I agree with you that Stacey Abrams (at least temporarily) flipping GA was due to organization.
I vehemently disagree that we've defeated fascism in this country. We've stemmed the tide a little, and it was way harder than it should have been. There's still plenty of facism in statehouses, state's attorneys offices, police forces, mayor's offices, school boards, city councils, homeowners associations, ....and in the electorate.
Thinking that winning the Presidency is all there is too it, then I can't really explain it to you.
If you can't see how Democrats lost this election, then tell me how their agenda moves forward? 2 Senate wins in GA? I'll be thrilled if that happens, but I'd rather not count on it.
Well, not Ohio. Those "wins" were in formerly solid Dem states.
Can you point me to the analysis that shows it was former Trump voters and not, say, a coalition of young people, people of color and some first time voters that put Biden over the top in WI & MI?
...and by the way: where's Stacey Abrams' shiny new role in the DNC? I have not heard that she's being rewarded / appropriately weaponized at a broader level?
You seem to be misunderstanding me. There are two possible interpretations of the data:
"Dems didn't do well legislatively because Trumpism, racism and fascism are still popular among a lot of white folks, even if Trump himself is now toxic" vs."Dems didn't do well legislatively because blunders and fecklessness from the DNC; if my preferred faction were in control, we would have won both houses and 400 EVs!"
Do you see the point I'm making? The question is what conclusions you draw. I think "emulate Stacey Abrams in 50 states" is a better way forward than "purge the DLC, adopt a balls-out AOC/defund the police platform". We look at the MAGAts currently trying to cannibalize the establishment GOP; I don't think that's something to emulate.
So there's no confusion, I'm a very strong socialist. But the realities of the US electoral system is that the Dems can ONLY win ELECTIONS as a broad coalition which includes people like Biden, Pelosi and Schumer. Grassroots organising and protest action such as BLM are another kettle of fish, and I also reject the people whining that "defund the police lost us the election" (only about 4 elected Dems took up that slogan).
I strongly suspect that Republican reps who did not sign on are every bit as beholden to "their corporate masters" as are those who did. I don't really think that's where your answer lies.
Here's a specific recommendation for a specific Democrat: the new House will be seated in January. At that first meeting, Speaker Pelosi should read into the record a resolution to censure all the Republican Representatives who signed onto the Texas suit as guilty of violating House rules. Once that passes, each of those Representatives should then be stripped of any House Committee seats whose chairs don't wish to have censured members. This will deprive them - including the Minority Leader - of any effective power in the upcoming session. I don't consider Pelosi or Schumer - or Biden or Obama - evil, but I do think they have failed to act to protect the country and the Constitution from a recognized threat: the Republican Party. Unlike the repeatedly disproven claims by Republicans that liberals, progressives, and Democratic voters are destroying America, the facts of Republican sedition are on full display. That's why many of us share SER's anger at the possibility of this being swept under the rug.
Yes, I see the point your making. It's a straw man argument.
I believe that we need a broad coalition to succeed. I'll also point out that currently that coalition is the DLC and sit the fuck down and shut up, and that coalition hasn't been succeeding.
I also don't take my advice on how to win from the Lincoln Project. Nothing elicits a faster bitter laugh than the frequent right wing punditry's advice to Democrats on how to win: push Republican economics. (My favorite recent example, a regular of the genre, was SE Cupp's "Let's see who Joe selects as VP before we make up our mind")
I think we agree on many things, including the strategy of replicating Abrams across 50 states. I used to register voters with ACORN. I don't think GA "is blue" so much as it is "blinking blue". Even if a miracle happens and both seats go Dem, we replace Mitch McConnell setting the agenda with Joe Manchin. Is it a win? Sure
I agree that would be a good move in princple. The main problem I have here is in your last sentence, with "possibility". A lot of people seem to be getting furious with the Dem leadership IN ADVANCE. The narrative that "Dems are feckless, weak and always lose" is drummed into our head by Right-wing media so much that we turn on each other EVEN WHEN WE WON.
