To me this is a play on the Tolerance Paradox - "if we just give them a little bit more of what they worry about, then they will totally come to our side on everything else. No! This is not how this works.
My position has been, for decades, that before we give any credence to anyone who says they’re against abortion because of the baybeez that person should be offering their body to finish gestation for anyone who wants an abortion, and that offer should be medically possible. Which means we ain’t there yet.
As far as I’m concerned, abortion is health care, and no ham-fisted assumptions to judge the age of the fetus should be legally considered because ”late term abortions” are sought either because something has gone terribly wrong or because some shthead has put in barriers that kept the pregnant person from getting care when needed, as Robyn pointed out.
Also, there should be no “you missed the deadline” blockades when it comes to the product of rape. EVERY PREGNANT PERSON under the age of consent was raped.
I am so very angry that we are STILL giving even the smallest scintilla of attention to anyone who thinks abortions are icky and therefore should not be done.
As someone who lived through the 90s as a young adult, a quick reminder of what Bill Clinton meant when he said that abortion should be 'safe, legal, and rare.'
He meant we should try to REDUCE UNWANTED PREGNANCIES.
And we SHOULD do this. Every Democrat should support comprehensive, age-appropriate sex education, and reliable access to family planning resources including but not limited to birth control and child care opportunities.
EVERYONE should want few abortions. Not because there is something wrong with having one, but because of the reasons behind the necessity for it: rape, failure of birth control, lack of ACCESS to birth control, lack of financial resources for prenatal care much less an actual child, health complications in the mother, fetal complications leading to either severe disability or incompatibility with life outside the womb.
What each individual person's reason for wanting/needing an abortion should be irrelevant and no one's business, but we should be trying to reduce those situations by making sure everyone has access to adequate education and resources.
A liberal male friend told me last week that he had no idea women produced testosterone (I was explaining how there are female athletes who are genetically XXY and thus generally, but not always, have a higher testosterone level than the average XX female. The Olympic Committee bans them from competition). This is an educated man with sisters. Until men demonstrate not being total idiots about women’s health, they can fuck right off.
The percentage of people who are not XY or XX is miniscule. Additionally, being XXY may not result in any noticeable attributes or lack thereof. The "Y'" chromosome is in reality a "X" chromosome lacking certain elements.. Higher mammalian metabolism and endocrinology is a very complex process which is not yet fully understood. and something that very few pundits and politicians have sufficient knowledge of to speak intelligently about nor offer any opinion on. A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
The point is not the rarity of XXY people, it's the fact that this "educated man with sisters" did not know that women produce testosterone. Men like that ought to be as rare as XXY individuals. In fact, women constantly marvel at how ignorant men in general are about female human anatomy, and yet they feel they are qualified to make medical decisions about our bodies.
Want to reduce abortion? Make it easier to raise children. More support for parents, financial and otherwise. This would have the tangential benefit of “more babies” everyone seems to want.
Don’t want to do that? Fuck off with your bullshit.
Somebody at some point will actually point out that making child care impossible to find and unaffordable, along with the skyrocketing cost of housing (and not to mention gasoline, diapers and food) will ensure that abortion becomes unnecessary because nobody will be able to afford to get pregnant and have children. And yet they will babble on about the virtues of the traditional nuclear family and how it's needed to stave off the influx of foreigners and I will want to stab that person in the eye.
Older, cis, White male here. I have a moderate view about abortion:
It's nobody's fucking business except for the woman or girl, her doctor, and, maybe, her family. Abortion must be legal, it must be available, and it must be up to the woman or girl to choose what she's going to do at a very difficult time in her life. It's nobody's fucking business what she chooses to do. Just give her the love and support she needs, and fucking respect her decision.
OMFG I am SO fucking tired of these assholes whittering on about "nuance" and "compromise" about a right that doesn't affect them in the fucking slightest.
YO, ZAID AND YOUR FELLOW ASSHOLES... ROE WAS THE FUCKING COMPROMISE.
You fucked us on that one and now you get NOTHING. I will NEVER support ANY restrictions on abortions because you've shown us you can't be trusted.
I don't give a shit when you think life begins. It's your opinion, nothing more. There is NO medical or biological standard that says "it begins at fertilization" or whenever because - news flash, asshats - gestation is a fucking PROCESS, not an event.
