Don't stop thinkin' about the '90s [Added Thursday, Aug. 18: Many readers have had extremely unhappy reactions to this post. Some parts, as it was written hastily, were more sloppy than not. I would like to try to clarify that muddiness, in addition to apologizing to Juanita Broaddrick specifically,
Not to diminish the severity of the crime, but the time for this discussion was back when BILL Clinton was running for/being president. I haven't the slightest bit of doubt that Hillary was clueless at the time, possibly still is—assuming it happened at all. The story does have a ring of truth, and regardless of whether it is or not, it is tragic that someone as obviously intelligent and talented as Hillary had to fall in love with someone as unfaithful as Bill, but she doesn't deserve to be punished for Bill's maybe-crime. Unfortunately, it will probably be history (and his own conscience if it exists) that punishes Bill, not a court of law—just as it did for Jefferson and other rapist presidents, if they existed.
It's not scientific, to be sure, but I do know a heartbreakingly high number of women who have confided in me that they were raped. Not one has ever said her attacker apologized, which I would expect from someone truly sorry for his actions.
Right, it's hard to understand abuse of children. At least some abusive parents will be tormented about it, understand what they're doing is totally unacceptable, and take steps to overcome their behavior. My parents did not do that. The first time I talked with a parent who did want to stop I didn't think straight for days.
ETA: In the 80s-90s there was a national anonymous hotline for abusive parents to call for help and support in the moment. I staffed the line in Cincinnati and Austin. Almost half the calls were from men and women who were thinking about acting out sexually on their offspring.
I dutifully read through this entire thread prior to posting, just to make sure my post wasn't already covered. Also, since this struck a nerve, I had to wait until my hands quit shaking. Well, quit shaking so much.You apparently missed some salient points in the article you linked to about the 13 year-old. Shoutout here to HairstrikeAlpha, because he picked up on some of it, but I have some to add. You believe Ivana because she made her accusation under oath, but how does that differ from the former 13 year-old's statement in the second court filing? (Or even the first, which was dismissed because she filed in pro per and, not being a lawyer, had a technical mishap.) Also, and this is probably the part that makes my blood boil, she was just a 13 year old girl when it happened. Most 13 year-olds sleep with stuffed animals and watch children's shows. According to her testimony, he threatened her life and that of her family if she came forward, and he mentioned a missing 12 year old to emphasize his point. I'm 53 years old and that would probably be enough to shut my mouth. Also, it is germane that the "party" was at the home of Jeffrey Epstein, a Level 3 Sexual Offender. It has taken a great deal of courage for her to come forward now, knowing that the threats to herself and her family still exist, and that most people will doubt her credibility as you do. She comes forward now, not seeking attention, but because she views her attacker as a very dangerous man.I spent 11 long years trapped in Family Court, trying to prevent them from granting sole custody of my young daughter to her father, because when she was 3 she returned from visitation with him with severe genital abrasions. We took her to the Sexual Assault Response Team, but she went into hysterics only after they brought out the video recorder to document the injuries; indicating she was frightened by the equipment, *possibly* because he had filmed her while she was being traumatized. She subsequently revealed that he had also threatened to kill her if she ever spoke about the incident, and slapped her face for emphasis. I mention this because it took 11 years to finally convince someone that I was not simply fabricating accusations to alienate the child from her father, and I lost physical custody and was put on supervised visitation for a year and a half during that time. So blaming the victim and accusing them of leveling false accusations cuts pretty close to the bone. The woman would have to be insane to seek out the the soul-killing skepticism that would be the result of any kind of accusation, even one corroborated as this one is.
sad to say, every woman i have been with had a story of abuse, even my sister was abused by one of my mother's boyfriends. no, fucking means no, not put on more pressure. if she is crying when you're done. you fucked up, and should be (comment deleted) with a fucking pry bar. sorry, but i have no respect for rapists.
Makes sense to me.
