People retire or change jobs and leave all the time.
I retired two years ago, my house tax in Mass is about 6k a year, and I live on a pretty pond in s.e. Massachusetts, an eagle just snagged a fish breakfast a little while ago.
If I need to go to the city I can take the shuttle to the train station and be there in an hour or so.
We have very good hospitals and doctors, schools are excellent, and pretty good services such as trash and plowing or road work. Housing is expensive, that's true, but I'm 45 minutes from Boston or Cape Cod, so except for the occasional get out of town vaycay, I'll be here watching the rich assholes fly overhead to Galt's Gulch
"the rate of people leaving Massachusetts is at its highest point in 30 years."
Does that mean that the people are commuting from New Hampshire now? If so they technically "leave the state" every day after work. The study probably did not bother to distinguish that.
There's one reason and only one reason for the mass working-class migration from Massachusetts, and it's that MA has become too expensive, mostly due to housing costs.
Housing costs in a given state or area become high because housing there is in great demand. One reason for that is that the state or area is seen as a highly desirable place to live: good education and other public services, economic opportunities, or just plain not being an asshole state that you'd, say, have to flee if you or someone in your family needed an abortion.
There are two obvious solutions here:
1) Do something about housing costs, through zoning laws, tax incentives, etc.;
2) Lower the quality of life until people no longer want to live there.
Similar situation here in CA — most of the outflows in the last decade or two have been lower-income people who couldn't afford housing or other living costs. Not millionaires and billionaires fleeing because taxes are too high. In fact, the higher-income people are moving in from elsewhere.
We're trying to do option 1 but unfortunately, it's a not fix-it-overnight type of solution, especially when the problem has been building for the last 40 years or so. The GOP in the state obviously favor option 2, but they are basically irrelevant politically at the state level, fortunately.
I live in MA. Pretty sure we are okay. Our property taxes did go up about 30% - it's a lot of money on a unicorn property that is worth SO MUCH but for which we pay (except in taxes) way less, because the bank owns most of it and that additional value doesn't help us unless we sell and move. I also wonder if they take college students into account? Because we have so many universities and not everyone is going to stay here - it is expensive.
But we pay out the wazoo here. We also have great public schools, parks, theoretically good public transportation (HAHAHAHAHA - MBTA, you suck), etc. We don't have DeSantis destroying our educational systems and we don't have Paxton murdering our women. I'm cool.
And people who earn more than $1M per year aren't really going to miss a little sliver of it. Pretty sure they will still be able to survive...
Also Bay Stater. The taxes are the cost of civilization. Yes it is expensive here but we have a lot to show for it and we're going to have more. People are working on the housing costs issue. Yes people are leaving but people are also coming, because we have all of the biotech. I will only leave here feet first and that includes the wintertime, and yes I have lived other places.
The stock market is going up way more than 4% per year. Those rich folks will be just fine, thank you. I don't think we'll soon see caravans of Escalades with starving afghan hounds strapped to the roof heading south on I95 in search of Randian paradise.
But now I really WANT to see caravans of Escalades with starving afghan hounds strapped to the roof heading south on I95. In search of anything, really.
I learned that MA already has a 5% flat-rate income tax. I'm surprised, since that's regressive as all get-out - - I believe VT's income tax is just a multiple of the Federal levy.
Wee the Stinky Pipples passed just this sort of tax thing to pay for schools here in the Terrible Sand Kingdom of Arizonastan, only to have the lege go and demolish the state income tax system to ensure that no poor Richie Rich would ever have to pay for the peasant's schooling.
Well, in a mixed capitalism that encourages profits, I dunno. You can't give 'em more money to be good and share, appealing to their sense of philanthropy bloats politicians' coffers instead of helping those in need.
Speaking of Massholes, I pulled into the little redneck gas station one day to get some petrol for my tractor. A lady stepped around the gas pump and said, "I just hate what Biden did to the gas prices. We just moved to Elk Creek from Massachusetts, and we can barely afford gas. It costs five dollars just to drive to town and get gas." Then she climbed into her old BMW SUV and headed North. I finished filling up my gas jug, and went inside to get beer and cigarettes.
Me, I commute a total of 10 miles each day on country roads in a Prius, cruising nice and slow unless I have someone behind me. I literally don't notice gas prices.
I've been letting my kid drive my old pickup truck to highschool every day. It's about $5 per day, which feels like a small price to pay for a decent education.
Among other things, it’s just wrong for luxury brands to have SUVs and pickup trucks. As if the owners are going to carpool for soccer games or haul firewood.
This lady had probably hauled firewood in hers. I kinda feel sorry for her, since her vehicle is doomed to being laughed at by every mechanic in a 200 mile radius.