Big issue going forward for Old Handsome Joe is that he'll need to get a couple of the less outright fascist Republicans in the Senate on his side to make anything happen (I mean Mittens and that horrible woman in Maine in particular), even if Ossoff and Warnock both win. What tactics do we use going forward to make that happen? I hate the idea that we're becoming like the Trumpists for whom their guy performing antics and owning the libs is a substitute for actually getting anything done. Your specific proposal might possibly be a good one considering how many GOP Senators have rolled their eyes at the 126's garbage, but actually doing it may have risks.
... Joe won the election and flipped the Rust Belt. Acting like beating Trump was a foregone conclusion that even a child could do was the very mistake that those DLC people you hate made in 2016. It's dangerous because it ignores that fascist politics are VERY POPULAR in white America. It leads to nonsense like the "Bernie would have won 40 states" narratives which is as much an alternative universe as the Trump ones, even if I much prefer Bernie's programme (I backed Warren as it happens).
Again, where have I said "Bernie would have won 40 states?" Why are you treating me like a straw man? I think it's appalling that Trump could have won in 2020 and did in 2016. I see his base pretty clearly.
What I said id that Democrats really should just fucking stop trying to win those people over.
I was also for Warren. I don't expect the Dems to magically transform into the Socialist Party, but I would like them to stop being so dissmissive and hostile to the left wing and stop acting like their strategies have been successful over time.
But Joe won precisely because of winning "those people" (white suburbanite conservatives, soft-Republicans NOT actual Trump-fascists) over in the Rust Belt. And Stacey Abrams got the black vote out in GA, the two tactics were not counterposed. In fact, you've disproved yourself - the fact that GOP downballot did better than Trump shows that the tactic of "winning those people over" to Biden worked.
It is also a fact that "defund the police" was poison to those people, like "socialism" is poison to Cubans in Florida etc. That does NOT mean that the Left should abandon those slogans/ideas for organising at the base. My whole point is that organising people at the base is sometimes counterposed to winning elections in a 2-party system. Both the angry progressives and the Doughnut Centrists seem to think that one will inevitably lead to the other.
I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. Game on, Bitches! We are on and have control of the White House and Congress. Let’s do some shit.
I agree with you that Stacey Abrams (at least temporarily) flipping GA was due to organization.
I vehemently disagree that we've defeated fascism in this country. We've stemmed the tide a little, and it was way harder than it should have been. There's still plenty of facism in statehouses, state's attorneys offices, police forces, mayor's offices, school boards, city councils, homeowners associations, ....and in the electorate.
Thinking that winning the Presidency is all there is too it, then I can't really explain it to you.
If you can't see how Democrats lost this election, then tell me how their agenda moves forward? 2 Senate wins in GA? I'll be thrilled if that happens, but I'd rather not count on it.
Well, not Ohio. Those "wins" were in formerly solid Dem states.
Can you point me to the analysis that shows it was former Trump voters and not, say, a coalition of young people, people of color and some first time voters that put Biden over the top in WI & MI?
...and by the way: where's Stacey Abrams' shiny new role in the DNC? I have not heard that she's being rewarded / appropriately weaponized at a broader level?
You seem to be misunderstanding me. There are two possible interpretations of the data:
"Dems didn't do well legislatively because Trumpism, racism and fascism are still popular among a lot of white folks, even if Trump himself is now toxic" vs."Dems didn't do well legislatively because blunders and fecklessness from the DNC; if my preferred faction were in control, we would have won both houses and 400 EVs!"
Do you see the point I'm making? The question is what conclusions you draw. I think "emulate Stacey Abrams in 50 states" is a better way forward than "purge the DLC, adopt a balls-out AOC/defund the police platform". We look at the MAGAts currently trying to cannibalize the establishment GOP; I don't think that's something to emulate.
So there's no confusion, I'm a very strong socialist. But the realities of the US electoral system is that the Dems can ONLY win ELECTIONS as a broad coalition which includes people like Biden, Pelosi and Schumer. Grassroots organising and protest action such as BLM are another kettle of fish, and I also reject the people whining that "defund the police lost us the election" (only about 4 elected Dems took up that slogan).
I strongly suspect that Republican reps who did not sign on are every bit as beholden to "their corporate masters" as are those who did. I don't really think that's where your answer lies.
