It's a lead weight chained to our feet. Maybe we could tolerate it like the House of Lords, which gets to send bills back for reconsideration but not block them forever.
Actually what happened is George McGovern and later Jimmy Carter cratered so bad that the party had to come up with some way to keep the donations coming in. Was it right to turn to corporations? I don't think so, but I at least understand why it happened. The rise of the DLC is intrinsically tied to very public and historic failures of the 70's progressives.
You have not made any point at all, except that you profess not to understand what I'm saying. Do you want to give a viewpoint on what Sinema is doing as you see it? Or are you just trolling pure-form?
Now we know why Moscow Mitch has been rather quiet lately. What's Mitch gonna do that Joe Manchin (and now, Marie Antoinette) and Kyrsten Sinema won't do? Joe is simply teaching her how the game is played. She's willing but, reality isn't a fucking game.
She is voting against the amendment because she doesn't believe it belongs on this bill, since the parliamentarian has already ruled against it. Just like she has repeatedly said, just like pretty much anyone paying attention already understood, just like I've pointed out many times in this thread. Sheesh, you're the one who is all over the place- first you claimed she wanted the amendment to fail, but not get blamed for the failure- which I pointed out is absurd considering how she went about it. Then you claimed that she would only support it if she knew it would fail- an equally idiotic claim that I also skewered. Then you tried to pretend you didn't say that.
Now you're claiming to be some sort of mind reader and claiming that all the evidence from the past showing that she has been in favor raising the MW doesn't count- because reasons. Fuck if I know what those reasons are- your reasoning on this nonsense is just as incoherent as the rest of it. She's a secret poor person hater who has pretended for years to favor raising the MW? She's lying when she clearly states that her opposition today was procedural? Her office is lying when they say she still supports raising the MW?
Face it, you've got some sort of a hard on for her and no matter what evidence anyone presents, no matter what facts anyone offers, no matter what alternate explanations- no matter how much less convoluted any of my reasoning than the shit you've offered- you're going to go on hating her and believing the worst.
That's your prerogative- frankly I don't give a shit if you like her or not. But don't think for a second that you've made anything remotely close to a coherent point here justifying your feelings. Once again, you've been all over the fucking map and not making a bit of sense. And every time I poke a hole in your nonsense, you just move the goalposts and keep plowing ahead. You're not a mind reader and neither am I- neither of us knows what's in her heart. The difference is- I'm not arrogantly claiming I do. I'm basing my viewpoint on all the overwhelming evidence that shows that she seems to have a genuine thing for process and procedure and opposes overruling the parliamentarian-a position that several of her fellow senators also have. You OTOH seem to have a stick up your ass about her and want to believe the worst no matter what I say- so knock yourself out. I really don't care. just don't insult my intelligence trying to justify your feelings.
Uh, the problem with the 1st sentence in your 1st paragraph is the 4th and 5th words in the 1st sentence in the 2nd paragraph - "West Virginians".
It's amazing that they vote ANY Dems into office there as WV is one of the least liberal states in the area, and the most white..."The 5 largest ethnic groups in West Virginia are White (Non-Hispanic) (92%), Black or African American (Non-Hispanic) (3.77%), Two+ (Non-Hispanic) (1.76%), White (Hispanic) (0.997%), and Asian (Non-Hispanic) (0.737%). 2.3% of the people in West Virginia speak a non-English language, and 99.3% are U.S. citizens" [Data USA]Plus, nearly all the surrounding states (MD, OH, PA, VA) are easily more liberal than WV - the only exception is KY.
If one tried to primary Manchin with a leftist Dem, Manchin would likely win, and if he somehow lost, the Repub would probably beat that leftist Dem.I agree that the DNC and DCCC should cut him loose, but why would they? Both groups are in the bag for centrist Dems, and have been for ages. Unless the demographics of WV changes significantly, not much is going to change.
I've mentioned this before, by my family on my father's side is from WV, so I don't bring up threatening jobs there lightly. But Schumer really needs to sit down and have a come to Jesus moment with Joe...wait, no. Schumer's Jewish...a discussion why some of the others in the caucus keep referring to him as "that goy".
I don't think they will necessarily be changing parties. After all, Tester and Manchin could've done this before, as they were both elected before Trump, when the Repub party wasn't full-out fascist.Only Sinema was elected during Trump.While they may be centrist or right, I don't see them as Trumpists, which the Repubs are now
West Virginia being conservative is a fairly new phenomenon. For most of my life, West Virginia was reliably Democrat. Jay Rockefeller was hands down the most famous politician from there. It flipped in the 90s.
It's a lead weight chained to our feet. Maybe we could tolerate it like the House of Lords, which gets to send bills back for reconsideration but not block them forever.