You're entitled to your opinion but it applies only to YOU. Other people also get to form THEIR OWN opinions and to live according to them. You do NOT get to use the law to force me to live according to YOUR opinion, you entitled prick.,
But this isn't actually about the babies or when life begins... this is about women being fully autonomous members of society. This is about First Amendment protections against being forced to live according to the tenets of someone else's religion being honored. This is about my humanity. That you guys don't see that is, in itself, fucking enraging.
I am fucking SICK to death of having these fucking dudebros telling me that oh no they're not misogynists or anything but they just have deeply held beliefs that I'm an appliance or livestock, that my autonomy - my PERSONHOOD - is conditional, and is operative only as long as someone else - even a POTENTIAL someone else - doesn't have a use for my body, too bad so sorry.
Every time I hear one of these fuckwits natter on without realizing they're telling me that I'm a thing to be used, not an end in myself, the stabbiness reaches critical levels.
“This served as an admission that abortion is not just a routine medical procedure like a root canal, and it would be best if it was rare.“
A root canal also isn’t a routine medical procedure! It’s supposed to be done on teeth that have cavities too big to be filled, or on an infected tooth. Mine was performed by a regular dentist but you can also go to a specialist. And while I imagine that someone might get a root canal preventatively, as far as I know, most of them are done so the infection in the tooth doesn’t spread. Tooth infections are especially dangerous because they can spread to the brain, which, as the original article writer might not be aware, is close to the mouth. So the ideal rate for root canals, like abortions, is “as many as needed, because the consequences of NOT having them can be much, much worse.”
This story is missing necessary context, and that is: Zaid Jilani's recent rants on how Graham Platner has come to save us from the scourge of "HR ladies"
Wish I could upvote you, Robyn, a zillion times! These men like Jelani who want to be acknowledged as being "fair" "just" "thoughtful" males who nevertheless feel squicky about safe effective medical procedures? They're gaslighting full of shit assholes who don't listen because they don't want to listen to the ONE GROUP, a very LARGE group of people who would be most affected by these shortsighted, ill-advised, even dangerous policy "suggestions" of theirs. It's just another way to control females, and could Shakespeare's Iago be any more proud of them? Yes, Jelani, females are people. Just as much as you are. Their basic human rights are not up for debate or negotiations, asshole. Flames on the sides of my face, INDEED.
"This served as an admission that abortion is not just a routine medical procedure like a root canal, and it would be best if it was rare." Sorry, so unlike abortions, it's cool for root canal procedures to be super common? Could it be that root canal frequency is maybe tied to the fact that we have to have separate insurance coverage for our eyes, brain, teeth, and the rest of the body?
Also, on the whole "abortion needs to be a decision between patient and doctor" argument, somebody with more expertise advise me if my instinctive annoyance at this frequently-stated sentiment is misplaced - it has always come across to me as very paternalistic, like "you need Doc's permission". Unless it's an issue where the patient does not know, absent medical intervention, that there's a reason for an abortion, seems like it needs to be their decision and the doc carries out their wishes unless there's a damn good evidence-based reason not to.
But on the central idea of "why are we sucking up to potential voters who will never ever ever ever ever ever vote for Democrats," yeah.
Yes, that “between the patient and doctor” bit has always stunk to high heaven for me, too. The person doing the gestating is the only person whose opinion matters. If they don’t want to continue the pregnancy, it’s their business and no one else’s.
It’s part and parcel of those doctors who refuse to perform a hysterectomy on someone because “they might regret it” someday. Or, even more infuriating, only after the doctor gets permission from an associated male.
To me this is a play on the Tolerance Paradox - "if we just give them a little bit more of what they worry about, then they will totally come to our side on everything else. No! This is not how this works.
My position has been, for decades, that before we give any credence to anyone who says they’re against abortion because of the baybeez that person should be offering their body to finish gestation for anyone who wants an abortion, and that offer should be medically possible. Which means we ain’t there yet.
As far as I’m concerned, abortion is health care, and no ham-fisted assumptions to judge the age of the fetus should be legally considered because ”late term abortions” are sought either because something has gone terribly wrong or because some shthead has put in barriers that kept the pregnant person from getting care when needed, as Robyn pointed out.
