208 Comments

#MeToo was a cosmic shift, a long-overdue one, and HW was proof that time was up. #MeToo cast a wide net, and while many, many bad actors were exposed, faced career and other consequences or even prosecution, a few people were lumped-in and vilified for lesser offenses and distasteful behavior. Al Franken comes to mind. But the moment was enormous, and many victims found they had a voice when that seemed impossible before. This 4-3 ruling only overturns one of his disturbing, horrifying convictions based on judicial error, not because Harvey is innocent. If the victims are intent on having him retried, and it’s what they want, I hope the prosecution retries him. Because the trolls and rape apologists will no doubt celebrate this as a win for (terrible) “men,” when it’s nothing of the sort. Incidentally, I turned on the tv tonight and a rerun of Conan O’Brien was on from 5 or so years ago with some “comedian” who was fed up with #MeToo. He “joked” that we shouldn’t believe all women, that’s crazy. He offered “how about 87%? I’ll give you that.” He said there are some who key your car or stalk you and lie about everything. He longed for the days of “due process” when you needed more than accusations. I’m no fan of false accusations (who is?), which unfortunately do happen occasionally. But it was weird timing that this rerun was on after the Weinstein ruling.

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This case got tried. Sometimes, due process upsets those of us who are on the sidelines, and in this case the victims have every right to be very aggrieved by that process.

Still, it is, indeed, good news that Weinstein is not getting out of prison.

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Ta, Robyn. The last time I was called for jury duty it was for Weinstein's NY trial. There were hundreds of us in the jury pool. At one point, I was no more than 12 feet away from that rapist. A number of people were excused right away because of their professional dealings with the accused. The rest of us got a LONG questionnaire. I knew I'd be dismissed when I answered it honestly, and I was.

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Well said, Robyn.

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Seconded!

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If he still has a 16 year sentence then trying him again would be counterproductive - he'd get to wear a suit and sit in court instead of prison. I'd say refile the charges then hold the case on pause.

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There are speedy trial requirements that probably militate against that plan, I'm afraid.

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Have you read about how prisoners get transported? It's pretty miserable.

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But what if the courtroom was freezing? Would that make him suffer enough?

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I can see that angle, but since he's already doing time, I say: let everyone be reminded of exactly who this guy is. A suit is unlikely to change anyone's mind.

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1. Hard cases make bad law. 2. This is the principle that blocks DAs, when your cousin Jimmy is tried for selling drugs, from dragging in everyone he ever got high with to testify about it. 3. Former public defender here. 4. Hard cases make bad law.

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Yeah, going back almost half a century to when I learned the rules of evidence, it's a fine line between "this is how he did it to me and she's saying the same thing so he must be guilty this time, too" and "he testified he never did it that way to her, and he did it exactly that way to me, so you have to think he's lying, but you can only use the similarity to disbelieve what he said, not to positively prove it happened that way in the case before you." Those are tough distinctions for lawyers and judges to understand. Expecting jurors or the general public to understand them, let alone (in the case of the jurors) apply them, is quite near impossible.

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Is it time to revisit the story about how a certain executive editor at the National Enquirer was also a good friend of Harvey W?

I understand that same guy is currently busy spilling his guts about another good friend embroiled in a court case. Something, something "catch and kill stories".

BTW- Harvey also had good friends at N (fucking) B (fucking) C! National Enquirer wasn't the only news source killing stories.

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Oddly enough I thought about Bill Cosby recently. Anyone know anything?

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The pervy old asshole walks free. Served three years and was released on a technicality. Lost a civil suit in 2022 for $500,000.

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I grew up in a household in the 1960s where the entire 'law library' was a collection of *Readers Digest*.

I grew up thinking the legal system was skewed towards criminals being released back to the streets because of a pervasive desire by the court system to rigorously enforce something called 'technicalities'. RD never went into too much detail of what these odious 'technicalities' might be. But people read *Readers Digest* for the CONDENSED version of things! Besides who has the time to learn about "Bills of Rights" and "Constitution" and "Due Process" etc. ? That stuff is HARD!

STILL, if Harvey gets to skate on something as abstruse as "improper evidence" I can hardly wait for our RWNJ brethren to start whining about Harvey's access to 'technicalities'! Should be fun!

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See also: almost every cop movie/TV show during the '70s.

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And how the Soviet Union was running the entire planet outside of the USA. But we did learn about Joe's body, so all good.

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And how laughter is the best medicine.

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Fuck Harvey Weinstein and every rich, entitled rape apologist asshole. Also FUCK the NY appeals court, and while I'm at it FUUUUUUUCK the United States supreme (ly disappointing) court and their quest to install Donald FUCKING Trump as dictator for life. It's my fucking birthday today, I am so pissed that there are so many things to be pissed about today.

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Happy Birthday! Yes there is always things to be pissed about. The entire justice system has failed this country for years. We are now only seeing it because it's been brought to the forefront due to the extreme criminality of the right.

