Just in case you hadn't heard about Donald Trump's very special weekend shitshow , he had a terrible horrible no-good very bad Saturday at the Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa, where he made the mistake of talking smack about somebody other than Mexicans.
I'm no fan of McCain, but he was not responsible for the USS Forrestal fire. Gregory Freeman, author of Sailors to the End, a book on the Forrestal disaster, pretty conclusively addresses the matter here:
The recent presidential race gave new life to some bad information about McCain and the Forrestal fire. As my book Sailors to the End explains in some detail, the fire actually was started by an unusual combination of electrical glitches and human errors by the flight deck crew, which resulted in a Zuni rocket being fired across the deck and into McCain's plane. Theories about a "wet start" and other possible causes were disproven soon after the fire. McCain was never suspected of causing the fire because investigators determined immediately that the rocket misfired from the other side of the flight deck. (The pilot of that plane also was not at fault.)The real culprit in the 134 deaths on the Forrestal was the Navy's decision to supply the carrier with very old, unstable bombs that exploded on the flight deck once the fire started. Bombs typical for 1967 would have withstood the fire long enough for the crew to put out the blaze, but the old bombs blew up almost immediately and turned what could have been a manageable fire into a disaster.Some detractors are citing the Forrestal fire as an example of McCain's supposedly reckless behavior or poor performance as a pilot, but the facts do not support this conclusion. Regardless of what kind of pilot McCain was, on this day he was essentially a bystander to the cause of the fire, just like all the other pilots. He didn't cause it and he narrowly escaped death by jumping out of his plane as it was engulfed in fire. Once on the flight deck, McCain was injured when a 1,000-lb. bomb exploded. He then went below decks and assisted the crew with the difficult task of throwing bombs overboard to prevent them from blowing up in the fire. Afterward, he went to the pilots' ready room.McCain did nothing inappropriate on July 29, 1967. While he is the first to say that credit for the heroic actions on the Forrestal that day should go to the ship's crew, McCain responded properly and admirably, as any Navy pilot would in such a crisis.
McCain may have been a lousy pilot, but he was definitely not responsible for the Forrestal disaster -- and claiming he was is one of those bits of folklore on our side of the political spectrum that I wish people would drop forever. There's plenty to dislike about him, but no, he didn't kill 130 of his shipmates.
If he feels such contempt for POWs, I can only imagine how he feels about those who were killed in combat. "They are only heroes because they didn't manage to stay alive, OK? I like people who don't get killed."
Wrong. Everything you do in a fighter/attack jet is tactics, from the max angle climb on departure to coming up initial at 500kts and pitching out over friendlies to minimize your exposure to small arms fire. And EVERYTHING in between.
"Praising the military even when it fails is really a disease."
Agreed, except that the US military is not a junta that makes the calls. The people who send them into unwinnable wars are our duly elected leaders.
I was not surprised about the outcome of Vietnam, and if we ever get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, I am pretty sure that I know what that outcome will be as well.
For a nickel I'll give you a prediction on the outcome of a potential land war in Iran too, if we ever elect anybody stupid enough to have the military go there. [Nervously eyeing nearly the entire Republican field this year.]
I didnt blame McCain for the Forrestal and looking back at my post, I didnt make that clear. Commonly, people quote he was involved in the destruction of 5 planes, when in fact it was 5 'incidents'. I am aware that a Zuni rocket triggered the disaster on the Forrestal, but my other point still stands. Before the Forrestal, he had already destroyed 2 planes and violated flight safety rules a 3rd time. If he were anyone else and not the son and grandson of admirals by the same name, he would have been grounded.
Im a vet myself and think poorly of those who would attack vets and make light of their service, but McCain's record bothers me for other reasons. I would be much happier with him if he was clearly against the illegal behavior of the Bush administration (Guantanamo, torture, etc) and an ally of veterans, but when push comes to shove, he is little more than just another Republican.
A Trump third party run would all but seal victory for the Left and more importantly, might even convince Jon Stewart to return to The Daily Show. Double win.
