One hundred fifty years ago today, the American Civil War ended with Robert E. Lee's surrender to Ulysses S. Grant at Appomattox Court House, which wasn't a courthouse but a town named after a court house, and the actual house belonged to Wilmer McLean. This is generally considered a fortunate thing, since "The Surrender At Wilmer's Place" would not look nearly as good on a commemorative print. The relentless romanticizing of the Southern cause -- state's rights, the Old Noble Ways, the Southern Aristocracy, and the Fight for Freedom for people of a certain pale hue -- started well before the war, and the mere fact of Southern defeat did little to slow it. After all, what's more romantic than a Lost Cause? It was a good enough reason for a delusional actor to shoot Abraham Lincoln just a week later, and it was a good enough pile of romantic mush to keep the Lost Cause ideology alive long after the Confederacy and all its leaders and followers were dead and in the ground.
Yes, I agree. I hope you read the entire speech. If not yet, I encourage you and others to please do so. I believe this speech proves the war WAS about slavery and all the ugliness that went with it. What was said proudly and in public in 1861, is still whispered proudly in private conversations in 2015.
And Lincoln wrote in an open letter to Horace Greeley: If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it. … What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union.”
And Northern factories charged the South way too much for needed industrial goods.And there were plenty of racists in the North.And cavalry was a significant factor early in the war and the South had magnificent horsemen. Yes, yes, yes.BUT!! That doesn't change the fact that the entire economy of the South was based on the labor of slaves held under conditions in which they were treated as sub-human.That's why there was a Bleeding Kansas, Missouri Border Wars, the Dred Scott decision.That's why there was a Civil War.
To be clear. No intellectual jiggery Pokery. For starters i m British, and the fuckwits who try and minimise/excuse/ignore slavery are fuckwits. The Stars and Bars should be up there with Nazi Swastikas in the league of flags you shouldn't want to own.
Read what I wrote. Secession was about slavery. There were a number of other complaints, many of them legitimate, that the South had, but the reason they chose to secede was the fear of abolition, something that wasn't really on DCs agenda. The south assumed the because new states were not allowd to be slave states there was a conspiracy to abolish slavery. The states right they chose to go to secede over wasn't actually under threat- the right to keep slaves (which is totally biblical and allowed).
My point was the North didn't go to war to free the Slaves, it won't to war out of political and economic expediency. By seceding the south actually hastened the abolition of slavery, something that had beenleft in US culture and law by the 'founding fathers' who had argued over the matter, with the pro slavers winning.
Or not. I think it would be interesting to see how much of Texas could be seized by the drug cartels that are already the de facto government in large parts of northern Mexico, before Texas could create and equip an army. I suspect that giving Texas its freedom would end up being the equivalent of giving it back to Mexico.
We've been out West a few times, and liked it, especially Montana, Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona. But it seems like they're all becoming as politically nutty as the South.
Some phrases I often heard while growing up down South:"That's not a job for a white man""That's nigger work""I'm free, white, and 21""Not worth a nigger's life"
The poorest white could always comfort himself that at least he was white. He was used by the power structure, mocked by the wealthy, lied to by demagogues, but at least, by God he was white! Very sad history here---very, very sad.
You're welcome to come to California. Our current governor is the heir to the great California legacy laid down by his father and that progressive generation of really great Californians and great Americans and he is working hard with our legislature to preserve and build on that legacy. We need to fix our school system, sort out the water thing and get a handle on some alternative energy technologies, but we will. The climate is warm, the scenery is magnificent, the people are friendly and the politics are progressive. Head up to I 40 and turn left, you can't miss us. Just in case, we'll leave the porch light on.
Had a history professor who had written a book about the war. This was back in the 50's and the publisher wanted to change "Civil War" to "War Between the States". He told them that he would change it, but only to "The Southern Insurrection", and they stopped asking.
Had a southern fellow in my SeaBee Battalion back in the 60's who would go into the head every night and practice getting rid of his southern accent in front of a mirror.
Fear and greed fueled the secessionist movement. It was the aristocracy that supplied the fuel to the ignorant poor of the South. The wealthy, for the most part, left the South for the duration of the War. Only the die hard racists that fell for their own bullshit stayed and fought and were usually high ranking officers, far from the front lines. There were a few zealots who fought with extraordinary courage. They had the most to loose. With newly acquired wealth, the nouveau riche plantation owners needed the slaves to maintain the newly acquired wealth. Of course, there were the plantation owners that were never able to move on to greener fields such international trade or sell the plantation to new comers and invest in industry.
It is the same with the new South; fear and greed is being injected into the social fabric of the South by the radical Tea Puppets fueled by the wealthy. Fear and greed is sustained by refuting the truth of science and history by altering the text books and only watching fear mongering Fox Noise. It is the equivolent of the intire South firmly covering their ears and loudly chanting La!, La!, La!, La!,...It is hopeless in trying to reason with these idiots...especially in Texas(excluding Bexar and Travis counties).
The point is that the poor ignorant whites are being used by the wealthy AGAIN! and it is the poor white southerners that suffer but it is at the expense of the Union as a whole. And now the wealthy have refined their evil and have become even more powerful in their influence of the poor white Southerner.
Ohio, Indiana, and other states are showing their depression era roots to the KKK.
Read up on the Nueces Massacre. This is the true Southern Noble Ways.
