So, different views of history. Other day, I watched an old YouTube vid of Chris Rock interviewing people on the street in his home state of North Carolina about what they think of the Confederate flag. The white people did not say slavery, brutality, rape, burning, lynching, beating, shooting. They said things like pride, family, values. Would have been nice if she'd tossed that in the direction of this POS. Btw, the US is very much #1, which is probably why it's the #1 thing to outlaw. Re #5: snowflakes. Pweez don't make me feew uncumftuhble.
You misrepresent what Lincoln wanted. He was the leader of the antislavery party. He, and the Republicans, did not support ending slavery by force, but once the South started the war, that was the inevitable outcome. The Union Army officer corps was firmly antislavery and had begun freeing slaves long before the Emancipation Proclamation. There was zero chance the war could have ended in 6 months because the South was not going to accept any settlement that foreclosed slavery in the Territories; and the North was not going to accept any settlement that did not include Free Soil.
Don't read back too far. The Southern yeomen let go of the stick to a large degree as the war progressed, deserting in hundreds of thousands because their families were starving. It was Jim Crow that reconciled poor Southern whites to the owner class. Up to the '90s and beyond, Southern populism, sometimes interracial, was a real challenge to the capitalist class. The career of Tom Watson, from populist to race-baiter, is diagnostic.
Hiring labor is hardly benefiting from slavery. If they needed labor, they would have had to pay for free labor, too. The relative poverty of white Southern small farmers compared to Northern small farmers shows how the yeoman class got nothing material from slavery. The Southern smallholder (or tenant) didn't even get schooling for his children, which all Northern smallholders did.
I see the actual problem is with human attitudes. Racism, sexism, religious differences, discrimination against poor people, etc. are attitudes that may not be able to be changed, but people can keep those attitudes to themselves.
I'm not saying people being quiet means people are not racist, but knowing their views are unpopular may shut them up. Just because Rebecca doesn't allow the cxxx word here does not mean people don't think it or use it in their personal lives. There are racist and sexist activities that need to be called out. And laws can ensure equal treatment.
I disagree with your perception "based on the present situation, the trend" is realistic. There are, imo, earth-shaking actions happening. Many Black people are getting gunned down by cops, but those cops are facing consequences. Sexual harassment is a crime.
Oil and gas are being replaced with renewable energy. Prez Biden is working to get health coverage for more people. Formerly deadly diseases can be cured. There are still horrific problems, like homelessness, child abuse, and Republican control of anything, but I see the progress as more powerful than any regression.
In case you didn't notice there is a 50-50 split in the Senate. GEORGIA has 2 Dem senators. That's a trend I support. Progress is often not a straight line up, but the overall trend is up. It will take time, but most things do.
Your attitude is your choice. If you want to be unhappy, I can't stop you. But I'm not joining you in that, either.
Your conclusion that I am unhappy is interesting and unfounded. One is not unhappy with failed experiments; we learn from them.
Nor am I inviting you to join me; I have never been into proselytizing. That I consider the American experiment to be a slow-moving failure is something that time will reveal and I know I don't have much left. You may be around to see how wrong I was. If so, salut!
In my first year of Latin in the 7th grade I learned the sentence "America est patria mea" and I subscribe to that and I still work hard to make it a place for all people. That I feel that sliding away I do not like, but it is how I see things.
I would guess that our differences center on our perceptions of capitalism.
Very little will get accomplished, but you could make a case that that might not be the end of the world. If people were making fewer cars, other people wouldn't have to be going nuts making ads to get people to pay money for them. We could pay attention to what might really need to get done, and otherwise... well, just a pipe dream...
I mean, capitalism does rely heavily on maintaining an underclass. Racism and sexism is just the easiest form to maintain it. But it doesn't give a shit about anyone's genitals, genders, skin color, etc. It's just pure sociopathy where those with power abuse those without to maximize profits by any means necessary.
And the myth of meritocracy helps to maintain white privilege. They get to pretend that they did it all by themselves and somehow all those POC who didn't succeed as well just didn't try as hard.
"schools must stick only to the 'facts,' and present all sides of anything controversial."
It has to be one or the other. It can't be both because for "controversial" subjects, usually only one side is factual. For example, if a biology class presents creationism (rebranded as intelligent design) it violates the principle of sticking to facts.
Alan Tayor (2001) "American Colonies" is still the best book on this... considering the colonial experience in all of what is now the US, including the Russians in Alaska, and the US in Hawai'i.
Partly true.The ordinary white folks in the South got a short stick out of slavery and racism, too. Not as short as the one the slaves got but short enough.
Just to mention health: pellagra, malaria, yellow fever, rotten teeth. All these went along with slavery and Jim Crow and began to recede as Jim Crow began to recede.
Slavery benefited (even if we define benefit as simply money) only a few people, many of them in the North. The sailors on the slave ships did not get rich but they did die like flies. "The Bight of Benin, the Bight of Benin. One comes out where 40 go in."
The small businessmen of the South did not benefit from being surrounded by a labor force that had no money.