I bought a 1995 740i with 145K on the odometer for $2500 when I sold my Prius to my daughter so she had some wheels. It was fun(ish) to tool around in a luxury vehicle as I didn't really drive much as I worked from home but the damn thing broke about every two months - nothing serious and I'm mechanically minded so I'd break out the tools and get it up and running again. It got tiresome to have to get gas though, and eventually someone approached me at a store and asked if I'd ever thought of selling it, and I sold it to him for what I paid for it.
I went and bought another Prius the next day. Owning a BMW made me realize that anyone spending that much money for a car is obviously way too concerned with what other people think of them, and don't realize what it is that we think about them. I second the above opinion.
That’s what they say about Porsches. It’s a sort of Hollywood code. I’d say the same thing about Lamborghini. An old BMW can be fun. I had a 2002. Drive slow, or so I thought, and syll was speeding without knowing it.
Oh no! A mass migration!
People retire or change jobs and leave all the time.
I retired two years ago, my house tax in Mass is about 6k a year, and I live on a pretty pond in s.e. Massachusetts, an eagle just snagged a fish breakfast a little while ago.
If I need to go to the city I can take the shuttle to the train station and be there in an hour or so.
We have very good hospitals and doctors, schools are excellent, and pretty good services such as trash and plowing or road work. Housing is expensive, that's true, but I'm 45 minutes from Boston or Cape Cod, so except for the occasional get out of town vaycay, I'll be here watching the rich assholes fly overhead to Galt's Gulch
It is so sad that MA chose to throw away money on roads and schools when it could have been a low-tax Edenic utopia like LA or WV
Ta, Dok. I wish NY would follow suit.
Hooray for us MassHoles!
'Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism' We usually just call it Star Trek.
OK, New York and San Francisco, you turn.
"the rate of people leaving Massachusetts is at its highest point in 30 years."
Does that mean that the people are commuting from New Hampshire now? If so they technically "leave the state" every day after work. The study probably did not bother to distinguish that.
Or died/impaired from COVID 19? Fewer workers? Ok r dead ones....?
There's one reason and only one reason for the mass working-class migration from Massachusetts, and it's that MA has become too expensive, mostly due to housing costs.
Housing costs in a given state or area become high because housing there is in great demand. One reason for that is that the state or area is seen as a highly desirable place to live: good education and other public services, economic opportunities, or just plain not being an asshole state that you'd, say, have to flee if you or someone in your family needed an abortion.
There are two obvious solutions here:
1) Do something about housing costs, through zoning laws, tax incentives, etc.;
2) Lower the quality of life until people no longer want to live there.
Conservatives consistently choose option (2).
Similar situation here in CA — most of the outflows in the last decade or two have been lower-income people who couldn't afford housing or other living costs. Not millionaires and billionaires fleeing because taxes are too high. In fact, the higher-income people are moving in from elsewhere.
We're trying to do option 1 but unfortunately, it's a not fix-it-overnight type of solution, especially when the problem has been building for the last 40 years or so. The GOP in the state obviously favor option 2, but they are basically irrelevant politically at the state level, fortunately.
I live in MA. Pretty sure we are okay. Our property taxes did go up about 30% - it's a lot of money on a unicorn property that is worth SO MUCH but for which we pay (except in taxes) way less, because the bank owns most of it and that additional value doesn't help us unless we sell and move. I also wonder if they take college students into account? Because we have so many universities and not everyone is going to stay here - it is expensive.
But we pay out the wazoo here. We also have great public schools, parks, theoretically good public transportation (HAHAHAHAHA - MBTA, you suck), etc. We don't have DeSantis destroying our educational systems and we don't have Paxton murdering our women. I'm cool.
And people who earn more than $1M per year aren't really going to miss a little sliver of it. Pretty sure they will still be able to survive...
Also Bay Stater. The taxes are the cost of civilization. Yes it is expensive here but we have a lot to show for it and we're going to have more. People are working on the housing costs issue. Yes people are leaving but people are also coming, because we have all of the biotech. I will only leave here feet first and that includes the wintertime, and yes I have lived other places.
"MBTA, you suck"
Can confirm.
The stock market is going up way more than 4% per year. Those rich folks will be just fine, thank you. I don't think we'll soon see caravans of Escalades with starving afghan hounds strapped to the roof heading south on I95 in search of Randian paradise.
If only they'd head north instead I might honestly pay to see that
But now I really WANT to see caravans of Escalades with starving afghan hounds strapped to the roof heading south on I95. In search of anything, really.
I want to see them go north!
Other than that -- let's go together and let's have a show
I learned that MA already has a 5% flat-rate income tax. I'm surprised, since that's regressive as all get-out - - I believe VT's income tax is just a multiple of the Federal levy.
Yes, and property taxes too, not as bad as New Jersey but not great either!
