"His evidence? John the Baptist’s mom was 88 years old when she gave birth to him! The Virgin Mary was probably about 13 or 14! Abraham’s wife was 90 when she had a baby!"
Which makes God look like a dick and this is just one of the very mild examples.
"Omnipotence does have its benefits. God would have known right from the start"
Omniscience does that, not omnipotence.
Besides, what does God's opinion have to do with laws in a supposedly non-Christian Theocracy country (and hopefully it stays that way)?
Forcing-birth on teen-agers is nothing new in Fundie circles, I knew two women who were forced to marry their seducer, because the parents were whacko religious. One never wanted the kid, who was mostly raised by her whacko forced-birth grandparents. She became a criminal at an early age, and is in jail as an adult. The other kid's mom escaped the religious environment, and he is fine but his mom is now a trumper, and has strange ideas about "punishing other women" for doing what she did, she is old enough that she was pre-Roe, and she hates that other women had a choice she did not.
Hey Joel Kitchens, how much gatekeeping should a trans person go through to get a surgery that affects their reproductive system? Perhaps it should be the same amount of gatekeeping that a cat has to go through to get spayed or neutered?
I think the full brunt of how fucked up medical gatekeeping is came when my insurance company agreed to cover my bottom surgery before any doctor would even give me a consultation, because they were all afraid I wasn't Truly Trans. I think it's partly because they're all afraid Republicans will imprison them for treating a trans person.
Hey, maybe let's apply that standard to abortion, too. My cat got a super duper abortion (spayed) without even knowing what it was. She certainly didn't need to prove she was raped or file a police report or convince us that she'd die in the next 24 hours. Maybe getting a human abortion should be just as easy.
And, like the veterinarians who don't eat meat, he is free, and indeed welcome, to not have abortions himself.
He's free to tell anyone who wants to listen to him that his experience leads him to believe that abortions are wrong. What he should not be free to do is use his experience as a vet to make laws about someone else's abortion.
I have a friend who is strongly anti abortion. She was offered a promotion in her job as a public health nurse, to counsel patients on reproductive issues. Because that would have included counselling on abortion, she did not take the job. That's what people who understand the difference between "me" and "not me" do - they make choices for themselves that reflect their own values, but do not impose those choices on others.
Rethugs are terrified that their forced-birth 2022 jubilee will result in a blue wave come November, and it damn well should. Biden’s campaign must remind all voters that this is what happens when you put the wrong people in power. Without Trump, there would be no Gorsuch, Kegs or Coney. Trump was just found liable by a second jury for lying about having sexually assaulted a woman in a clothing store. In any sane era in American history, this would destroy anyone’s political career. That’s without extortion of another country to gin up dirt on your opponent in exchange for military aid, or refusing to accept the outcome of an election and fomenting an insurrection and attempted coup. But we know reality is becoming increasingly indefinite as we embark on the age of misinformation.
I have a thought about our friend the veterinarian, Rep. Kitchens. When you take your female dog or cat to be spayed, there is an upcharge if the animal turns out to already be pregnant. You still go home with a spayed pet, no pups or kittens. Are there vets who won’t perform this service? Because it’s puppy abortion? Has Dr. Joel Science Kitchen snuffed out the lives of adorable kiddens?
A progressive instagram account I follow made a post about “pregnancy crisis” clinics getting federal funding to talk women out of getting abortions. I unwisely posted a comment about how the cruelty is the point, and some fucking troll responded thusly: “you really should invite a group of these people for a coffee and go visit their clinic to see their heart. I think you may come to a different conclusion.” My response: “ In my experience, these conversations all come back to, "if she didn't want a baby, she should have kept her legs closed," and thus the baby will be punishment for her "slutty" behavior. Never mind the kind of life the child is entering into, or whether the woman is emotionally prepared for a child, or financially capable of raising a child. With these groups, it's always about punishing the woman and never about the welfare of the child. Every single time.” Then he deleted his comment. These fuckers really do believe their own bullshit.
I saw a bus the other day from a crisis pregnancy center. It was wrapped in forced birth propaganda, including “abortion pill reversal.” I hope they were alarmed by the middle-aged lady blaring her horn and flipping them off as she accelerated past them.