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fuck it. you're still upright and taking nourishment, for which we should all be happy!

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Thanks Gammarae. You're right. A little perspective is in order. I'm just frustrated is all. It feels too helpless to have to watch these crooks while they weasel around the edges just looking for ways to cheat out a win. And the refs helping them doesn't make me feel any better.

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I’d blame this one on the trial court and the prosecutors. I think they could have gotten convictions without this evidence, and proffering it (prosecutors) and allowing it in over well-reasoned objections (judge) jeopardized (as we now can see) the validity of the convictions. Of course they can retry and win again, but at what (unnecessary IMO) expense to the taxpayers and trauma to the victims, not to mention the delay in getting justice?

@Tamsie’s post above is correct and in line with my experience representing criminal defendants. “Prior Bad Act” evidence, for whatever probative value it might have in terms of “common plan, motive, or scheme or intent,” is extremely prejudicial and-if not verified by prior prosecution and conviction- naturally something which should be viewed with healthy skepticism with regard to its veracity.

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it is beyond frustrating to read these things, and to have experienced 4 years of a terrible presidency, and then to have to continue to hear his stupid voice every single day and watch bad guys get slack all the time, without a break--i hear ya, babe.

but partay anyway!

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I'll try to do just that. 🎈🎂 Thank you.

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He's still in jail you say? He's going to die there? Good!

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On the other hand, being sick with what prisons do in place of medical care is something I would not wish on even such evil people as him.

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Ooh I had the displeasure of meeting someone recently with a dizzying number of overprivileged white guy opinions, which are facts, obviously.

For example, his thoughts on MeToo and why it has jumped the shark: he's all for being less rapey as a society and not glorifying old traditions that seem cute or funny now but were old-timey rape. That was a pleasant surprise. Oh, but there was more to be said, of course. When our precious fuck-your-feelings free-speecher type saw "Fuck all men!" scrawled in bad handwriting on a bathroom wall in one of the weirdest cities in the US of god's great A, well, that was just too much. MeToo had gone too far.

Wonks, my brain melted as I listened to a lengthy presentation about Not All Men™. You've heard it beofre and you'll probably hear it again, right?

As not-a-man, I can't really express how traumatizing it must have been to read that message on a bathroom wall. But I can say that if I saw "Fuck all white women" or "Fuck all skinny bitches" in the restroom of a shop in Portland, an even weirder city (fight me), I would just shrug and move on with my life. Yes, I'm a white lady. Yes, I'm a skinny bitch. And yet, those sentiments just don't inspire me to cancel my support of racial justice or body positivity movements. Because you know what? A lot of white women are guilty of doing a lot of shitty things. I do shitty things too! Maybe I was rude on the road (frequently) and was the last straw and helped inspire that commentary in a bathroom. Perhaps I complained too loudly about a particular garment not fitting this stickbug body and a curvy lady nearby was over. my. shit.

Can a person not express frustration with a group of people who've offended them or treated them poorly? Is one person's bad day, expressed with a sharpie on a bathroom wall, the reason to stop caring about systemic issues that need to be addressed?

Anyway, those of you who are anti-SA, just know that you lost a valuable ally when an individual used a sharpie to express their feelings about men one day. Good luck with your recruiting efforts now that captain hero has left the team.

Also, I think if the author of "Fuck all men" had met this guy and heard 30 seconds worth of his opinions, they would have added "and you too, especially and specifically, you entitled rich white privileged straight rainbow-phobic overeducated ignoramus asshole." Or, #YouToo for short.

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righteous comment!

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Gee, I'd have thought "Well! Maybe today is my lucky day!"

I guess you only take it as offensive if you are pretty sure that it was aimed at your gross behavior.

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It is a big task to take on. Each one has a different smell and shape and ugh, sometimes being overstimulated by the sensory stuff really gets in the way of spreading love far and wide.

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I forgot to add an upvote for #YouToo.

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What a fucking snowflake. He is looking for reasons to excuse his shitty behaviors. If someone says something as a blanket statement I look at it and if it doesn't ring true with me I move on. If it hits a nerve then there is something there I need to look inside for. If I need to rethink my position I do so but don't make it everyone else's business bitching and complaining about.

This dude needs to grow the fuck up and grow a set.

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As a guy, if I read 'Fuck all Men' in a bathroom stall, I know exactly who and what they mean and that it ain't me...And like you say, just move on...

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Sounds like he needs to get his emotions in check!

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I regret not waving toward the couch and suggesting he faint in that general direction. I was too busy being bitchy about other things to use my snark powers on that lost cause.

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See? You’re part of the problem!

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for him, though, history has not been a story of having to experience something, process it, and move on because what else can you do. so of course he's going to yell "pogrom!" (oh, you didn't say his name was tom cotton? well, whatever).

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It's not fair! Someone hurt his fee fees!

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Thin skinned and fragile white male egos must be handled with the utmost care, as any slight, however minor, may damage them irretrievably. 🙄

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It's just such a boring thing to get all het up about.

