Thanks so much for sharing. The inspiration for this piece came up while I was interviewing women for my book and I can't tell you how frequently I heard similar stories (and I've heard many more in response to this piece too). If it wasn't men lashing out at them for owning their own homes, it was men lashing out when women outearned them or had a major professional wins or opportunities. I wound up digging into the research and finding it wasn't just anecdotal but statistically significant. So much so that I dedicated a whole chapter of my new book "The Ambition Penalty" which speaks to the ways women's ambitions are weaponized against them to digging into these heterosexual dating and relationships dynamics more deeply. And to your point, thank goodness women are recognizing this for the red flag it is!
This is why these men also want 18 year olds or foreign mail order brides. It's the lack of independence - or rather, the dependence - that attracts them.
Interesting, my hubs of nearly 44 years told me that the fact that I owned a house made me more attractive. He was tired of dates that saw him as a blank check.
They do not just live on the internet. This is nothing new really.
I remember one time when then boyfriend and I split for a half year, my brother hooked me up with a friend of his. I was not really looking, but I was not saying no to a night out, so I went.
Dude was nice and polite, but he just sort of rubbed me wrong. I was not versed enough to understand arrogance, but that is what it was. He talked about his car, he talked about his job, he talked about his accomplishments- without once asking me about any of mine. So I volunteered and told him allllll about my education and job and hope for the future of my career, and dude got down right...aggressively dismissive. Being me, every time he changed the subject, I had a fun time swinging it right back again. He had to go a bit earlier than I thought and I was not sad.
Later I heard from my brother that said friend thought I was "too independent."
I'm just under 6 feet tall, never had a 6-pack, and very briefly made 6 figures in my late 30s. Luckily, I was married long before this rule was in place.
My experience was from the opposite direction. I thought we were madly in love when we packed up and moved to L.A. for the plethora of jobs to be had. We got there and there weren't any jobs in my field - they were all being automated and the few jobs that were still being performed by humans were filled.
Then it came out that I wasn't tall enough. That my job didn't pay enough. That she didn't want to go to the beach with me because she was embarrassed by my club-feet. That A REAL MAN would insist that the teenager hawking cotton candy go and get us another beer. That A REAL MAN would get plastered with her and go make fun of the Catholics at the Christmas Eve midnight Mass. That our auto wasn't good enough. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
At the end she told me that the sex was excellent but it was not enough. Here I thought we were making love and not just getting our rocks off.
So I came back to the Commonwealth and met a woman who insisted that I go back to college and get a degree. She drove me to admissions; I signed up for a course and got a very good job in a field that was not all related to what would be my new degree. That was it. Not a single other demand beyond the vows we took to make a life together come Hell or high water. She's sees our relationship as a true partnership where we both contribute what we can when we can and the hell with all that superficiality. (We've been happily married now for 38 years.)
There are all kinds of ways to care for someone(and, like, what, she's gonna wrestle every check out of his hands? I think not.) Also, I own a small mangy condo that I never thought of as a mark against my femininity...
Ta, Robyn. I married a man who is interesting, funny, brilliant, and kind. He teaches public school kids in Brooklyn how to read (English as a New Language and he's also a reading specialist and the testing coordinator for his school), which is really doing good in this world. He's about 8" taller than I and I give less than a single fuck that he isn't 6' tall and doesn't have six pack abs. We're perfect for each other and looking forward to sharing decades together after retirement. I've never used a dating app of any kind. We met at a WonkMeet before his wife died; when we met again at Holly and Paul's Voluntary Commitment Ceremony, he was widowed and asked me on a date which I accepted. Yes, it took him four months after that to call me, and I didn't call back right away because my roommate was dying so in effect I had two full-time jobs. When roomie died, my future husband texted me very kind words, so I returned his call. Yes, it's a(nother) Wonkette Love Story for the ages.
This is nothing new. I’m 67 and my father warned me in my teens to stay away from men who were intimidated by smart women.
Thanks so much for sharing. The inspiration for this piece came up while I was interviewing women for my book and I can't tell you how frequently I heard similar stories (and I've heard many more in response to this piece too). If it wasn't men lashing out at them for owning their own homes, it was men lashing out when women outearned them or had a major professional wins or opportunities. I wound up digging into the research and finding it wasn't just anecdotal but statistically significant. So much so that I dedicated a whole chapter of my new book "The Ambition Penalty" which speaks to the ways women's ambitions are weaponized against them to digging into these heterosexual dating and relationships dynamics more deeply. And to your point, thank goodness women are recognizing this for the red flag it is!