Because the CSA always thought of themselves as the "real" union of sovereign States that Washington and Jefferson (slaveowners) would have wanted. That's why their constitution was copy-and-pasted from the Union constitution. According to them, LIBERALS are traitors to "real" America, the CSA.
I don't know what your comment means chicken thief, please explain.
Yes, I agree. I hope you read the entire speech. If not yet, I encourage you and others to please do so. I believe this speech proves the war WAS about slavery and all the ugliness that went with it. What was said proudly and in public in 1861, is still whispered proudly in private conversations in 2015.
And Lincoln wrote in an open letter to Horace Greeley: If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it. … What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union.”
And Northern factories charged the South way too much for needed industrial goods.And there were plenty of racists in the North.And cavalry was a significant factor early in the war and the South had magnificent horsemen. Yes, yes, yes.BUT!! That doesn't change the fact that the entire economy of the South was based on the labor of slaves held under conditions in which they were treated as sub-human.That's why there was a Bleeding Kansas, Missouri Border Wars, the Dred Scott decision.That's why there was a Civil War.
"This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science."
Yet the GOP in general isn't real fond of recognizing any form of science today, ie climate change, etc.
To be clear. No intellectual jiggery Pokery. For starters i m British, and the fuckwits who try and minimise/excuse/ignore slavery are fuckwits. The Stars and Bars should be up there with Nazi Swastikas in the league of flags you shouldn't want to own.
Read what I wrote. Secession was about slavery. There were a number of other complaints, many of them legitimate, that the South had, but the reason they chose to secede was the fear of abolition, something that wasn't really on DCs agenda. The south assumed the because new states were not allowd to be slave states there was a conspiracy to abolish slavery. The states right they chose to go to secede over wasn't actually under threat- the right to keep slaves (which is totally biblical and allowed).
My point was the North didn't go to war to free the Slaves, it won't to war out of political and economic expediency. By seceding the south actually hastened the abolition of slavery, something that had beenleft in US culture and law by the 'founding fathers' who had argued over the matter, with the pro slavers winning.
Or not. I think it would be interesting to see how much of Texas could be seized by the drug cartels that are already the de facto government in large parts of northern Mexico, before Texas could create and equip an army. I suspect that giving Texas its freedom would end up being the equivalent of giving it back to Mexico.
We've been out West a few times, and liked it, especially Montana, Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona. But it seems like they're all becoming as politically nutty as the South.
Some phrases I often heard while growing up down South:"That's not a job for a white man""That's nigger work""I'm free, white, and 21""Not worth a nigger's life"
The poorest white could always comfort himself that at least he was white. He was used by the power structure, mocked by the wealthy, lied to by demagogues, but at least, by God he was white! Very sad history here---very, very sad.
You're welcome to come to California. Our current governor is the heir to the great California legacy laid down by his father and that progressive generation of really great Californians and great Americans and he is working hard with our legislature to preserve and build on that legacy. We need to fix our school system, sort out the water thing and get a handle on some alternative energy technologies, but we will. The climate is warm, the scenery is magnificent, the people are friendly and the politics are progressive. Head up to I 40 and turn left, you can't miss us. Just in case, we'll leave the porch light on.
Had a history professor who had written a book about the war. This was back in the 50's and the publisher wanted to change "Civil War" to "War Between the States". He told them that he would change it, but only to "The Southern Insurrection", and they stopped asking.
So they don't really know that my great granddaddy was from the south?
Had a southern fellow in my SeaBee Battalion back in the 60's who would go into the head every night and practice getting rid of his southern accent in front of a mirror.
Fear and greed fueled the secessionist movement. It was the aristocracy that supplied the fuel to the ignorant poor of the South. The wealthy, for the most part, left the South for the duration of the War. Only the die hard racists that fell for their own bullshit stayed and fought and were usually high ranking officers, far from the front lines. There were a few zealots who fought with extraordinary courage. They had the most to loose. With newly acquired wealth, the nouveau riche plantation owners needed the slaves to maintain the newly acquired wealth. Of course, there were the plantation owners that were never able to move on to greener fields such international trade or sell the plantation to new comers and invest in industry.
It is the same with the new South; fear and greed is being injected into the social fabric of the South by the radical Tea Puppets fueled by the wealthy. Fear and greed is sustained by refuting the truth of science and history by altering the text books and only watching fear mongering Fox Noise. It is the equivolent of the intire South firmly covering their ears and loudly chanting La!, La!, La!, La!,...It is hopeless in trying to reason with these idiots...especially in Texas(excluding Bexar and Travis counties).
The point is that the poor ignorant whites are being used by the wealthy AGAIN! and it is the poor white southerners that suffer but it is at the expense of the Union as a whole. And now the wealthy have refined their evil and have become even more powerful in their influence of the poor white Southerner.
Ohio, Indiana, and other states are showing their depression era roots to the KKK.
Read up on the Nueces Massacre. This is the true Southern Noble Ways.
I would happily watch to see how it turns out.
Because the CSA always thought of themselves as the "real" union of sovereign States that Washington and Jefferson (slaveowners) would have wanted. That's why their constitution was copy-and-pasted from the Union constitution. According to them, LIBERALS are traitors to "real" America, the CSA.
It's also stupidly inflated. By the end of the war, a bar of soap cost $75 Confederate.