small accounts for a week or so before Robyn's first article. NPR was next, but that took at least another week.
It seems a bit of a shame that average Joe and Joettes have to rattle the bars loudly enough to get the media to notice ( and I tend to think of Wonkette as closer to the average palookah in cases like this). But at least it's finally attracting some attention.
Thank you, Robyn. Unfortunately, many victims of sexual assault are told by the DA's office that the evidence they share will not be sufficient to bring the case forward. That leaves many students to do the only thing they can, report their assault to campus police (I worked as a director of a college counseling center and worked closely with campus police and the Title IX office). Given the high bar for a DA's office to pursue a sexual assault case, victims have little choice but rely on their Title IX office to investigate and pursue some sort of justice.
I have serious questions also about what happened in this case. However, I think our criminal justice system is not equipped to pursue justice on behalf of sexual assault victims. This story is case in point. First we have to believe survivors and then we have to believe they deserve justice. Many, many perpetrators are never punished because the victim has to be a "good" victim (meaning believable with vast quantities of evidence and have worn modest clothing and not drunk alcohol or taken a drug) and she has to have receipts. We are all culpable I'm afraid, as DA's bring only the strongest of cases because juries don't believe survivors. Therein lies the problem, the vast majority of us don't believe survivors.
Excellent piece-thank you. There are some old creepy guys out there who believe this was consensual. Jesus Christ.🤦♀️🤦♀️
Like did the DA think she was bragging? I bet the conversation between the University cops and the DA is something neither of them would ever want to see the light and day.
The DA did the math. Seven Cornell frat bros would have a minimum of four lawyers among their families with a lot of money and extremely high stakes.
“Although I guess they can now be used as evidence against them, so there’s that”
This would be the best kind of irony.