America! It was great once, remember? But now it’s not, thanks to Muslim presidents and homosexual marriages. If only there were someone out there with enough boundless self-confidence that he truly believed, in his heart of hearts, that he personally has what it takes to
Abortion is serious business. Your comment is so low and disgraceful. You MUST be a man. You're referring to a dead human not a frankfurter. Have some respect, for G-D's sake.
Satire is all well and good, but abortion is NEVER to be made the subject of humor. You're making the deliberate murder of preborn human children the brunt of sick jokes. All of you who feel it's OK to have such disrespect for human life, should thank G D that your mother thought you "worthy enough" to be born. Shame on you!
It's absolutely, DEFINITELY a miscarriage caused by the procedure. Therefore it's an abortion, for without the special potion administered by the priest, the pregnancy would otherwise continue uninterrupted.
The embryo was never alive. It had no independent life and could not sustain or regulate its own physical processes, primarily because it did not have the actual organs required to sustain those processes.
Per Wikipedia, "Life is a characteristic distinguishing physical entities having biological processes (such as signaling and self-sustaining processes) from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased (death), or because they lack such functions and are classified as inanimate."
The embryo never had such functions and was never alive.
Let's just agree to disagree. I looked on the internet and found many who took both of our sides. You feel it's not life until born. I feel that it a human(not a cow or a fish) who deserves the right to become viable. If a pregnant woman's unborn child is murdered as the result of an attack and she is also killed,, the assailant is charged with TWO counts of homicide. You can't kill "inanimate" objects.
I have certainly always been happy to "agree to disagree" with people who don't think as I do about abortion. If you choose to believe that life begins at conception, yay you. That's your right to believe that and I fully support in that, 100%. I have no issue with people taking that position and shaping their own behavior around it.
However, that all changes when you attempt to impose your choices and beliefs on other people who do not share them. Make your own choices. Other people will make theirs. Unless they ask for your opinion, butt out.
The majority decision in Roe was structured the way it was to give people the widest latitude to act according to their beliefs about when life begins when it IS a matter of belief, with restrictions and limitations being imposed when beliefs gave way to FACTS.
That encapsulates the difference between pro-choice people and anti-choice people today - pro-choice people aren't trying to make belief-based decisions for women. Our position is to give women the facts, ensure they have access to all the available options, and have them make their own decisions. No pro-choicers are trying to force women to have abortions...but every anti-choicer who supports restrictions on (or the outlawing of) abortion is overtly aiming to force women to abide by their beliefs.
By the way, you don't know me or speak for me, so please don't misrepresent what I "feel" - you are just flat-out wrong in your claim of when I "feel" life begins. I notice you didn't ASK, or make any attempt to figure my position out from what I've written in this thread... you just went ahead and attributed the most extreme position you could think of to me - falsely, as it turns out. I do NOT think life begins at birth.
Your misrepresentation of my position is, frankly, as dishonest as your citation of anti-choicer stealth personhood-expansion attempts in support of your anti-choice claim. Pushing the legal definition of personhood as far back in gestation as they can get it, regardless of legal precedent or medical facts or evidence, has long been a strategy of forced-birther groups in a back-door attempt to invalidate abortion rights...and your comment is exactly why they do that.
You are apparently unaware that separate penalties have typically only been assessed after "quickening," based on the harm to the pregnant woman and her partner. Legally, stopping development of a potential life is not the same as ending an actual life, so equal charges were only brought when the fetus was quite near delivery.
Regardless, since the vast majority of abortions are performed before 12 weeks gestation, LONG before viability, your point is actually an emotive but fundamentally meaningless non sequitur.
As to your other non sequitur about an embryo being "human(not a cow or a fish), it seems to me that's just another passive-aggressive misrepresentation of the position taken by those with whom you disagree.
I (and many others) keep trying to make this point, but you folks don't seem to want to hear it - no one is saying that an embryo isn't a human embryo. What we're actually saying is that an embryo isn't a LIVING human yet.
Stages of development matter. You don't hand car keys to a toddler because one day it will be an adult - you wait until that toddler has gone through the process of development and growth that make it an adult. My grandmother has human DNA. Doesn't mean that she hasn't been dead for 25 years. Possession of human DNA is not an indication of, or a guarantor of, life. An embryo may one day BE a living baby...but it's not a living baby yet... hence my original point.
Once you understand those points, so that you can stop misrepresenting the positions of those who disagree with you, then we can truly be said to "agree to disagree."
I am sorry if my comments made you feel like I insulted you, or undermined your intelligence. I DO believe that women have a choice. It is just that so many women do not treat abortion with the right respect. They use it as birth control, instead of using preventative measures beforehand. By making abortions so easy, some don't make as responsible a decision as they would, if on demand accessibility wasn't the case. I understand that abortion IS medically necessary in some cases. But at any stage, and for any reason, human life is being purposely terminated.