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Holy shit, try being a woman and existing online. We eat insults like that for fucking breakfast, and chase it down with a nice tall glass of misogyny every day. Man up, snow prince. Lol

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IKR and then told we're a hysterical feminazi.

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We're just so emotional, ya know? 😂

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"Yes, I'm a white lady. Yes, I'm a skinny bitch. "

Are you single and looking??

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Oh jeez. Based on that short autobiographical description, I might not have many teeth left, and I might have a bit of a recreational habit that got out of control, but that might make me more inclined to be open to new friends who want to fund my, um, habit in exchange for some transactional affection.

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And as long as you're cool with the vestigial tail LETS ROCK!

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Ya know, if my husband read the statement "Fuck All Men" his reaction would be, "Well who can blame these women". He certainly knows how to behave himself and be respectful.

This guys sounds like a mansplaining arsehole.

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His photo would be perfect for the mansplaining dictionary entry.

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WTF is wrong with NY Appeals Court?

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Strong commitment to due process, fair trials, etc, no matter what scumbag may get a benefit from said commitment?

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That's one way to look at it I guess. Another more obvious way is seeing wealthy and well connected people getting preferential treatment due to their wealth and connections.

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Both, after all, are real things that happen.

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Oh without question there is and always has been a “How much justice can you afford?” lietmotif in our system of justice since inception and throughout its English predecessor as well, but public defenders like @Tamsie, above, do the best they can to mitigate that inherent unfairness, and I have a feeling @Tamsie is pretty fucking good at it.

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All props to the PDs. Heroic work for little reward.

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Okay, dear friends and confidants, after some back and forth with Our Man In Redneckistan way below, Imma tell my story.

I was anally raped by the recovery room attendant after my umbilical hernia repair surgery in 2004. I woke up in severe pain laying on my side with my ass hanging off the gurney. I called for pain meds and this jerk comes over and starts wiping my ass with a towel and bitching about "look what a mess you've made." He shoves me back onto the gurney and onto my back and leaves the room without giving me any pain meds. Other nurses come in a little later, give me a pain pill and put me in a wheelchair and deliver me to the car to go home. I'm so fucked up that I kind of forget about it all until a couple of months later when my anus grows a huge crop of warts, which are both painful to have and extra painful to treat. My doctor seemed to think I had most likely had anal sex and was a bit skeptical when I said I was not gay, bi or even curious. The hospital disavowed anyone of that description ever working in that capacity (he may have just been some rando that wandered in for all I know). I should have hired a lawyer,,,

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OMFG I am so, so sorry. This is what nightmares are made of. I wish there was something you could do. I hope you find your way through it in whatever path that takes.

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Thank you. LOL all the issues since have pushed that way back! I dithered a long time about whether to share the story beyond a few close friends who I told contemporaneously. Thought I'd just tell it to support "me too".

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I understand and glad you have the courage and able to trust others with your story. I hope it encourages more women to share their's knowing they are not alone. I really do fucking hate this for all women.

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I've always loved the company of women. I somehow determined early on that women are people just like men and probably quite superior in many ways. I've overcome the juvenile objectifying. I try to treat everyone I meet as if they are deserving of my respect. Some people are not and I do my best to just avoid them once that becomes clear. It's served me well.

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Oh my goodness I am so sorry that happened to you. I'm sure that it's not a terribly uncommon thing to happen in that kind of setting when people are vulnerable like that. I hope that you have been able to find your peace with it. Big hugs 🤗❤️🤗❤️

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Thank you blue. See my response to Alpaca Suitcase below.

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OMG! That is awful. I am truly sorry for your trauma and pain. Big hug for support.

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Thank you Sherry. I wouldn't wish it on anyone except a *rump or their sycophants.

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That is horrific. I'm sure you are not alone. There are other cases where hospitals have been grossly negligent, and sometimes doctors and anesthesiologist are found to be the perpetrators. Thank you for sharing your story, and take care of yourself.

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Thank you. As things go, I have way bigger issues now than something that happened 20 years ago. I largely think I've made my peace with that and accepted that it happened and there's nothing I can do about it now. I just got scheduled yesterday to have my first knee replacement surgery in June, and the other will probably be in late July or early August. Just looking forward to being able to walk my dogs again. Life goes on and I'm about to make a huge improvement in mine. Looking forward, not back. ETA: If in a few years I come down with anal cancer I'm sure the old anger will flare again.

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Good for you. My abuser is long since dead, so no satisfaction there either. I just try to be grateful for what I have. Good luck with the knees, my husband's got them and is mostly happy.

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On I am so sorry. that is horrific.

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Thanks Friend.

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Hmmm. Could we trade Weinstein for a couple of grizzlies????

https://apple.news/AcMK5e08ERDCS_CaQOGVQNA

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TOTAL EXONERATION!

OK, not so much...

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Your sentence was overturned. Now get back to your cage and eat your spread.

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