Bad enough - more than bad enough - that these petrified fossils with petrified brains assume a right to control women's bodies based on a collection of myths and legends that were handed down word-of-mouth for centuries in the Bronze Age before anybody wrote them down. It almost becomes more infuriating when they make it clear that they don't even KNOW the sources they're citing.
Hundred to one that Sarah and Elizabeth didn't conceive at those advanced ages, or - considering when they lived, if they did really live - even REACH those advanced ages. As for Mary, the prophecy of the Messiah in the Book of Isaiah conventionally translated into English as " ... a virgin shall conceive ... " doesn't say that in the original source. It says " ... an almah shall conceive and bear a son ... " and "almah" means "a young woman." Not specifically a virgin. It also says, "She shall call his name Immanuel", and Mary didn't.
As for Jezebel, she may have had a dude murdered when he refused to sell her his vineyard, but that wasn't her real crime. Her real crime, and the reason she got all the bad press, was for being a foreign woman who worshipped different gods. David committed murder too, by sending Uriah the Hittite to the front lines to get killed, with a letter for the general that said, "Make sure he doesn't come back." He also worked as a mercenary for a Philistine king, an enemy of Israel, in his days as an outlaw with Saul demanding his head. He still ended up with all the good press.
It would be so nice if these prats just stopped wasting everybody's time with, "The Bible says so."
Anyway, the point of Sarah and Elizabeth's pregnancies is that they were miracles. They were meant to be regarded as something that only happened because god made a point of having them happen to these specific women. So even within the world of the Bible, even if you believe all of this, their point doesn't make the argument they think it makes. .
I have one question for Rep. Joel "abortion is not healthcare" Kitchens. As a veterinarian are legally allowed to practice medicine on humans? STFU, asshole.
Yes, this. And I think that is at the root, for some of them, of their weird control, power, and punishment issues. They were raised to conform, not rebel, keep their mouths shut, and be grateful for being "disciplined". And now they are adults, and have to justify the pain they endured as children by inflicting it on others. It's a very fucked up world view, and self perpetuating. The homeschooling movement is just making it worse - used to be, kids were exposed at school to other ways of looking at the world. Now they can make sure their kids get all the humanity crushed out of them before adulthood, without those kids ever learning that there are other ways to live.
WaPo did a heart-breaking article on a homeschooled couple who had a very bright daughter so she wanted to go to a real school (public school). when she statrted bring homework home, they couldn't help her because they didn't know any of the subjects!
Two of my nieces were homeschooled back in the day - parents were back to the land hippies, sorta. (still are). One of them decided to go to high school in their tiny little isolated town. She's bright, she was very well read, and did well enough that some of her teachers encouraged her to enrol in a big eastern university.
Where she spectacularly crashed and burned. She had huge gaps in her knowledge of things that neither she nor her parents had been interested in, so she was just never taught. Didn't even know they existed, for some things.
How sad. I picture that being the case with many homeschooled, and the religious schools, too, with the exception of the Catholic schools, because the Jesuits who are usually the instructors are vey well educated. (at least that is what I have read.)
"His evidence? John the Baptist’s mom was 88 years old when she gave birth to him! The Virgin Mary was probably about 13 or 14! Abraham’s wife was 90 when she had a baby!"
Which makes God look like a dick and this is just one of the very mild examples.
"Omnipotence does have its benefits. God would have known right from the start"
Omniscience does that, not omnipotence.
Besides, what does God's opinion have to do with laws in a supposedly non-Christian Theocracy country (and hopefully it stays that way)?
Forcing-birth on teen-agers is nothing new in Fundie circles, I knew two women who were forced to marry their seducer, because the parents were whacko religious. One never wanted the kid, who was mostly raised by her whacko forced-birth grandparents. She became a criminal at an early age, and is in jail as an adult. The other kid's mom escaped the religious environment, and he is fine but his mom is now a trumper, and has strange ideas about "punishing other women" for doing what she did, she is old enough that she was pre-Roe, and she hates that other women had a choice she did not.