Also, there should be no “you missed the deadline” blockades when it comes to the product of rape. EVERY PREGNANT PERSON under the age of consent was raped.
I am so very angry that we are STILL giving even the smallest scintilla of attention to anyone who thinks abortions are icky and therefore should not be done.
The fact that there are more than 6 people in the United States who support repealing the 19th Amendment is indeed alarming
As someone who lived through the 90s as a young adult, a quick reminder of what Bill Clinton meant when he said that abortion should be 'safe, legal, and rare.'
He meant we should try to REDUCE UNWANTED PREGNANCIES.
And we SHOULD do this. Every Democrat should support comprehensive, age-appropriate sex education, and reliable access to family planning resources including but not limited to birth control and child care opportunities.
EVERYONE should want few abortions. Not because there is something wrong with having one, but because of the reasons behind the necessity for it: rape, failure of birth control, lack of ACCESS to birth control, lack of financial resources for prenatal care much less an actual child, health complications in the mother, fetal complications leading to either severe disability or incompatibility with life outside the womb.
What each individual person's reason for wanting/needing an abortion should be irrelevant and no one's business, but we should be trying to reduce those situations by making sure everyone has access to adequate education and resources.
A liberal male friend told me last week that he had no idea women produced testosterone (I was explaining how there are female athletes who are genetically XXY and thus generally, but not always, have a higher testosterone level than the average XX female. The Olympic Committee bans them from competition). This is an educated man with sisters. Until men demonstrate not being total idiots about women’s health, they can fuck right off.
The percentage of people who are not XY or XX is miniscule. Additionally, being XXY may not result in any noticeable attributes or lack thereof. The "Y'" chromosome is in reality a "X" chromosome lacking certain elements.. Higher mammalian metabolism and endocrinology is a very complex process which is not yet fully understood. and something that very few pundits and politicians have sufficient knowledge of to speak intelligently about nor offer any opinion on. A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
The point is not the rarity of XXY people, it's the fact that this "educated man with sisters" did not know that women produce testosterone. Men like that ought to be as rare as XXY individuals. In fact, women constantly marvel at how ignorant men in general are about female human anatomy, and yet they feel they are qualified to make medical decisions about our bodies.
The point is that people who have access to the public forum should not be offering opinions on subjects they know nothing about
The number of men who object to free tampons in bathrooms because they think women can “just hold it “…
Jilani must have also missed how they want to do away with birth control.
And also, that Roe WAS the fucking compromise you douche canoe
Want to reduce abortion? Make it easier to raise children. More support for parents, financial and otherwise. This would have the tangential benefit of “more babies” everyone seems to want.
Don’t want to do that? Fuck off with your bullshit.
Somebody at some point will actually point out that making child care impossible to find and unaffordable, along with the skyrocketing cost of housing (and not to mention gasoline, diapers and food) will ensure that abortion becomes unnecessary because nobody will be able to afford to get pregnant and have children. And yet they will babble on about the virtues of the traditional nuclear family and how it's needed to stave off the influx of foreigners and I will want to stab that person in the eye.
Older, cis, White male here. I have a moderate view about abortion:
It's nobody's fucking business except for the woman or girl, her doctor, and, maybe, her family. Abortion must be legal, it must be available, and it must be up to the woman or girl to choose what she's going to do at a very difficult time in her life. It's nobody's fucking business what she chooses to do. Just give her the love and support she needs, and fucking respect her decision.
And this guy claims to be a progressive.
Pigs may fly.
I smell a "demographic of one" from this guy.
OMFG I am SO fucking tired of these assholes whittering on about "nuance" and "compromise" about a right that doesn't affect them in the fucking slightest.
YO, ZAID AND YOUR FELLOW ASSHOLES... ROE WAS THE FUCKING COMPROMISE.
You fucked us on that one and now you get NOTHING. I will NEVER support ANY restrictions on abortions because you've shown us you can't be trusted.
I don't give a shit when you think life begins. It's your opinion, nothing more. There is NO medical or biological standard that says "it begins at fertilization" or whenever because - news flash, asshats - gestation is a fucking PROCESS, not an event.