I recognize that you're not trying to be insulting, and I really do appreciate it, but I have to point out the implications of one of the things you said.
Essentially, you've just said that you don't trust women to take abortion seriously, that women are too stupid or too feckless to make this decision on our own because we don't treat it with the "right respect." Are you serious? Yet you're perfectly happy to have women raise the resulting children if they go through with a pregnancy, right? Think about the implications of that statement.
I'm really, really hoping that you just didn't recognize the subtext there. By every measure, women DO fully understand the seriousness of abortion... we also fully understand the impact an unwanted pregnancy can have on our lives, health, safety, and well-being now and in the future, the lives of our existing or future children and families, and the lives of any children born from unwanted pregnancies. Frankly, to me, it seems that it's those who oppose abortion who don't take this seriously enough. You really do need to learn to trust women.
And that "abortion as birth control" canard absolutely needs to go away. It's silly. Think about it - it makes zero sense. Abortion is quite expensive, it's uncomfortable, it's not easily available, and it, those who provide it, and the women who choose it have been so demonized in our society that no reasonable, reasonably sane person would consider using it as a birth control method. Most women who get abortions report having used birth control in the month in which they became pregnant, indicating that women see it as a last resort, when other means have failed.
I don't think that you mean ill, and I appreciate that you are engaging in dialogue without the kind of spiteful nastiness I frequently get from people who are opposed to abortion, but I do think that you might want to re-examine some of the standard anti-abortion talking points - they don't make sense when examined reasonably.
Trump never says exactly when amerika was great. Was it when Ronny Raygun was cutting taxes only to realize that was an idiotic move that tripled our deficit or when he illegally sold arms to Iran to fund his illegal war in South America, or when he negotiated the release of the American Hostages from Iran BEFORE he was elected and released on the day he was inaugurated ? Is that when amerika was great ? Or was it when the douche bag GW Bush illegally invaded Iraq and Afganistan and set in motion the chaos we see today in that region ? Is that when amerika was great ? Can't wait until Michael Moore's next film 'Where are we going to invade next?' No wonder most countries hate amerika ! We are the terrorists of the world. We need to build roads bridges etc instead of killing people at weddings a half a world away by drone strikes - thanks democratic obama.
Abortion is serious business. Your comment is so low and disgraceful. You MUST be a man. You're referring to a dead human not a frankfurter. Have some respect, for G-D's sake.
It is not about abortion. If the wife was faithful, her pregancy would continue, if she was unfaithful, she would have a miscarriage.
Satire is all well and good, but abortion is NEVER to be made the subject of humor. You're making the deliberate murder of preborn human children the brunt of sick jokes. All of you who feel it's OK to have such disrespect for human life, should thank G D that your mother thought you "worthy enough" to be born. Shame on you!
You may feel like a winner, but the poor dead baby...That's another story.
Great response
It's absolutely, DEFINITELY a miscarriage caused by the procedure. Therefore it's an abortion, for without the special potion administered by the priest, the pregnancy would otherwise continue uninterrupted.
No Worries. It's all Good! God Approves!
There wasn't a baby...and nothing was dead because the embryo wasn't alive.
Sorry... I know it's not as exciting for you, but that's the facts.
I don't understand. If the embryo, which was alive at one time, is now dead, how could nothing have died? Explain please...
The embryo was never alive. It had no independent life and could not sustain or regulate its own physical processes, primarily because it did not have the actual organs required to sustain those processes.
Per Wikipedia, "Life is a characteristic distinguishing physical entities having biological processes (such as signaling and self-sustaining processes) from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased (death), or because they lack such functions and are classified as inanimate."
The embryo never had such functions and was never alive.
It's not really complicated.
Let's just agree to disagree. I looked on the internet and found many who took both of our sides. You feel it's not life until born. I feel that it a human(not a cow or a fish) who deserves the right to become viable. If a pregnant woman's unborn child is murdered as the result of an attack and she is also killed,, the assailant is charged with TWO counts of homicide. You can't kill "inanimate" objects.
I have certainly always been happy to "agree to disagree" with people who don't think as I do about abortion. If you choose to believe that life begins at conception, yay you. That's your right to believe that and I fully support in that, 100%. I have no issue with people taking that position and shaping their own behavior around it.
However, that all changes when you attempt to impose your choices and beliefs on other people who do not share them. Make your own choices. Other people will make theirs. Unless they ask for your opinion, butt out.
The majority decision in Roe was structured the way it was to give people the widest latitude to act according to their beliefs about when life begins when it IS a matter of belief, with restrictions and limitations being imposed when beliefs gave way to FACTS.
That encapsulates the difference between pro-choice people and anti-choice people today - pro-choice people aren't trying to make belief-based decisions for women. Our position is to give women the facts, ensure they have access to all the available options, and have them make their own decisions. No pro-choicers are trying to force women to have abortions...but every anti-choicer who supports restrictions on (or the outlawing of) abortion is overtly aiming to force women to abide by their beliefs.