I'm no fan of McCain, but he was not responsible for the USS Forrestal fire. Gregory Freeman, author of Sailors to the End, a book on the Forrestal disaster, pretty conclusively addresses the matter here:
The recent presidential race gave new life to some bad information about McCain and the Forrestal fire. As my book Sailors to the End explains in some detail, the fire actually was started by an unusual combination of electrical glitches and human errors by the flight deck crew, which resulted in a Zuni rocket being fired across the deck and into McCain's plane. Theories about a "wet start" and other possible causes were disproven soon after the fire. McCain was never suspected of causing the fire because investigators determined immediately that the rocket misfired from the other side of the flight deck. (The pilot of that plane also was not at fault.)The real culprit in the 134 deaths on the Forrestal was the Navy's decision to supply the carrier with very old, unstable bombs that exploded on the flight deck once the fire started. Bombs typical for 1967 would have withstood the fire long enough for the crew to put out the blaze, but the old bombs blew up almost immediately and turned what could have been a manageable fire into a disaster.Some detractors are citing the Forrestal fire as an example of McCain's supposedly reckless behavior or poor performance as a pilot, but the facts do not support this conclusion. Regardless of what kind of pilot McCain was, on this day he was essentially a bystander to the cause of the fire, just like all the other pilots. He didn't cause it and he narrowly escaped death by jumping out of his plane as it was engulfed in fire. Once on the flight deck, McCain was injured when a 1,000-lb. bomb exploded. He then went below decks and assisted the crew with the difficult task of throwing bombs overboard to prevent them from blowing up in the fire. Afterward, he went to the pilots' ready room.McCain did nothing inappropriate on July 29, 1967. While he is the first to say that credit for the heroic actions on the Forrestal that day should go to the ship's crew, McCain responded properly and admirably, as any Navy pilot would in such a crisis.
McCain may have been a lousy pilot, but he was definitely not responsible for the Forrestal disaster -- and claiming he was is one of those bits of folklore on our side of the political spectrum that I wish people would drop forever. There's plenty to dislike about him, but no, he didn't kill 130 of his shipmates.
If he feels such contempt for POWs, I can only imagine how he feels about those who were killed in combat. "They are only heroes because they didn't manage to stay alive, OK? I like people who don't get killed."
Wrong. Everything you do in a fighter/attack jet is tactics, from the max angle climb on departure to coming up initial at 500kts and pitching out over friendlies to minimize your exposure to small arms fire. And EVERYTHING in between.
"Praising the military even when it fails is really a disease."
Agreed, except that the US military is not a junta that makes the calls. The people who send them into unwinnable wars are our duly elected leaders.
I was not surprised about the outcome of Vietnam, and if we ever get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, I am pretty sure that I know what that outcome will be as well.
For a nickel I'll give you a prediction on the outcome of a potential land war in Iran too, if we ever elect anybody stupid enough to have the military go there. [Nervously eyeing nearly the entire Republican field this year.]
Then you should have a better understanding of who actually sent you to SE Asia.
OBTW, I'm retired AF and got to "enjoy" Gulf War I in a jet and a couple deployments to Bosnia embedded with ground forces.
My dickish work buddies had nothing to say about the donald today, nothing at all. Crash & burn indeed.
I didnt blame McCain for the Forrestal and looking back at my post, I didnt make that clear. Commonly, people quote he was involved in the destruction of 5 planes, when in fact it was 5 'incidents'. I am aware that a Zuni rocket triggered the disaster on the Forrestal, but my other point still stands. Before the Forrestal, he had already destroyed 2 planes and violated flight safety rules a 3rd time. If he were anyone else and not the son and grandson of admirals by the same name, he would have been grounded.
Im a vet myself and think poorly of those who would attack vets and make light of their service, but McCain's record bothers me for other reasons. I would be much happier with him if he was clearly against the illegal behavior of the Bush administration (Guantanamo, torture, etc) and an ally of veterans, but when push comes to shove, he is little more than just another Republican.
Have a great day!
A Trump third party run would all but seal victory for the Left and more importantly, might even convince Jon Stewart to return to The Daily Show. Double win.
There did come a point, however, when his family connections no longer sufficed to provide camouflage for his own abilities.
Which is why he never became an Admiral himself.
somewhere,maybe here,I saw a pic of a young trump and he had the same weasel on his head.
You're a hero!
What as ass.
If crashing multiple expensive jets because you're a legacy gives you 'vast military experience', then McCain has earned it.
Oh, really? http://www.rollingstone.com...
Victory Derp!
Let's all be nice to Trump, so that he does indeed run as a third-party candidate. If he does, the GOP is fucked