You're entitled to your opinion but it applies only to YOU. Other people also get to form THEIR OWN opinions and to live according to them. You do NOT get to use the law to force me to live according to YOUR opinion, you entitled prick.,
But this isn't actually about the babies or when life begins... this is about women being fully autonomous members of society. This is about First Amendment protections against being forced to live according to the tenets of someone else's religion being honored. This is about my humanity. That you guys don't see that is, in itself, fucking enraging.
I am fucking SICK to death of having these fucking dudebros telling me that oh no they're not misogynists or anything but they just have deeply held beliefs that I'm an appliance or livestock, that my autonomy - my PERSONHOOD - is conditional, and is operative only as long as someone else - even a POTENTIAL someone else - doesn't have a use for my body, too bad so sorry.
Every time I hear one of these fuckwits natter on without realizing they're telling me that I'm a thing to be used, not an end in myself, the stabbiness reaches critical levels.
ARRRGH.
IMHO in any sentence you can disregard every single word that appears before the word "but".
Fuckin' A, Sarg.
“This served as an admission that abortion is not just a routine medical procedure like a root canal, and it would be best if it was rare.“
A root canal also isn’t a routine medical procedure! It’s supposed to be done on teeth that have cavities too big to be filled, or on an infected tooth. Mine was performed by a regular dentist but you can also go to a specialist. And while I imagine that someone might get a root canal preventatively, as far as I know, most of them are done so the infection in the tooth doesn’t spread. Tooth infections are especially dangerous because they can spread to the brain, which, as the original article writer might not be aware, is close to the mouth. So the ideal rate for root canals, like abortions, is “as many as needed, because the consequences of NOT having them can be much, much worse.”
Wanker.
This story is missing necessary context, and that is: Zaid Jilani's recent rants on how Graham Platner has come to save us from the scourge of "HR ladies"
Ahhh so, misogynistic fuck stick
I wonder if all those times Jilani got dumped had an adverse effect on his thinking
Wish I could upvote you, Robyn, a zillion times! These men like Jelani who want to be acknowledged as being "fair" "just" "thoughtful" males who nevertheless feel squicky about safe effective medical procedures? They're gaslighting full of shit assholes who don't listen because they don't want to listen to the ONE GROUP, a very LARGE group of people who would be most affected by these shortsighted, ill-advised, even dangerous policy "suggestions" of theirs. It's just another way to control females, and could Shakespeare's Iago be any more proud of them? Yes, Jelani, females are people. Just as much as you are. Their basic human rights are not up for debate or negotiations, asshole. Flames on the sides of my face, INDEED.
"This served as an admission that abortion is not just a routine medical procedure like a root canal, and it would be best if it was rare." Sorry, so unlike abortions, it's cool for root canal procedures to be super common? Could it be that root canal frequency is maybe tied to the fact that we have to have separate insurance coverage for our eyes, brain, teeth, and the rest of the body?
Also, on the whole "abortion needs to be a decision between patient and doctor" argument, somebody with more expertise advise me if my instinctive annoyance at this frequently-stated sentiment is misplaced - it has always come across to me as very paternalistic, like "you need Doc's permission". Unless it's an issue where the patient does not know, absent medical intervention, that there's a reason for an abortion, seems like it needs to be their decision and the doc carries out their wishes unless there's a damn good evidence-based reason not to.
But on the central idea of "why are we sucking up to potential voters who will never ever ever ever ever ever vote for Democrats," yeah.
Yes, that “between the patient and doctor” bit has always stunk to high heaven for me, too. The person doing the gestating is the only person whose opinion matters. If they don’t want to continue the pregnancy, it’s their business and no one else’s.
It’s part and parcel of those doctors who refuse to perform a hysterectomy on someone because “they might regret it” someday. Or, even more infuriating, only after the doctor gets permission from an associated male.
Always looking for the silver lining in these dark and stormy times.
It's kind of refreshing to have a pundit tell us to dump abortion rights to get votes rather than LGBTQ+ rights.
At least transgender individuals can breathe easy around Jilani.
Unless they want an abortion.
I think NYT Ezra actually tried to make that fauxgument too
If we just let go of all our ideals, maybe republicans will vote for us!
/heavy sarcasms cause even then they would not vote for Democrats
even then they would not
you are correct