Wise. We don't have much to say about this video clip of young 9-year-old Zianna Oliphant speaking before the city council in Charlotte, North Carolina, one week after Charlotte police shot and killed a black man named Keith Scott. That came not long after Tulsa officer Betty Shelby
Well, you could ask me questions rather than jump down my throat. I am not equating all black people with a few rappers.
But since I have your attention:
When NPR had a show on called News & Notes the host Farai Chideya had a round table discussion on during the 2008 election titled "Is Barack Obama Black Enough?" She also interviewed Russell Simmons the next year and he wanted to talk about yoga, being a vegan, rainbows, butterflies, etc. When the conversation turned toward misogyny and violence in rap lyrics he threatened to bolt the interview. She didn't challenge him and they went on to talk about strawberries, marshmallows and pixie dust.
Black culture has a lot of problems. The biggest of all, I think, is the notion of what being black is. I went to a 70% black high school. I was and still am a card-carrying nerd and have always been teased about it. When my black nerdy friends were teased they were "trying to be white". We live in a world where Michael Eric Dyson teaches college courses at Ivy league schools about how wonderful Tupac Shakur is and how he was a "ghetto saint". From where I am sitting it seems to me that many black kids out there are taught that being a thug is being "authentically" and being good at math is "selling out". To many blacks, being black is being misanthropic, ostentatious and sociopathic. If you are trying to be the first Black President of the United States then you fall under the scrutiny of both the Tea Party and Farai Chideya as being inauthentic.
If you wanna condemn violence say so. If you wanna condemn bad music say so. I condemn Trump because of the things he has said and tweeted, which should not and are not acceptable in any arena let alone a candidate for the POTUS. Anybody tolerating him or endorsing him are enabling him and feeding his ego, and as the writers and other (non-)commenters at this fine website have more eloquently laid out, equally deserving of scorn and derision. If this attitude makes me a "regressive Liberal" So. Be. It. I'm not insulted.
Seems like yet another dish of "both sides do it", slow-cooked instead of roasted.
As for "excusing Puff Daddy types" your interpretation not mine. I seem to remember a phrase in some famous book that goes something like "let the man who is without sin cast the first stone" or AM I JUST TILTING AT WINDMILLS??
In the meantime do go clutch your pearls tighter and keep whitesplaining cuz that's what Jesus Would Do, amiright? Your Jesus seems to know better than their Jesus, after all.
(NNB: rap may be a poor excuse for music but it's a hell of a form of art)
So, where do you get this idea that quoting Scripture at me is some sort of ace-in-the-hole? "Daym! I jus tol him!!!" as you punched 'Post as phoenix00' feeling self-satisfied. Speaking of which:
Black atheists like Alix Jules complain that telling another black person that you are an atheist will get you ostracized (even if that other black person is your mother). Here is yet another piece of Black culture that is not only unethical but deleterious. How about this: blacks are as likely to decry homosexuality as Evangelicals.
We could argue that there are a lot of problems with White culture and I'd agree but I think that those problems are more destructive to the other rather than self-destructive.
Clinging to religion as a matter of Black identity, prejudice toward homosexuals and atheists and trying to be "authentically Black" are all self-destructive.
Do you ever wander away from one-size-fits-all philosophical templates and sincerely wrestle with hard questions? I really hope I am wrong about all this but I don't think I am. If you were to show me some data rather than hurl epithets maybe we'd get somewhere. That's what the Evangelicals do! (BTW, I am an atheist).
I guess I am just tilting at windmills, since you seem to know so much about so many aspects of black culture. THIS is where they've done wrong and IF they would just act LIKE THIS and think LIKE THIS and talk LIKE THIS and make music LIKE THIS all their problems would be solved! Snap of the fingers! So easy!
Plus how the hell did we get from "Please don't shoot my parents" to rap music to homosexuality? Oh right that's what patronizing assholes do.
And whoa you're an athiest. I thought I was dealing with Yet Another Fundevanglical, the cross-banging was rather deafening.
Dr. Zoom! I am happy to make your acquaintance but I feel I am in the principal's office. The truth is I have been reading and enjoying Wonkette for years now. I love your stories and writers and I have a soft spot in my heart for your writing.
The last time I caught the notice of a moderator it was David French. He had a page on Patheos called "The French Revolution". I, and many others, took great pleasure questioning his motives and masculinity as he condemned LGBT people and gay marriage in his column. He took down the messaging option from Patheos and I took a little pride in knowing that maybe I contributed to his flight however small. I saw that he was writing on NRO and I tried to follow him but alas, overnight all of my posts were yanked and I could not post again.
