Sinn Fein's success is historic! It's funny though, for Americans all news about Northern Ireland is about the Troubles and partition and possible unification. The really great news of the election is that Stormont is back, there is an assembly, devolved government will actually be able to function and start taking care of many, many burning issues for people in NI - health care, infrastructure, etc.
I'd be interested to know how strong the sentiment to remain in the UK has historically run in Northern Ireland, and to what extent it has eroded up to now.
There are regular polls. This is part of the process set forth in the Good Friday agreement. There can be a referendum on unification when polling shows that there it could actually pass (which has not happened yet). Worth calling out that the Good Friday Agreement established - really for the first time - that the future of Northern Ireland is up to the people of Northern Ireland. Before that there was no mechanism for actually considering what the people who live there wanted.
Last time around the Irish Times had good coverage of it with lots of breakdown by various groups of people. You can see the story of changing attitudes in the poll data. I expect that at some point Ireland will be united, but I think it's probably another generation away.
The only reason "Northern Ireland" exists is that the Protestant community in that part of the island was prepared to start a civil war to prevent Irish independence, or at least to stop themselves being included in it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Volunteers). So, er, pretty strong. The reason "Northern Ireland" includes only 6 of the 9 counties of Ulster province is that it was specifically gerrymandered to produce a permanent pro-British majority. This is only becoming ineffective after 100 years.
The big thing which has eroded Unionist sentiment recently is Brexit, which put northern Ireland in an impossible position - the Good Friday Agreement specifies open borders with the Irish republic, but with the UK out of the EU that requires that customs checks happen between Britain and the North, which puts northern Ireland half out of the UK anyway. So Protestants are not so much becoming Sinn Fëin voters, as shifting to centrist parties who want the best deal for northern Ireland no matter which of its neighbours it aligns with.
Right. The big message of this election is not that reunification is on the horizon, but that public services have collapsed while the government has been in disarray, Brexit is a huge factor in this (causing DUP to not participate in govt), and people want things to work well and vote accordingly with much less of the strict unionist/republican hard dividing lines of the past.
A few small corrections. The First Minister hasn’t always been from the DUP; just after he Good Friday Agreement the UUP, who supported the GFA, were the largest Unionist party (the DUP opposed the GFA). Also, the First Minister isn’t the highest position in Stormont; the First Minister and Deputy First Minister have exactly the same power. A Sinn Féin First Minister is a powerful symbol, but it’s still just a symbol.
Ireland will be reunited because the Republic of Ireland is no longer a Catholic country. Many reasons for that, but the abuses of the Church played a big role. Also, once the English were kicked out, the Church was no longer needed to focus Irish nationalism. Sinead O'Connor had it right. Next up: Scotland, Wales and Cornwall to join Ireland and form the Celtic Union.
This is a huge piece of this. I had interesting discussions with progressive friends about this in the 80s - today Ireland is a modern country, when the Troubles started, it was not and it was totally reasonable that non-Catholics would not want to be part of it. Plus, the basket case economy for most of its history that led to population decline because young Irish people left in droves to find work - with the UK (including Northern Ireland) as a major destination. Ireland's entry into the EU, overall modernization, and the scandals that moved the church from it position of power in the society are huge changes, plus a generation in NI that's grown up post-Troubles.
No. Wales voted for Brexit and barely voted to have their own legislature. Wales is barely a country at all, as there are more links between the northern and southern parts of Wales and England than with each other.
I haven't donated in a while, I'm sorry, I'm working on it. I just wanted to say Robyn wrote a spot-on and perfect assertion of what's going on in Stormont (now that they are returning back to work). I listen to BBC Radio 4 every day, I read The Guardian, some French-language papers, (you know, like their websites), watch France "vingt-quatre", et cetera. Robyn has worded a succinct report of what's going on so well that I recognized the exact terminology I've been hearing for, let's admit it, the past two years. And that scene from TNG has been going around on Reddit, perfect man. This was a super awesome post.
I have longed for this always. It seemed crazy not to have the totality of the Irish together. Let the complete dismantling of the British Empire be done in my lifetime.
Sinn Fein's success is historic! It's funny though, for Americans all news about Northern Ireland is about the Troubles and partition and possible unification. The really great news of the election is that Stormont is back, there is an assembly, devolved government will actually be able to function and start taking care of many, many burning issues for people in NI - health care, infrastructure, etc.
As someone who shares both a first and last name with a well-known casualty of the Troubles... GOOD. This is Nice Times!!
A united and unified Ireland is long overdue. Ta, Robyn.
