Here's Barack Obama endorsing a Republican, you bet The special election for Georgia's Sixth Congressional District is TODAY -- be sure to round up all your illegal alien friends and make sure they vote for Jon Ossoff! (Tell them he's Colombian.) As you might expect in the last days of a hotly contested election that's going to be the most expensive House race ever, there's all sorts of last-minute fuckery going on -- beyond the
The big problem seems to be election spending on behalf of a campaign without being affiliated to it. This whole lying by proxy is being horribly abused and we don't want outside agencies able to essentially steal campaign limits by pretending to support them.
When Your Wonkette gets up on their Purity Pony high horse and starts lecturing the progressive wing of the party, as they are occasionally wont to do, to put aside our differences so we can fight in common cause against our mutual foes, I'd like them to come back here and re-read this column.
Because when the progressive wing does that EXACT THING, it's labeled some kind of scam. The very progressive Grayson is splitting the proceeds of his fundraiser with the very not progressive Ossoff, just to stick a thumb in the Donald's eye, and Wonkette just called him a scumbag and spit in his face for the trouble.
This is why we can't have nice things.
And don't pretend it's some principled stand on the content of the fundraiser. Hillary pretended to be fundraising for down ballot Dems and kept virtually all the money for herself, and not a peep of discontent from the peanut gallery here. This is about it being Alan Grayson. Your Wonkette just doesn't like him. He's a progressive, and progressives are all douche bags.
And this is because you don't want to put aside our differences. You want the progressive wing to just accept your corporate bullshit and shut the fuck up already about universal healthcare, hippie! Big Insurance Companies are people too!
When the Democratic Party, and as an extension, Wonkette, figures out that you can't win national elections without the support of the progressive wing, I'm sure progressives will be happy to have a substantive, issues-based dialogue where we can come to some mutual agreement on a platform, where none of us are completely satisfied, but everyone can live with it.
The Clinton group still doesn't want that. We were told, "Fuck you. You lost. Why should you get any say in the platform." Remember that?
Yeah, that's why we're here now. Nice job, dumbasses.
Oh yes? Was that before or after Universal Healthcare, Universal public college tuition, condemnation of corporate-friendly free trade agreements that screw labor and criticism of Israel's Apartheid state were rejected? Was it before or after virtually all of his labor delegates were rejected from the platform committee?
We got the fight for 15 in the platform. Awesome. More achievements like that, and the Democrats might actually be a progressive political party in about a century.
My point stands, and I think you have just proven another non-commenter's point about the perfect being the enemy of the good. I posted the link from Senator Sanders' own site. The majority here would love to see more progressive policies, we just don't see the usefulness of shooting ourselves in the foot in the process.
OK, so, apart from the additional $3/hr the platform devotes to poor people, what, exactly, did the Clinton faction give up? Compromise involves giving up some things you want in order to get others. Clinton wanted, presumably, the progressive wing to vote for her (though, frankly, she didn't act like it).
What did the Clinton faction give up? Healthcare policy? Nope. Education? Nope. Foreign Policy? Nope. Her addiction to labor screwing free trade agreements? Nope...
And that's even after she claimed to not support the TPP that she helped negotiate!
Please. No one's asking for perfect. But my vote doesn't belong to the Ds just because the Rs are more horrible.
Remember, the Bernie wing goes nowhere without the support of the moderate Democrats. And Bernie is driving them away in droves with his constant attacks on them . As in the campaign, someone looking in from the outside now would think Bernie wasn't aware there was a Republican party because he spends most of his time attacking the Democrats.
One thing the Bernie Branch doesn't understand is that when voters are told the actual price of Bernie's programs, they get cold feet really fast. Not even counting the ACA, about 75% of the public has health insurance through their employer, Medicare, regular Medicaid, VA, or other subsidized health care. And the vast majority are happy with what they have. They become even happier with it when told the real numbers of a 10%, 12% or even higher increase in their income tax. A Vox poll last year showed support dropping to the low 30% range when talking about as little as a $500 increase in taxes. So the odds of congress or the public supporting a change to a nationwide, universal single payer health program is virtually impossible.
The same goes with free college tuition. Most people think state college tuition should be more affordable, but when it comes to seeing a significant tax increase, free loses out. In addition, the system in Germany that Bernie talked up so much is a lot more restrictive in admissions than the U.S., admitting only about 2/3 the percentage of students on a population basis as the U.S., which will not go over too well.
Finally, Bernie's budget and tax proposals are way out of whack. Economists laugh at Trump claiming a regular economic growth rate of 3%. Bernie promised an average of 5.3% for ten years, an impossible number to hit, even for one year. Even then, economists projected at least a 4 to 8 trillion dollar increase in the national debt over 10 years. He underestimated the cost, way overestimated savings, and claimed the wealthy would pay for almost all of it. Which we know would not happen. Bernie wants a system of European socialism even European countries do not have. But he fails to mention the 50% income tax rates and the 20% value added tax some of those countries have. The right wing will not go for any tax increases and most on the left will balk at doubling their taxes. Meaning Bernie will be dead in the water before he ever has a chance.