I think some of the posters here unfairly painted me as some sort of a racist. I was merely asking questions similar to the ones Sam Harris presented to Ben Afflek or John McWhorter presented to people like Derrek Bell and Al Sharpton when they were also accused of being racists. However, if the purpose of your website is for everyone to post and agree with each other then I will respect your parameters and I will never post again. I will still read Wonkette because I believe that what you do is important even if you do publish a one-sided edit of my posts and present them on "Deleted Comments of the Week".
Just the fact that you think claiming that the opinions of black Americans should somehow be monolithic is a reasonable argument is ample evidence of how clueless you are. Stop trying to explain things to people, you suck at it.
Oh yes, clearly Russell Simmons, Jay-Z, Tupac and Biggie are completely typical examples of every single Black person in America and not just some of the few notorious Black artists a racist can name. Let's just forget about MLK and Sojourner Truth and Harriet Tubman and Emmett Till and the countless numbers of Black community activists and leaders who rose above the oppression of institutionalized white supremacy to fight for positive social change and instead just use rap musicians as the strawman for why certain White people (aka racists) desperately want to minimize and undermine the very real bias in the justice and law enforcement systems that continue to target minorities with excessive violence and unjustified shootings. Let's ignore the fact that hip-hop and rap were born in the streets as a means of artistic protest against the very same bullshit Black people have to put up with today and instead point out that some of the modern rappers who have managed to make it in the primarily white-dominated music industry aren't paragons of virtue in every way, as if that devalues all Black lives by association, while conveniently overlooking open displays of racism and misogyny from equally popular White artists (see - John Mayer's self-described "David Duke cock")And I'm sure that the people who do live in the projects and disenfranchised communities that Tupac and Biggie were raised in would LOVE not to have had to live next door to them either, but thanks to decades of discriminatory housing practices, reduced educational opportunities and legacy of economic disadvantage from institutionalized racism by WHITE governments, they don't get to have the luxury of choice. And while we're at it, let's top off that dog-whistling ignorance salad with the bacon bits of the classic racist "I don't want Black guys dating my daughter because they cannot be trusted around White women and secretly make me insecure about my genitalia' trope.So maybe instead of arguing with people pointing out the racism in your original post and making stupid excuses for saying racist stuff, just admit that you're a racist and focus that energy on trying to be a better human being.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you said. Please don't see me as a bad guy.
Now what I do disagree with is you think I am using Jay-Z, Biggie Smalls and Tupac Shukur as examples of average Black people. The way I see it is that those people are held up as "real" by an unsettling number of Blacks, especially Black boys.
I went to a 70% Black school. As a nerd I tended to make company with the other nerds regardless of their skin color. I was always teased about playing D&D, pirating software and being uninterested in sports. My Black friends were also teased - for "trying to be white".
I posted this somewhere in this thread but I'l post it again. Before Barack Obama became president Verai Chedeah hosted a program on NPR called "News & Notes". There was a question posed to one particular panel: "Is Barack Obama Black Enough?" Now, I believe the next year she interviewed Russel Simmons and he was talking about anything but Death Row Records. When she began to question him about the misogyny and violence in hip-hop he threatened to walk out of the interview. So, she accommodated him by backing off and it turned out to be a lackluster talk.
Exactly what do you think is meant by "being Black enough"? Is that a dog whistle? Maybe there are people in Verai Chedeah's audience that hear it because I don't. If that isn't a dog whistle then I don't know what is!
You may have heard of this kid. If my daughter was old enough I'd hope she'd wind up with someone like him and his race does not matter to me to be honest. If he went to my high school he'd have been accused of "trying to be White" or "not Black enough".
Michael Eric Dyson is a college professor of African-American studies. He teaches one course to presumably rich White kids (formerly UPenn, now at John's Hopkins) about how Tupac Shakur was the archetypal Black man and lionized him as a "ghetto saint". Remember, this is a class of impressionable college teenagers who are being introduced to Black culture by one of the worst ambassadors ever. Do you think they will look forward to working with or hiring them?
Fine. Then go away!
Well, you could ask me questions rather than jump down my throat. I am not equating all black people with a few rappers.