Actually what happened is George McGovern and later Jimmy Carter cratered so bad that the party had to come up with some way to keep the donations coming in. Was it right to turn to corporations? I don't think so, but I at least understand why it happened. The rise of the DLC is intrinsically tied to very public and historic failures of the 70's progressives.
You have not made any point at all, except that you profess not to understand what I'm saying. Do you want to give a viewpoint on what Sinema is doing as you see it? Or are you just trolling pure-form?
Now we know why Moscow Mitch has been rather quiet lately. What's Mitch gonna do that Joe Manchin (and now, Marie Antoinette) and Kyrsten Sinema won't do? Joe is simply teaching her how the game is played. She's willing but, reality isn't a fucking game.
I've got your fluid right here, Mr. Manchin. Piss on you.
Never mind. I'd get banhammered. And the bus would be injured.
It must be a state replete with masochists.
She is voting against the amendment because she doesn't believe it belongs on this bill, since the parliamentarian has already ruled against it. Just like she has repeatedly said, just like pretty much anyone paying attention already understood, just like I've pointed out many times in this thread. Sheesh, you're the one who is all over the place- first you claimed she wanted the amendment to fail, but not get blamed for the failure- which I pointed out is absurd considering how she went about it. Then you claimed that she would only support it if she knew it would fail- an equally idiotic claim that I also skewered. Then you tried to pretend you didn't say that.
Now you're claiming to be some sort of mind reader and claiming that all the evidence from the past showing that she has been in favor raising the MW doesn't count- because reasons. Fuck if I know what those reasons are- your reasoning on this nonsense is just as incoherent as the rest of it. She's a secret poor person hater who has pretended for years to favor raising the MW? She's lying when she clearly states that her opposition today was procedural? Her office is lying when they say she still supports raising the MW?
Face it, you've got some sort of a hard on for her and no matter what evidence anyone presents, no matter what facts anyone offers, no matter what alternate explanations- no matter how much less convoluted any of my reasoning than the shit you've offered- you're going to go on hating her and believing the worst.
That's your prerogative- frankly I don't give a shit if you like her or not. But don't think for a second that you've made anything remotely close to a coherent point here justifying your feelings. Once again, you've been all over the fucking map and not making a bit of sense. And every time I poke a hole in your nonsense, you just move the goalposts and keep plowing ahead. You're not a mind reader and neither am I- neither of us knows what's in her heart. The difference is- I'm not arrogantly claiming I do. I'm basing my viewpoint on all the overwhelming evidence that shows that she seems to have a genuine thing for process and procedure and opposes overruling the parliamentarian-a position that several of her fellow senators also have. You OTOH seem to have a stick up your ass about her and want to believe the worst no matter what I say- so knock yourself out. I really don't care. just don't insult my intelligence trying to justify your feelings.
Uh, the problem with the 1st sentence in your 1st paragraph is the 4th and 5th words in the 1st sentence in the 2nd paragraph - "West Virginians".
It's amazing that they vote ANY Dems into office there as WV is one of the least liberal states in the area, and the most white..."The 5 largest ethnic groups in West Virginia are White (Non-Hispanic) (92%), Black or African American (Non-Hispanic) (3.77%), Two+ (Non-Hispanic) (1.76%), White (Hispanic) (0.997%), and Asian (Non-Hispanic) (0.737%). 2.3% of the people in West Virginia speak a non-English language, and 99.3% are U.S. citizens" [Data USA]Plus, nearly all the surrounding states (MD, OH, PA, VA) are easily more liberal than WV - the only exception is KY.
If one tried to primary Manchin with a leftist Dem, Manchin would likely win, and if he somehow lost, the Repub would probably beat that leftist Dem.I agree that the DNC and DCCC should cut him loose, but why would they? Both groups are in the bag for centrist Dems, and have been for ages. Unless the demographics of WV changes significantly, not much is going to change.
They had been bought and sold LONG before that. They just increased their ownership percentage of Dem polticians in the Clinton years.
I've mentioned this before, by my family on my father's side is from WV, so I don't bring up threatening jobs there lightly. But Schumer really needs to sit down and have a come to Jesus moment with Joe...wait, no. Schumer's Jewish...a discussion why some of the others in the caucus keep referring to him as "that goy".
Either way it's inadequate.
I thought the original proposal was an extra $400/week until August, with the new one being an extra $300/week until September, plus the tax credit.
I don't think they will necessarily be changing parties. After all, Tester and Manchin could've done this before, as they were both elected before Trump, when the Repub party wasn't full-out fascist.Only Sinema was elected during Trump.While they may be centrist or right, I don't see them as Trumpists, which the Repubs are now
Thanks Uncle Milburn for the Zoom event.
West Virginia being conservative is a fairly new phenomenon. For most of my life, West Virginia was reliably Democrat. Jay Rockefeller was hands down the most famous politician from there. It flipped in the 90s.