Name one thing Clinton would have done that Trump has either done or pushed. Push for repeal of the ACA? How about more restrictions on abortion and contraceptive rights, cuts to Planned Parenthood, removing protections for LGBT individuals, Muslims, racial, national or ethnic minorities? How about gutting environmental regulations? And before attacking fracking, tell me how you propose covering US energy needs without natural gas as a bridge to more green energy. Wishing does not run the heat in the winter or the a/c in the summer. Would she support gerrymandering and voter restrictions, a bumbling foreign policy, repeal of the Dodd-Frank Bill - fulfilling your misguided claim of shilling for Wall Street? Would she fill her cabinet with incompetent and corrupt right wing hacks, and would she fill Supreme Court seats with people like Gorsuch, and lower courts with over 100 of his clones? No, you ain't got shit to justify your failure to support Clinton last fall. There were two choices, Trump and Clinton. They both made their policies very clear. You pouted and essentially threatened to hold your breath until you got your way. You are on the verge of causing 20 million people to lose their health insurance, millions to lose food stamps, making college MORE expensive, and because some Bernie boosters just couldn't support only $12 an hour as a minimum wage when EVERYONE says it's got to be $15, millions and millions of people are stuck as low as $7.25 for several more years. The Bernie or Bust crowd has a lot to be proud of, huh? A minimum of 30 to 40 million people in this country screwed because Bernie lost and his fans wanted to make sure the lady who beat him would fail. Most of his supporters did the right thing and enthusiastically endorsed Clinton, but enough were determined to sabotage everything she did and said, becoming the worst enemy of the left and the useful idiots of the GOP and Russia.
These are all arguments conservadems make when they're trashing progressive policy. Too bad they aren't accurate.You only get a negative response from voters on single payer when you tell them the costs, and specifically and intentionally omit the savings. The fact is, single payer is administered in every. single. industrialized. nation. Except ours. And in every single industrialized nation, they spend less of their GDP and get better outcomes than the US does.But the centrist branch of the Party, brought to you by United Health, tells you we can't afford it. Apparently, it costs too much to save money.Further, US business would immediately be more profitable, since they'd no longer be on the hook for half their employees' insurance payments. And people on employer plans are satisfied, because they don't have anything to compare it to. When they become eligible for Medicare, they overwhelmingly prefer that.Increased access to Bachelor's programs make more kids qualified for more middle class level white collar jobs. Every policy Bernie proposed, from healthcare to education to improving labor protections to clamping down on corporate tax loopholes (there is nothing that says paying your own Irish subsidiary needs to be deductible. It's just a loophole that allows giant corporations to move money), is designed to increase the size and the buying power of the middle class, which is the best and surest way to real growth."Bernie promised an average of 5.3% for ten years". No he didn't. Gerald Friedman did. Most people consider that target overly optimistic, But conservadems who use it to paint Sanders' plans as rainbows and unicorns intentionally miss the forest for the trees. No one disputes the major plans of his platform would serve to increase growth. No one reasonably disputes that single payer is less expensive than our current system. No one serious, anyway.Why are you trotting out these canards, anyway? Bored?So, please, with your cooked numbers.
"Name one thing Clinton would have done that Trump has either done or pushed"Ramped up war in Syria. Clinton's no fly zone would have had us shooting down Syrian aircraft sooner, and leading us into a stand off with Russia. Exactly the same way Trump has.Acquiescence to Israel's apartheid policies.And what about Wall St? Her selected VP pick was actively trying to scuttle Dodd Frank regulations when she picked him. Just like Trump's administration is doing now.There's three right there. How much time do you have?
Don't bother. What, me worry is a Bernie or bust shrill asshole who is not the least bit interested in actual conversation- he just wants to preen around wonket, act smug, sanctimonious and morally superior while he presumes to lecture the rest of us for our failings. He's either too fucking stupid to understand that a good many of us were Bernie voters and still are part of the progressive wing of the party or he's too fucking dishonest to admit that he knows this, as he continues to propagate the completely bullshit stereotype that we're all crooked Hillary lovers who hate Bernie and hate the progressive wing of the party. I'm guessing the latter, given I already tried to explain this and was promptly ignored and the fact that his chief motivation seems to be wanting to act like an insufferable asshole, facts be damned.