She is not going to last as a Republican with reasonable takes like that
So, different views of history. Other day, I watched an old YouTube vid of Chris Rock interviewing people on the street in his home state of North Carolina about what they think of the Confederate flag. The white people did not say slavery, brutality, rape, burning, lynching, beating, shooting. They said things like pride, family, values. Would have been nice if she'd tossed that in the direction of this POS. Btw, the US is very much #1, which is probably why it's the #1 thing to outlaw. Re #5: snowflakes. Pweez don't make me feew uncumftuhble.
You misrepresent what Lincoln wanted. He was the leader of the antislavery party. He, and the Republicans, did not support ending slavery by force, but once the South started the war, that was the inevitable outcome. The Union Army officer corps was firmly antislavery and had begun freeing slaves long before the Emancipation Proclamation. There was zero chance the war could have ended in 6 months because the South was not going to accept any settlement that foreclosed slavery in the Territories; and the North was not going to accept any settlement that did not include Free Soil.
Don't read back too far. The Southern yeomen let go of the stick to a large degree as the war progressed, deserting in hundreds of thousands because their families were starving. It was Jim Crow that reconciled poor Southern whites to the owner class. Up to the '90s and beyond, Southern populism, sometimes interracial, was a real challenge to the capitalist class. The career of Tom Watson, from populist to race-baiter, is diagnostic.
Hiring labor is hardly benefiting from slavery. If they needed labor, they would have had to pay for free labor, too. The relative poverty of white Southern small farmers compared to Northern small farmers shows how the yeoman class got nothing material from slavery. The Southern smallholder (or tenant) didn't even get schooling for his children, which all Northern smallholders did.
I see the actual problem is with human attitudes. Racism, sexism, religious differences, discrimination against poor people, etc. are attitudes that may not be able to be changed, but people can keep those attitudes to themselves.
I'm not saying people being quiet means people are not racist, but knowing their views are unpopular may shut them up. Just because Rebecca doesn't allow the cxxx word here does not mean people don't think it or use it in their personal lives. There are racist and sexist activities that need to be called out. And laws can ensure equal treatment.
I disagree with your perception "based on the present situation, the trend" is realistic. There are, imo, earth-shaking actions happening. Many Black people are getting gunned down by cops, but those cops are facing consequences. Sexual harassment is a crime.
Oil and gas are being replaced with renewable energy. Prez Biden is working to get health coverage for more people. Formerly deadly diseases can be cured. There are still horrific problems, like homelessness, child abuse, and Republican control of anything, but I see the progress as more powerful than any regression.
In case you didn't notice there is a 50-50 split in the Senate. GEORGIA has 2 Dem senators. That's a trend I support. Progress is often not a straight line up, but the overall trend is up. It will take time, but most things do.
Your attitude is your choice. If you want to be unhappy, I can't stop you. But I'm not joining you in that, either.
Your conclusion that I am unhappy is interesting and unfounded. One is not unhappy with failed experiments; we learn from them.
Nor am I inviting you to join me; I have never been into proselytizing. That I consider the American experiment to be a slow-moving failure is something that time will reveal and I know I don't have much left. You may be around to see how wrong I was. If so, salut!
In my first year of Latin in the 7th grade I learned the sentence "America est patria mea" and I subscribe to that and I still work hard to make it a place for all people. That I feel that sliding away I do not like, but it is how I see things.
I would guess that our differences center on our perceptions of capitalism.
My best to you.
Very little will get accomplished, but you could make a case that that might not be the end of the world. If people were making fewer cars, other people wouldn't have to be going nuts making ads to get people to pay money for them. We could pay attention to what might really need to get done, and otherwise... well, just a pipe dream...
I mean, capitalism does rely heavily on maintaining an underclass. Racism and sexism is just the easiest form to maintain it. But it doesn't give a shit about anyone's genitals, genders, skin color, etc. It's just pure sociopathy where those with power abuse those without to maximize profits by any means necessary.
And the myth of meritocracy helps to maintain white privilege. They get to pretend that they did it all by themselves and somehow all those POC who didn't succeed as well just didn't try as hard.
"schools must stick only to the 'facts,' and present all sides of anything controversial."
It has to be one or the other. It can't be both because for "controversial" subjects, usually only one side is factual. For example, if a biology class presents creationism (rebranded as intelligent design) it violates the principle of sticking to facts.
Vey iz mir.
This stuff about people being "made to feel" any given way really wears thin. https://uploads.disquscdn.c...
Alan Tayor (2001) "American Colonies" is still the best book on this... considering the colonial experience in all of what is now the US, including the Russians in Alaska, and the US in Hawai'i.
their version of history is so wrong that it should punch them in the face
I mean... it is about states' rights
but I always ask the next question which is, specifically which right was it?
"well... arglebargle"
slavery... what you are looking for is the right to own human beings as property
"yeah but it could have been any --"
right, but it wasn't, it was to defend the right to own people and the caste system
Partly true.The ordinary white folks in the South got a short stick out of slavery and racism, too. Not as short as the one the slaves got but short enough.
Just to mention health: pellagra, malaria, yellow fever, rotten teeth. All these went along with slavery and Jim Crow and began to recede as Jim Crow began to recede.
Slavery benefited (even if we define benefit as simply money) only a few people, many of them in the North. The sailors on the slave ships did not get rich but they did die like flies. "The Bight of Benin, the Bight of Benin. One comes out where 40 go in."
The small businessmen of the South did not benefit from being surrounded by a labor force that had no money.