Hey Joel Kitchens, how much gatekeeping should a trans person go through to get a surgery that affects their reproductive system? Perhaps it should be the same amount of gatekeeping that a cat has to go through to get spayed or neutered?
I think the full brunt of how fucked up medical gatekeeping is came when my insurance company agreed to cover my bottom surgery before any doctor would even give me a consultation, because they were all afraid I wasn't Truly Trans. I think it's partly because they're all afraid Republicans will imprison them for treating a trans person.
Hey, maybe let's apply that standard to abortion, too. My cat got a super duper abortion (spayed) without even knowing what it was. She certainly didn't need to prove she was raped or file a police report or convince us that she'd die in the next 24 hours. Maybe getting a human abortion should be just as easy.
And, like the veterinarians who don't eat meat, he is free, and indeed welcome, to not have abortions himself.
He's free to tell anyone who wants to listen to him that his experience leads him to believe that abortions are wrong. What he should not be free to do is use his experience as a vet to make laws about someone else's abortion.
I have a friend who is strongly anti abortion. She was offered a promotion in her job as a public health nurse, to counsel patients on reproductive issues. Because that would have included counselling on abortion, she did not take the job. That's what people who understand the difference between "me" and "not me" do - they make choices for themselves that reflect their own values, but do not impose those choices on others.
"They cannot legally beat them, they cannot legally molest them" In Tennessee? Are you sure?
Rethugs are terrified that their forced-birth 2022 jubilee will result in a blue wave come November, and it damn well should. Biden’s campaign must remind all voters that this is what happens when you put the wrong people in power. Without Trump, there would be no Gorsuch, Kegs or Coney. Trump was just found liable by a second jury for lying about having sexually assaulted a woman in a clothing store. In any sane era in American history, this would destroy anyone’s political career. That’s without extortion of another country to gin up dirt on your opponent in exchange for military aid, or refusing to accept the outcome of an election and fomenting an insurrection and attempted coup. But we know reality is becoming increasingly indefinite as we embark on the age of misinformation.
The more the world changes, the screechier the rednecks become.
I have a thought about our friend the veterinarian, Rep. Kitchens. When you take your female dog or cat to be spayed, there is an upcharge if the animal turns out to already be pregnant. You still go home with a spayed pet, no pups or kittens. Are there vets who won’t perform this service? Because it’s puppy abortion? Has Dr. Joel Science Kitchen snuffed out the lives of adorable kiddens?
A progressive instagram account I follow made a post about “pregnancy crisis” clinics getting federal funding to talk women out of getting abortions. I unwisely posted a comment about how the cruelty is the point, and some fucking troll responded thusly: “you really should invite a group of these people for a coffee and go visit their clinic to see their heart. I think you may come to a different conclusion.” My response: “ In my experience, these conversations all come back to, "if she didn't want a baby, she should have kept her legs closed," and thus the baby will be punishment for her "slutty" behavior. Never mind the kind of life the child is entering into, or whether the woman is emotionally prepared for a child, or financially capable of raising a child. With these groups, it's always about punishing the woman and never about the welfare of the child. Every single time.” Then he deleted his comment. These fuckers really do believe their own bullshit.
Tell him they are lying liars, who have no medical training, and they are harming women, not helping.
I saw a bus the other day from a crisis pregnancy center. It was wrapped in forced birth propaganda, including “abortion pill reversal.” I hope they were alarmed by the middle-aged lady blaring her horn and flipping them off as she accelerated past them.
bless you. i used to do this back in the day when - even in chicago - there were random wingnuts protesting.
loved it.
Bad enough - more than bad enough - that these petrified fossils with petrified brains assume a right to control women's bodies based on a collection of myths and legends that were handed down word-of-mouth for centuries in the Bronze Age before anybody wrote them down. It almost becomes more infuriating when they make it clear that they don't even KNOW the sources they're citing.
Hundred to one that Sarah and Elizabeth didn't conceive at those advanced ages, or - considering when they lived, if they did really live - even REACH those advanced ages. As for Mary, the prophecy of the Messiah in the Book of Isaiah conventionally translated into English as " ... a virgin shall conceive ... " doesn't say that in the original source. It says " ... an almah shall conceive and bear a son ... " and "almah" means "a young woman." Not specifically a virgin. It also says, "She shall call his name Immanuel", and Mary didn't.