Or he's one of Putin's boys trying to sow dissent in the ranks- hard to tell since he's too much of a coward to let us see his Disqus history. Either way- save yourself the trouble and tell him to fuck off. He'll get butthurt and clutch his pearls and block you, which will save you the trouble of trying to have an honest conversation with him- something he has no interest in. He's just here to be a smug and self righteous asshat, and he's more than willing to lie about both what he's said and what you said to do so.
These lying ads are bad and all, but the real problem is the thousands of ignorant idiots who believe them. People who base their election decisions on TV commercials probably shouldn't be voting in the first place.
Good, I was tired of this dumb conversation and tired of wasting monitor ink over a zealot anyways
Comrade Stalin stayed up all night, in fact.
The big problem seems to be election spending on behalf of a campaign without being affiliated to it. This whole lying by proxy is being horribly abused and we don't want outside agencies able to essentially steal campaign limits by pretending to support them.
When Your Wonkette gets up on their Purity Pony high horse and starts lecturing the progressive wing of the party, as they are occasionally wont to do, to put aside our differences so we can fight in common cause against our mutual foes, I'd like them to come back here and re-read this column.
Because when the progressive wing does that EXACT THING, it's labeled some kind of scam. The very progressive Grayson is splitting the proceeds of his fundraiser with the very not progressive Ossoff, just to stick a thumb in the Donald's eye, and Wonkette just called him a scumbag and spit in his face for the trouble.
This is why we can't have nice things.
And don't pretend it's some principled stand on the content of the fundraiser. Hillary pretended to be fundraising for down ballot Dems and kept virtually all the money for herself, and not a peep of discontent from the peanut gallery here. This is about it being Alan Grayson. Your Wonkette just doesn't like him. He's a progressive, and progressives are all douche bags.
And this is because you don't want to put aside our differences. You want the progressive wing to just accept your corporate bullshit and shut the fuck up already about universal healthcare, hippie! Big Insurance Companies are people too!
When the Democratic Party, and as an extension, Wonkette, figures out that you can't win national elections without the support of the progressive wing, I'm sure progressives will be happy to have a substantive, issues-based dialogue where we can come to some mutual agreement on a platform, where none of us are completely satisfied, but everyone can live with it.
The Clinton group still doesn't want that. We were told, "Fuck you. You lost. Why should you get any say in the platform." Remember that?
Yeah, that's why we're here now. Nice job, dumbasses.
Thus the very broad definition. There's way too many ways to sneak around it.
Well, we've had torrential rains alternating with normal rain here in the Greater Atlanta Metropolitan Area, so Handel probably wins.
"The Clinton group still doesn't want that. We were told, "Fuck you. You lost. Why should you get any say in the platform." Remember that?"
Um, no. Actually Bernie Sanders had a significant impact on the Democratic party platform, in spite of the fact that he is not a member of the party.
https://berniesanders.com/d...
Oh yes? Was that before or after Universal Healthcare, Universal public college tuition, condemnation of corporate-friendly free trade agreements that screw labor and criticism of Israel's Apartheid state were rejected? Was it before or after virtually all of his labor delegates were rejected from the platform committee?
We got the fight for 15 in the platform. Awesome. More achievements like that, and the Democrats might actually be a progressive political party in about a century.
Go blue.
My point stands, and I think you have just proven another non-commenter's point about the perfect being the enemy of the good. I posted the link from Senator Sanders' own site. The majority here would love to see more progressive policies, we just don't see the usefulness of shooting ourselves in the foot in the process.
OK, so, apart from the additional $3/hr the platform devotes to poor people, what, exactly, did the Clinton faction give up? Compromise involves giving up some things you want in order to get others. Clinton wanted, presumably, the progressive wing to vote for her (though, frankly, she didn't act like it).
What did the Clinton faction give up? Healthcare policy? Nope. Education? Nope. Foreign Policy? Nope. Her addiction to labor screwing free trade agreements? Nope...
And that's even after she claimed to not support the TPP that she helped negotiate!
Please. No one's asking for perfect. But my vote doesn't belong to the Ds just because the Rs are more horrible.
Remember, the Bernie wing goes nowhere without the support of the moderate Democrats. And Bernie is driving them away in droves with his constant attacks on them . As in the campaign, someone looking in from the outside now would think Bernie wasn't aware there was a Republican party because he spends most of his time attacking the Democrats.
One thing the Bernie Branch doesn't understand is that when voters are told the actual price of Bernie's programs, they get cold feet really fast. Not even counting the ACA, about 75% of the public has health insurance through their employer, Medicare, regular Medicaid, VA, or other subsidized health care. And the vast majority are happy with what they have. They become even happier with it when told the real numbers of a 10%, 12% or even higher increase in their income tax. A Vox poll last year showed support dropping to the low 30% range when talking about as little as a $500 increase in taxes. So the odds of congress or the public supporting a change to a nationwide, universal single payer health program is virtually impossible.