Wee the Stinky Pipples passed just this sort of tax thing to pay for schools here in the Terrible Sand Kingdom of Arizonastan, only to have the lege go and demolish the state income tax system to ensure that no poor Richie Rich would ever have to pay for the peasant's schooling.
Look, extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
I'm glad my work travel is almost entirely to Tucson instead of Phoenix.
I'm surprised that that motto isn't on Arizona's license places, along with a portrait of a snarling 1960s-era Barry Goldwater.
As much as I applaud the tax, what can we do to the economy so that fortunes don’t grow that large in the first place?
Estate taxes
We do have those. I'd like to see an annual net-worth tax cutting in at some value higher than my own.
Well, in a mixed capitalism that encourages profits, I dunno. You can't give 'em more money to be good and share, appealing to their sense of philanthropy bloats politicians' coffers instead of helping those in need.
I tend towards the French approach, but then I do always seem to get ahead of myself.
ISWYDT
I'm on a roll...
Wealth taxes.
I'm sorry, I was promised Luxury GAY Space Communism.
I'm going to have to vote for Trump now, I really have no choice, you forced me, I absolutely didn't want to but you left me no choice.
Goddamn it, I knew I forgot something.
Too late, I've joined Moms for Gay Bashing or whatever they're called.
Gay communism - “comrade” takes on a new meaning.
Apparently that's actually Chinese slang ...
. . . Wonkette started putting up cat pics instead of blowups of the wooden block that is Sean Hannity's head.
Speaking of Massholes, I pulled into the little redneck gas station one day to get some petrol for my tractor. A lady stepped around the gas pump and said, "I just hate what Biden did to the gas prices. We just moved to Elk Creek from Massachusetts, and we can barely afford gas. It costs five dollars just to drive to town and get gas." Then she climbed into her old BMW SUV and headed North. I finished filling up my gas jug, and went inside to get beer and cigarettes.
She blames Biden for rising gas prices, but would not dream of crediting him if they dropped.
All she hates is that Teh Blacks have the same rights as she does and some of them even drive BMW SUVS.
Can we get real about this?
Gee, it's really too bad, she's hurting so bad she has to drive a BMW SUV that is 𝘰𝘭𝘥.
Me, I commute a total of 10 miles each day on country roads in a Prius, cruising nice and slow unless I have someone behind me. I literally don't notice gas prices.
I've been letting my kid drive my old pickup truck to highschool every day. It's about $5 per day, which feels like a small price to pay for a decent education.
A Never-Ending Saga.
Maybe she shouldn’t have moved to a place that’s 20 miles from the nearest gas station. Oh well!
Among other things, it’s just wrong for luxury brands to have SUVs and pickup trucks. As if the owners are going to carpool for soccer games or haul firewood.
This lady had probably hauled firewood in hers. I kinda feel sorry for her, since her vehicle is doomed to being laughed at by every mechanic in a 200 mile radius.
Or take the Escalade out in the pasture for a bit of fence repair.
I laugh my ass off when I see them on the damn beach!
She is a idiot.
Beemer driver is code for clueless asshole.
I bought a 1995 740i with 145K on the odometer for $2500 when I sold my Prius to my daughter so she had some wheels. It was fun(ish) to tool around in a luxury vehicle as I didn't really drive much as I worked from home but the damn thing broke about every two months - nothing serious and I'm mechanically minded so I'd break out the tools and get it up and running again. It got tiresome to have to get gas though, and eventually someone approached me at a store and asked if I'd ever thought of selling it, and I sold it to him for what I paid for it.
I went and bought another Prius the next day. Owning a BMW made me realize that anyone spending that much money for a car is obviously way too concerned with what other people think of them, and don't realize what it is that we think about them. I second the above opinion.
That’s what they say about Porsches. It’s a sort of Hollywood code. I’d say the same thing about Lamborghini. An old BMW can be fun. I had a 2002. Drive slow, or so I thought, and syll was speeding without knowing it.
Well, except my daughter, who inherited one. She is neither clueless, nor an asshole.
She needs a "I inherited this car and I am not an asshole" bumper sticker, though inheriting a BMW might still leave a mark.
I'm not terribly fond of my dad, but one thing I can say about the guy is, at least I won't inherit a Beemer.
You want a meaningless job? Install turn signals on BMWs
What’s the difference between a BMW driver and a vacuum cleaner?
The position of the dirtbag
What’s the difference between a BMW driver and a porcupine?
The porcupine has the pricks on the outside.
(The variation I heard)
Q: What's the difference between a BMW and a dog?
A: With a dog, the asshole is on the outside.
It's a bias I can't seem to shake.
Empirical data is stubborn that way.
Dok, that artwork is perfect for a C. J. Cherryh sci-fi paperback...
Don't take jobs from SF illustrators!