Here's a specific recommendation for a specific Democrat: the new House will be seated in January. At that first meeting, Speaker Pelosi should read into the record a resolution to censure all the Republican Representatives who signed onto the Texas suit as guilty of violating House rules. Once that passes, each of those Representatives should then be stripped of any House Committee seats whose chairs don't wish to have censured members. This will deprive them - including the Minority Leader - of any effective power in the upcoming session. I don't consider Pelosi or Schumer - or Biden or Obama - evil, but I do think they have failed to act to protect the country and the Constitution from a recognized threat: the Republican Party. Unlike the repeatedly disproven claims by Republicans that liberals, progressives, and Democratic voters are destroying America, the facts of Republican sedition are on full display. That's why many of us share SER's anger at the possibility of this being swept under the rug.
Yes, I see the point your making. It's a straw man argument.
I believe that we need a broad coalition to succeed. I'll also point out that currently that coalition is the DLC and sit the fuck down and shut up, and that coalition hasn't been succeeding.
I also don't take my advice on how to win from the Lincoln Project. Nothing elicits a faster bitter laugh than the frequent right wing punditry's advice to Democrats on how to win: push Republican economics. (My favorite recent example, a regular of the genre, was SE Cupp's "Let's see who Joe selects as VP before we make up our mind")
I think we agree on many things, including the strategy of replicating Abrams across 50 states. I used to register voters with ACORN. I don't think GA "is blue" so much as it is "blinking blue". Even if a miracle happens and both seats go Dem, we replace Mitch McConnell setting the agenda with Joe Manchin. Is it a win? Sure
I agree that would be a good move in princple. The main problem I have here is in your last sentence, with "possibility". A lot of people seem to be getting furious with the Dem leadership IN ADVANCE. The narrative that "Dems are feckless, weak and always lose" is drummed into our head by Right-wing media so much that we turn on each other EVEN WHEN WE WON.
Big issue going forward for Old Handsome Joe is that he'll need to get a couple of the less outright fascist Republicans in the Senate on his side to make anything happen (I mean Mittens and that horrible woman in Maine in particular), even if Ossoff and Warnock both win. What tactics do we use going forward to make that happen? I hate the idea that we're becoming like the Trumpists for whom their guy performing antics and owning the libs is a substitute for actually getting anything done. Your specific proposal might possibly be a good one considering how many GOP Senators have rolled their eyes at the 126's garbage, but actually doing it may have risks.
"that coalition hasn't been succeeding."
... Joe won the election and flipped the Rust Belt. Acting like beating Trump was a foregone conclusion that even a child could do was the very mistake that those DLC people you hate made in 2016. It's dangerous because it ignores that fascist politics are VERY POPULAR in white America. It leads to nonsense like the "Bernie would have won 40 states" narratives which is as much an alternative universe as the Trump ones, even if I much prefer Bernie's programme (I backed Warren as it happens).
Did you send this recommendation to Speaker Pelosi or are you just whining on the internet?
Again, where have I said "Bernie would have won 40 states?" Why are you treating me like a straw man? I think it's appalling that Trump could have won in 2020 and did in 2016. I see his base pretty clearly.
What I said id that Democrats really should just fucking stop trying to win those people over.
I was also for Warren. I don't expect the Dems to magically transform into the Socialist Party, but I would like them to stop being so dissmissive and hostile to the left wing and stop acting like their strategies have been successful over time.
But Joe won precisely because of winning "those people" (white suburbanite conservatives, soft-Republicans NOT actual Trump-fascists) over in the Rust Belt. And Stacey Abrams got the black vote out in GA, the two tactics were not counterposed. In fact, you've disproved yourself - the fact that GOP downballot did better than Trump shows that the tactic of "winning those people over" to Biden worked.
It is also a fact that "defund the police" was poison to those people, like "socialism" is poison to Cubans in Florida etc. That does NOT mean that the Left should abandon those slogans/ideas for organising at the base. My whole point is that organising people at the base is sometimes counterposed to winning elections in a 2-party system. Both the angry progressives and the Doughnut Centrists seem to think that one will inevitably lead to the other.
"Go climb your thumb" -------------- if you're trying to invent a new phrase, Bravo.
Thank you, SER. I've been saying for years the GOP is why the RICO Act was passed.
It did, but its not easy
It's catchy! Less catchy by far, but maybe with possibilities, is "Vote every Republican in reach out of office."