Not to diminish the severity of the crime, but the time for this discussion was back when BILL Clinton was running for/being president. I haven't the slightest bit of doubt that Hillary was clueless at the time, possibly still is—assuming it happened at all. The story does have a ring of truth, and regardless of whether it is or not, it is tragic that someone as obviously intelligent and talented as Hillary had to fall in love with someone as unfaithful as Bill, but she doesn't deserve to be punished for Bill's maybe-crime. Unfortunately, it will probably be history (and his own conscience if it exists) that punishes Bill, not a court of law—just as it did for Jefferson and other rapist presidents, if they existed.
Ah! So you met my ex.
She could have stuck to her denial under oath, right? That is, if she didn't have her own axe to grind.
Just off the top of my head, I can't think of one man who has raped, been sorry, and not done it again, without having gone to prison, that is.
Sigh.Men do not rape because they can't find willing partners. See: Cosby, Bill and Ghomeshi, Jian.
Good lord.
How would you know?
It happens all the time in families, including fathers and step-fathers who come close to abusing children but manage to control themselves.
It's not scientific, to be sure, but I do know a heartbreakingly high number of women who have confided in me that they were raped. Not one has ever said her attacker apologized, which I would expect from someone truly sorry for his actions.
I can't think of any public examples either.
Very well done, A!
I don't understand how coming "close to abusing children but manage to control themselves = rape someone, be sorry about it and not do it again.
Right, it's hard to understand abuse of children. At least some abusive parents will be tormented about it, understand what they're doing is totally unacceptable, and take steps to overcome their behavior. My parents did not do that. The first time I talked with a parent who did want to stop I didn't think straight for days.
ETA: In the 80s-90s there was a national anonymous hotline for abusive parents to call for help and support in the moment. I staffed the line in Cincinnati and Austin. Almost half the calls were from men and women who were thinking about acting out sexually on their offspring.
Hey, Rebecca.
I dutifully read through this entire thread prior to posting, just to make sure my post wasn't already covered. Also, since this struck a nerve, I had to wait until my hands quit shaking. Well, quit shaking so much.You apparently missed some salient points in the article you linked to about the 13 year-old. Shoutout here to HairstrikeAlpha, because he picked up on some of it, but I have some to add. You believe Ivana because she made her accusation under oath, but how does that differ from the former 13 year-old's statement in the second court filing? (Or even the first, which was dismissed because she filed in pro per and, not being a lawyer, had a technical mishap.) Also, and this is probably the part that makes my blood boil, she was just a 13 year old girl when it happened. Most 13 year-olds sleep with stuffed animals and watch children's shows. According to her testimony, he threatened her life and that of her family if she came forward, and he mentioned a missing 12 year old to emphasize his point. I'm 53 years old and that would probably be enough to shut my mouth. Also, it is germane that the "party" was at the home of Jeffrey Epstein, a Level 3 Sexual Offender. It has taken a great deal of courage for her to come forward now, knowing that the threats to herself and her family still exist, and that most people will doubt her credibility as you do. She comes forward now, not seeking attention, but because she views her attacker as a very dangerous man.I spent 11 long years trapped in Family Court, trying to prevent them from granting sole custody of my young daughter to her father, because when she was 3 she returned from visitation with him with severe genital abrasions. We took her to the Sexual Assault Response Team, but she went into hysterics only after they brought out the video recorder to document the injuries; indicating she was frightened by the equipment, *possibly* because he had filmed her while she was being traumatized. She subsequently revealed that he had also threatened to kill her if she ever spoke about the incident, and slapped her face for emphasis. I mention this because it took 11 years to finally convince someone that I was not simply fabricating accusations to alienate the child from her father, and I lost physical custody and was put on supervised visitation for a year and a half during that time. So blaming the victim and accusing them of leveling false accusations cuts pretty close to the bone. The woman would have to be insane to seek out the the soul-killing skepticism that would be the result of any kind of accusation, even one corroborated as this one is.
I'm so sorry.
sad to say, every woman i have been with had a story of abuse, even my sister was abused by one of my mother's boyfriends. no, fucking means no, not put on more pressure. if she is crying when you're done. you fucked up, and should be (comment deleted) with a fucking pry bar. sorry, but i have no respect for rapists.