But since I have your attention:
When NPR had a show on called News & Notes the host Farai Chideya had a round table discussion on during the 2008 election titled "Is Barack Obama Black Enough?" She also interviewed Russell Simmons the next year and he wanted to talk about yoga, being a vegan, rainbows, butterflies, etc. When the conversation turned toward misogyny and violence in rap lyrics he threatened to bolt the interview. She didn't challenge him and they went on to talk about strawberries, marshmallows and pixie dust.
Black culture has a lot of problems. The biggest of all, I think, is the notion of what being black is. I went to a 70% black high school. I was and still am a card-carrying nerd and have always been teased about it. When my black nerdy friends were teased they were "trying to be white". We live in a world where Michael Eric Dyson teaches college courses at Ivy league schools about how wonderful Tupac Shakur is and how he was a "ghetto saint". From where I am sitting it seems to me that many black kids out there are taught that being a thug is being "authentically" and being good at math is "selling out". To many blacks, being black is being misanthropic, ostentatious and sociopathic. If you are trying to be the first Black President of the United States then you fall under the scrutiny of both the Tea Party and Farai Chideya as being inauthentic.
If you wanna condemn violence say so. If you wanna condemn bad music say so. I condemn Trump because of the things he has said and tweeted, which should not and are not acceptable in any arena let alone a candidate for the POTUS. Anybody tolerating him or endorsing him are enabling him and feeding his ego, and as the writers and other (non-)commenters at this fine website have more eloquently laid out, equally deserving of scorn and derision. If this attitude makes me a "regressive Liberal" So. Be. It. I'm not insulted.
Seems like yet another dish of "both sides do it", slow-cooked instead of roasted.
As for "excusing Puff Daddy types" your interpretation not mine. I seem to remember a phrase in some famous book that goes something like "let the man who is without sin cast the first stone" or AM I JUST TILTING AT WINDMILLS??
In the meantime do go clutch your pearls tighter and keep whitesplaining cuz that's what Jesus Would Do, amiright? Your Jesus seems to know better than their Jesus, after all.
(NNB: rap may be a poor excuse for music but it's a hell of a form of art)
So, where do you get this idea that quoting Scripture at me is some sort of ace-in-the-hole? "Daym! I jus tol him!!!" as you punched 'Post as phoenix00' feeling self-satisfied. Speaking of which:
Black atheists like Alix Jules complain that telling another black person that you are an atheist will get you ostracized (even if that other black person is your mother). Here is yet another piece of Black culture that is not only unethical but deleterious. How about this: blacks are as likely to decry homosexuality as Evangelicals.
We could argue that there are a lot of problems with White culture and I'd agree but I think that those problems are more destructive to the other rather than self-destructive.
Clinging to religion as a matter of Black identity, prejudice toward homosexuals and atheists and trying to be "authentically Black" are all self-destructive.
Do you ever wander away from one-size-fits-all philosophical templates and sincerely wrestle with hard questions? I really hope I am wrong about all this but I don't think I am. If you were to show me some data rather than hurl epithets maybe we'd get somewhere. That's what the Evangelicals do! (BTW, I am an atheist).
LOL "Since I have your attention." LOL. I don't actually have that much time for stupidity.
You seem very unhappy here. I'm quite happy to show you the door.
-- Dok Zoom, Yr Friendly Neighborhood Comments Moderator
The average dog has more strength of character than an arena full of Trump supporters, I suspect...
Not to mention, there are still sodomy laws on the books in some states...they're totally unconstitutional, but people still get arrested...
I guess I am just tilting at windmills, since you seem to know so much about so many aspects of black culture. THIS is where they've done wrong and IF they would just act LIKE THIS and think LIKE THIS and talk LIKE THIS and make music LIKE THIS all their problems would be solved! Snap of the fingers! So easy!
Plus how the hell did we get from "Please don't shoot my parents" to rap music to homosexuality? Oh right that's what patronizing assholes do.
And whoa you're an athiest. I thought I was dealing with Yet Another Fundevanglical, the cross-banging was rather deafening.
Dr. Zoom! I am happy to make your acquaintance but I feel I am in the principal's office. The truth is I have been reading and enjoying Wonkette for years now. I love your stories and writers and I have a soft spot in my heart for your writing.
The last time I caught the notice of a moderator it was David French. He had a page on Patheos called "The French Revolution". I, and many others, took great pleasure questioning his motives and masculinity as he condemned LGBT people and gay marriage in his column. He took down the messaging option from Patheos and I took a little pride in knowing that maybe I contributed to his flight however small. I saw that he was writing on NRO and I tried to follow him but alas, overnight all of my posts were yanked and I could not post again.