By the way, you don't know me or speak for me, so please don't misrepresent what I "feel" - you are just flat-out wrong in your claim of when I "feel" life begins. I notice you didn't ASK, or make any attempt to figure my position out from what I've written in this thread... you just went ahead and attributed the most extreme position you could think of to me - falsely, as it turns out. I do NOT think life begins at birth.
Your misrepresentation of my position is, frankly, as dishonest as your citation of anti-choicer stealth personhood-expansion attempts in support of your anti-choice claim. Pushing the legal definition of personhood as far back in gestation as they can get it, regardless of legal precedent or medical facts or evidence, has long been a strategy of forced-birther groups in a back-door attempt to invalidate abortion rights...and your comment is exactly why they do that.
You are apparently unaware that separate penalties have typically only been assessed after "quickening," based on the harm to the pregnant woman and her partner. Legally, stopping development of a potential life is not the same as ending an actual life, so equal charges were only brought when the fetus was quite near delivery.
Regardless, since the vast majority of abortions are performed before 12 weeks gestation, LONG before viability, your point is actually an emotive but fundamentally meaningless non sequitur.
As to your other non sequitur about an embryo being "human(not a cow or a fish), it seems to me that's just another passive-aggressive misrepresentation of the position taken by those with whom you disagree.
I (and many others) keep trying to make this point, but you folks don't seem to want to hear it - no one is saying that an embryo isn't a human embryo. What we're actually saying is that an embryo isn't a LIVING human yet.
Stages of development matter. You don't hand car keys to a toddler because one day it will be an adult - you wait until that toddler has gone through the process of development and growth that make it an adult. My grandmother has human DNA. Doesn't mean that she hasn't been dead for 25 years. Possession of human DNA is not an indication of, or a guarantor of, life. An embryo may one day BE a living baby...but it's not a living baby yet... hence my original point.
Once you understand those points, so that you can stop misrepresenting the positions of those who disagree with you, then we can truly be said to "agree to disagree."
Thanks.
I am sorry if my comments made you feel like I insulted you, or undermined your intelligence. I DO believe that women have a choice. It is just that so many women do not treat abortion with the right respect. They use it as birth control, instead of using preventative measures beforehand. By making abortions so easy, some don't make as responsible a decision as they would, if on demand accessibility wasn't the case. I understand that abortion IS medically necessary in some cases. But at any stage, and for any reason, human life is being purposely terminated.
I recognize that you're not trying to be insulting, and I really do appreciate it, but I have to point out the implications of one of the things you said.
Essentially, you've just said that you don't trust women to take abortion seriously, that women are too stupid or too feckless to make this decision on our own because we don't treat it with the "right respect." Are you serious? Yet you're perfectly happy to have women raise the resulting children if they go through with a pregnancy, right? Think about the implications of that statement.
I'm really, really hoping that you just didn't recognize the subtext there. By every measure, women DO fully understand the seriousness of abortion... we also fully understand the impact an unwanted pregnancy can have on our lives, health, safety, and well-being now and in the future, the lives of our existing or future children and families, and the lives of any children born from unwanted pregnancies. Frankly, to me, it seems that it's those who oppose abortion who don't take this seriously enough. You really do need to learn to trust women.
And that "abortion as birth control" canard absolutely needs to go away. It's silly. Think about it - it makes zero sense. Abortion is quite expensive, it's uncomfortable, it's not easily available, and it, those who provide it, and the women who choose it have been so demonized in our society that no reasonable, reasonably sane person would consider using it as a birth control method. Most women who get abortions report having used birth control in the month in which they became pregnant, indicating that women see it as a last resort, when other means have failed.
I don't think that you mean ill, and I appreciate that you are engaging in dialogue without the kind of spiteful nastiness I frequently get from people who are opposed to abortion, but I do think that you might want to re-examine some of the standard anti-abortion talking points - they don't make sense when examined reasonably.
How about a celebrity fetus roast, then?
I'm just here for the recipes.
Trump never says exactly when amerika was great. Was it when Ronny Raygun was cutting taxes only to realize that was an idiotic move that tripled our deficit or when he illegally sold arms to Iran to fund his illegal war in South America, or when he negotiated the release of the American Hostages from Iran BEFORE he was elected and released on the day he was inaugurated ? Is that when amerika was great ? Or was it when the douche bag GW Bush illegally invaded Iraq and Afganistan and set in motion the chaos we see today in that region ? Is that when amerika was great ? Can't wait until Michael Moore's next film 'Where are we going to invade next?' No wonder most countries hate amerika ! We are the terrorists of the world. We need to build roads bridges etc instead of killing people at weddings a half a world away by drone strikes - thanks democratic obama.