I wish my dear old mater had lived to see this day.
The British have abused these people for to long.
Now I'm going to have to rewatch the finale of Derry Girls and have another good cry...
what do Bono and the Belfast Cowboy have to say about all this?
Inquiring minds need to know!!
Ulster is one of the last vestiges of the British empire. All they will have left is Gibraltar and the Falklands. Sad!
Tristan Da Cunha libelz.
I'd be interested to know how strong the sentiment to remain in the UK has historically run in Northern Ireland, and to what extent it has eroded up to now.
There are regular polls. This is part of the process set forth in the Good Friday agreement. There can be a referendum on unification when polling shows that there it could actually pass (which has not happened yet). Worth calling out that the Good Friday Agreement established - really for the first time - that the future of Northern Ireland is up to the people of Northern Ireland. Before that there was no mechanism for actually considering what the people who live there wanted.
Last time around the Irish Times had good coverage of it with lots of breakdown by various groups of people. You can see the story of changing attitudes in the poll data. I expect that at some point Ireland will be united, but I think it's probably another generation away.
(Irish, family mostly in the north)
The only reason "Northern Ireland" exists is that the Protestant community in that part of the island was prepared to start a civil war to prevent Irish independence, or at least to stop themselves being included in it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Volunteers). So, er, pretty strong. The reason "Northern Ireland" includes only 6 of the 9 counties of Ulster province is that it was specifically gerrymandered to produce a permanent pro-British majority. This is only becoming ineffective after 100 years.
The big thing which has eroded Unionist sentiment recently is Brexit, which put northern Ireland in an impossible position - the Good Friday Agreement specifies open borders with the Irish republic, but with the UK out of the EU that requires that customs checks happen between Britain and the North, which puts northern Ireland half out of the UK anyway. So Protestants are not so much becoming Sinn Fëin voters, as shifting to centrist parties who want the best deal for northern Ireland no matter which of its neighbours it aligns with.
Right. The big message of this election is not that reunification is on the horizon, but that public services have collapsed while the government has been in disarray, Brexit is a huge factor in this (causing DUP to not participate in govt), and people want things to work well and vote accordingly with much less of the strict unionist/republican hard dividing lines of the past.
this can be done......so do it already!!!!
A few small corrections. The First Minister hasn’t always been from the DUP; just after he Good Friday Agreement the UUP, who supported the GFA, were the largest Unionist party (the DUP opposed the GFA). Also, the First Minister isn’t the highest position in Stormont; the First Minister and Deputy First Minister have exactly the same power. A Sinn Féin First Minister is a powerful symbol, but it’s still just a symbol.
Ireland will be reunited because the Republic of Ireland is no longer a Catholic country. Many reasons for that, but the abuses of the Church played a big role. Also, once the English were kicked out, the Church was no longer needed to focus Irish nationalism. Sinead O'Connor had it right. Next up: Scotland, Wales and Cornwall to join Ireland and form the Celtic Union.
This is a huge piece of this. I had interesting discussions with progressive friends about this in the 80s - today Ireland is a modern country, when the Troubles started, it was not and it was totally reasonable that non-Catholics would not want to be part of it. Plus, the basket case economy for most of its history that led to population decline because young Irish people left in droves to find work - with the UK (including Northern Ireland) as a major destination. Ireland's entry into the EU, overall modernization, and the scandals that moved the church from it position of power in the society are huge changes, plus a generation in NI that's grown up post-Troubles.
Sinéad O'Connor was right about fuckin' everything and they only realised it after driving her out of public life
Are the Welsh as disgruntled as the Scots?
No. Wales voted for Brexit and barely voted to have their own legislature. Wales is barely a country at all, as there are more links between the northern and southern parts of Wales and England than with each other.
there could be worser things than that!
I haven't donated in a while, I'm sorry, I'm working on it. I just wanted to say Robyn wrote a spot-on and perfect assertion of what's going on in Stormont (now that they are returning back to work). I listen to BBC Radio 4 every day, I read The Guardian, some French-language papers, (you know, like their websites), watch France "vingt-quatre", et cetera. Robyn has worded a succinct report of what's going on so well that I recognized the exact terminology I've been hearing for, let's admit it, the past two years. And that scene from TNG has been going around on Reddit, perfect man. This was a super awesome post.
I have longed for this always. It seemed crazy not to have the totality of the Irish together. Let the complete dismantling of the British Empire be done in my lifetime.
The Reactionaries did not think Brexit through to the end, did they.
My 1% Irish eyes are smiling...