This is a good thing. Women deserve to see a clear red flag when these guys approach.
This is why these men also want 18 year olds or foreign mail order brides. It's the lack of independence - or rather, the dependence - that attracts them.
Interesting, my hubs of nearly 44 years told me that the fact that I owned a house made me more attractive. He was tired of dates that saw him as a blank check.
The agency. Nothing new.
They do not just live on the internet. This is nothing new really.
I remember one time when then boyfriend and I split for a half year, my brother hooked me up with a friend of his. I was not really looking, but I was not saying no to a night out, so I went.
Dude was nice and polite, but he just sort of rubbed me wrong. I was not versed enough to understand arrogance, but that is what it was. He talked about his car, he talked about his job, he talked about his accomplishments- without once asking me about any of mine. So I volunteered and told him allllll about my education and job and hope for the future of my career, and dude got down right...aggressively dismissive. Being me, every time he changed the subject, I had a fun time swinging it right back again. He had to go a bit earlier than I thought and I was not sad.
Later I heard from my brother that said friend thought I was "too independent."
This was in in the aughts
I'm not convinced there is such a thing as "too independent," especially for women in our current culture.
I would be delighted to move into a Barbie Dream House. As I get older an elevator seems kind of smart to me.
Barbie was ADA-compliant before it was federally mandated.
"“If you buy that house, what’s a guy going to do for you?” he said. It was just after their first date, and just before what would be their last."
If the guy claims he wants to buy a house for her, then why is he calling her a "golddigger"?
I'm just under 6 feet tall, never had a 6-pack, and very briefly made 6 figures in my late 30s. Luckily, I was married long before this rule was in place.
My experience was from the opposite direction. I thought we were madly in love when we packed up and moved to L.A. for the plethora of jobs to be had. We got there and there weren't any jobs in my field - they were all being automated and the few jobs that were still being performed by humans were filled.
Then it came out that I wasn't tall enough. That my job didn't pay enough. That she didn't want to go to the beach with me because she was embarrassed by my club-feet. That A REAL MAN would insist that the teenager hawking cotton candy go and get us another beer. That A REAL MAN would get plastered with her and go make fun of the Catholics at the Christmas Eve midnight Mass. That our auto wasn't good enough. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
At the end she told me that the sex was excellent but it was not enough. Here I thought we were making love and not just getting our rocks off.
So I came back to the Commonwealth and met a woman who insisted that I go back to college and get a degree. She drove me to admissions; I signed up for a course and got a very good job in a field that was not all related to what would be my new degree. That was it. Not a single other demand beyond the vows we took to make a life together come Hell or high water. She's sees our relationship as a true partnership where we both contribute what we can when we can and the hell with all that superficiality. (We've been happily married now for 38 years.)
This seems like a challenging time to be heterosexual.
Bad news for Ted Haggard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZmHC75FDqQ
‘don’t swipe if you’re an independent woman or if you’re not feminine.’
> more for me, I guess. If I actually did apps.
There are all kinds of ways to care for someone(and, like, what, she's gonna wrestle every check out of his hands? I think not.) Also, I own a small mangy condo that I never thought of as a mark against my femininity...
Seems to fit with: Men Who Are Weird About Women Who Own Their Own Bodies
Ta, Robyn. I married a man who is interesting, funny, brilliant, and kind. He teaches public school kids in Brooklyn how to read (English as a New Language and he's also a reading specialist and the testing coordinator for his school), which is really doing good in this world. He's about 8" taller than I and I give less than a single fuck that he isn't 6' tall and doesn't have six pack abs. We're perfect for each other and looking forward to sharing decades together after retirement. I've never used a dating app of any kind. We met at a WonkMeet before his wife died; when we met again at Holly and Paul's Voluntary Commitment Ceremony, he was widowed and asked me on a date which I accepted. Yes, it took him four months after that to call me, and I didn't call back right away because my roommate was dying so in effect I had two full-time jobs. When roomie died, my future husband texted me very kind words, so I returned his call. Yes, it's a(nother) Wonkette Love Story for the ages.
Thanks for sharing. Sometimes we just need these stories. They help restore belief in kindness and decency and all things bright and beautiful.