I think some of the posters here unfairly painted me as some sort of a racist. I was merely asking questions similar to the ones Sam Harris presented to Ben Afflek or John McWhorter presented to people like Derrek Bell and Al Sharpton when they were also accused of being racists. However, if the purpose of your website is for everyone to post and agree with each other then I will respect your parameters and I will never post again. I will still read Wonkette because I believe that what you do is important even if you do publish a one-sided edit of my posts and present them on "Deleted Comments of the Week".
But not even David French did that.
You're boring me! I am trying to engage in an honest debate. You are apparently not up to the task.
Oh please, don't be so disingenuous. Go back and read your first post. Ask yourself if you always start "honest debates" like a condescending jerkwad.
Asshole.
Just the fact that you think claiming that the opinions of black Americans should somehow be monolithic is a reasonable argument is ample evidence of how clueless you are. Stop trying to explain things to people, you suck at it.
Oh yes, clearly Russell Simmons, Jay-Z, Tupac and Biggie are completely typical examples of every single Black person in America and not just some of the few notorious Black artists a racist can name. Let's just forget about MLK and Sojourner Truth and Harriet Tubman and Emmett Till and the countless numbers of Black community activists and leaders who rose above the oppression of institutionalized white supremacy to fight for positive social change and instead just use rap musicians as the strawman for why certain White people (aka racists) desperately want to minimize and undermine the very real bias in the justice and law enforcement systems that continue to target minorities with excessive violence and unjustified shootings. Let's ignore the fact that hip-hop and rap were born in the streets as a means of artistic protest against the very same bullshit Black people have to put up with today and instead point out that some of the modern rappers who have managed to make it in the primarily white-dominated music industry aren't paragons of virtue in every way, as if that devalues all Black lives by association, while conveniently overlooking open displays of racism and misogyny from equally popular White artists (see - John Mayer's self-described "David Duke cock")And I'm sure that the people who do live in the projects and disenfranchised communities that Tupac and Biggie were raised in would LOVE not to have had to live next door to them either, but thanks to decades of discriminatory housing practices, reduced educational opportunities and legacy of economic disadvantage from institutionalized racism by WHITE governments, they don't get to have the luxury of choice. And while we're at it, let's top off that dog-whistling ignorance salad with the bacon bits of the classic racist "I don't want Black guys dating my daughter because they cannot be trusted around White women and secretly make me insecure about my genitalia' trope.So maybe instead of arguing with people pointing out the racism in your original post and making stupid excuses for saying racist stuff, just admit that you're a racist and focus that energy on trying to be a better human being.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you said. Please don't see me as a bad guy.
Now what I do disagree with is you think I am using Jay-Z, Biggie Smalls and Tupac Shukur as examples of average Black people. The way I see it is that those people are held up as "real" by an unsettling number of Blacks, especially Black boys.
I went to a 70% Black school. As a nerd I tended to make company with the other nerds regardless of their skin color. I was always teased about playing D&D, pirating software and being uninterested in sports. My Black friends were also teased - for "trying to be white".
I posted this somewhere in this thread but I'l post it again. Before Barack Obama became president Verai Chedeah hosted a program on NPR called "News & Notes". There was a question posed to one particular panel: "Is Barack Obama Black Enough?" Now, I believe the next year she interviewed Russel Simmons and he was talking about anything but Death Row Records. When she began to question him about the misogyny and violence in hip-hop he threatened to walk out of the interview. So, she accommodated him by backing off and it turned out to be a lackluster talk.
Exactly what do you think is meant by "being Black enough"? Is that a dog whistle? Maybe there are people in Verai Chedeah's audience that hear it because I don't. If that isn't a dog whistle then I don't know what is!
You may have heard of this kid. If my daughter was old enough I'd hope she'd wind up with someone like him and his race does not matter to me to be honest. If he went to my high school he'd have been accused of "trying to be White" or "not Black enough".
Michael Eric Dyson is a college professor of African-American studies. He teaches one course to presumably rich White kids (formerly UPenn, now at John's Hopkins) about how Tupac Shakur was the archetypal Black man and lionized him as a "ghetto saint". Remember, this is a class of impressionable college teenagers who are being introduced to Black culture by one of the worst ambassadors ever. Do you think they will look forward to working with or hiring them?
You do realize that racism is about more than just saying one "race" is superior to another, right? Right!