As for Jezebel, she may have had a dude murdered when he refused to sell her his vineyard, but that wasn't her real crime. Her real crime, and the reason she got all the bad press, was for being a foreign woman who worshipped different gods. David committed murder too, by sending Uriah the Hittite to the front lines to get killed, with a letter for the general that said, "Make sure he doesn't come back." He also worked as a mercenary for a Philistine king, an enemy of Israel, in his days as an outlaw with Saul demanding his head. He still ended up with all the good press.
It would be so nice if these prats just stopped wasting everybody's time with, "The Bible says so."
And don't get me started about the victim-blaming about Lot the child molester.
Anyway, the point of Sarah and Elizabeth's pregnancies is that they were miracles. They were meant to be regarded as something that only happened because god made a point of having them happen to these specific women. So even within the world of the Bible, even if you believe all of this, their point doesn't make the argument they think it makes. .
They know damn well it takes longer than nine months in the courts to get a rape conviction. Dirt bags.
pro-life, my ex-catholic ass. these assholes are pro-rape.
And Pro Incest.
The cruelty, as always, continues to be the point.
My wife: You killed it last with the movie. Do that more often.
Dang. If I knew it was that easy.....
Too many kooks in the Kitchens, it had to be said.
I have one question for Rep. Joel "abortion is not healthcare" Kitchens. As a veterinarian are legally allowed to practice medicine on humans? STFU, asshole.
𝑾𝒆 𝒖𝒏𝒅𝒆𝒓𝒔𝒕𝒂𝒏𝒅, 𝒂𝒔 𝒂 𝒑𝒆𝒐𝒑𝒍𝒆, 𝒊𝒏 𝒑𝒓𝒂𝒄𝒕𝒊𝒄𝒂𝒍𝒍𝒚 𝒆𝒗𝒆𝒓𝒚 𝒐𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓 𝒄𝒐𝒏𝒕𝒆𝒙𝒕, 𝒕𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒑𝒂𝒓𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒔 𝒂𝒓𝒆 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒈𝒊𝒗𝒆𝒏 𝒇𝒖𝒍𝒍 𝒓𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕𝒔 𝒕𝒐 𝒅𝒐 𝒘𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒚 𝒘𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒊𝒓 𝒄𝒉𝒊𝒍𝒅𝒓𝒆𝒏’𝒔 𝒃𝒐𝒅𝒊𝒆𝒔.
Conservatives 𝘢𝘣𝘴𝘰𝘭𝘶𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘰 𝘯𝘰𝘵 understand this.
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winnah!
Yes, this. And I think that is at the root, for some of them, of their weird control, power, and punishment issues. They were raised to conform, not rebel, keep their mouths shut, and be grateful for being "disciplined". And now they are adults, and have to justify the pain they endured as children by inflicting it on others. It's a very fucked up world view, and self perpetuating. The homeschooling movement is just making it worse - used to be, kids were exposed at school to other ways of looking at the world. Now they can make sure their kids get all the humanity crushed out of them before adulthood, without those kids ever learning that there are other ways to live.
WaPo did a heart-breaking article on a homeschooled couple who had a very bright daughter so she wanted to go to a real school (public school). when she statrted bring homework home, they couldn't help her because they didn't know any of the subjects!
https://dianeravitch.net/2023/06/02/washington-post-home-schoolers-who-sent-their-children-to-public-school/
Two of my nieces were homeschooled back in the day - parents were back to the land hippies, sorta. (still are). One of them decided to go to high school in their tiny little isolated town. She's bright, she was very well read, and did well enough that some of her teachers encouraged her to enrol in a big eastern university.
Where she spectacularly crashed and burned. She had huge gaps in her knowledge of things that neither she nor her parents had been interested in, so she was just never taught. Didn't even know they existed, for some things.
How sad. I picture that being the case with many homeschooled, and the religious schools, too, with the exception of the Catholic schools, because the Jesuits who are usually the instructors are vey well educated. (at least that is what I have read.)