The same goes with free college tuition. Most people think state college tuition should be more affordable, but when it comes to seeing a significant tax increase, free loses out. In addition, the system in Germany that Bernie talked up so much is a lot more restrictive in admissions than the U.S., admitting only about 2/3 the percentage of students on a population basis as the U.S., which will not go over too well.
Finally, Bernie's budget and tax proposals are way out of whack. Economists laugh at Trump claiming a regular economic growth rate of 3%. Bernie promised an average of 5.3% for ten years, an impossible number to hit, even for one year. Even then, economists projected at least a 4 to 8 trillion dollar increase in the national debt over 10 years. He underestimated the cost, way overestimated savings, and claimed the wealthy would pay for almost all of it. Which we know would not happen. Bernie wants a system of European socialism even European countries do not have. But he fails to mention the 50% income tax rates and the 20% value added tax some of those countries have. The right wing will not go for any tax increases and most on the left will balk at doubling their taxes. Meaning Bernie will be dead in the water before he ever has a chance.
Name one thing Clinton would have done that Trump has either done or pushed. Push for repeal of the ACA? How about more restrictions on abortion and contraceptive rights, cuts to Planned Parenthood, removing protections for LGBT individuals, Muslims, racial, national or ethnic minorities? How about gutting environmental regulations? And before attacking fracking, tell me how you propose covering US energy needs without natural gas as a bridge to more green energy. Wishing does not run the heat in the winter or the a/c in the summer. Would she support gerrymandering and voter restrictions, a bumbling foreign policy, repeal of the Dodd-Frank Bill - fulfilling your misguided claim of shilling for Wall Street? Would she fill her cabinet with incompetent and corrupt right wing hacks, and would she fill Supreme Court seats with people like Gorsuch, and lower courts with over 100 of his clones? No, you ain't got shit to justify your failure to support Clinton last fall. There were two choices, Trump and Clinton. They both made their policies very clear. You pouted and essentially threatened to hold your breath until you got your way. You are on the verge of causing 20 million people to lose their health insurance, millions to lose food stamps, making college MORE expensive, and because some Bernie boosters just couldn't support only $12 an hour as a minimum wage when EVERYONE says it's got to be $15, millions and millions of people are stuck as low as $7.25 for several more years. The Bernie or Bust crowd has a lot to be proud of, huh? A minimum of 30 to 40 million people in this country screwed because Bernie lost and his fans wanted to make sure the lady who beat him would fail. Most of his supporters did the right thing and enthusiastically endorsed Clinton, but enough were determined to sabotage everything she did and said, becoming the worst enemy of the left and the useful idiots of the GOP and Russia.
These are all arguments conservadems make when they're trashing progressive policy. Too bad they aren't accurate.You only get a negative response from voters on single payer when you tell them the costs, and specifically and intentionally omit the savings. The fact is, single payer is administered in every. single. industrialized. nation. Except ours. And in every single industrialized nation, they spend less of their GDP and get better outcomes than the US does.But the centrist branch of the Party, brought to you by United Health, tells you we can't afford it. Apparently, it costs too much to save money.Further, US business would immediately be more profitable, since they'd no longer be on the hook for half their employees' insurance payments. And people on employer plans are satisfied, because they don't have anything to compare it to. When they become eligible for Medicare, they overwhelmingly prefer that.Increased access to Bachelor's programs make more kids qualified for more middle class level white collar jobs. Every policy Bernie proposed, from healthcare to education to improving labor protections to clamping down on corporate tax loopholes (there is nothing that says paying your own Irish subsidiary needs to be deductible. It's just a loophole that allows giant corporations to move money), is designed to increase the size and the buying power of the middle class, which is the best and surest way to real growth."Bernie promised an average of 5.3% for ten years". No he didn't. Gerald Friedman did. Most people consider that target overly optimistic, But conservadems who use it to paint Sanders' plans as rainbows and unicorns intentionally miss the forest for the trees. No one disputes the major plans of his platform would serve to increase growth. No one reasonably disputes that single payer is less expensive than our current system. No one serious, anyway.Why are you trotting out these canards, anyway? Bored?So, please, with your cooked numbers.
"Name one thing Clinton would have done that Trump has either done or pushed"Ramped up war in Syria. Clinton's no fly zone would have had us shooting down Syrian aircraft sooner, and leading us into a stand off with Russia. Exactly the same way Trump has.Acquiescence to Israel's apartheid policies.And what about Wall St? Her selected VP pick was actively trying to scuttle Dodd Frank regulations when she picked him. Just like Trump's administration is doing now.There's three right there. How much time do you have?
Don't bother. What, me worry is a Bernie or bust shrill asshole who is not the least bit interested in actual conversation- he just wants to preen around wonket, act smug, sanctimonious and morally superior while he presumes to lecture the rest of us for our failings. He's either too fucking stupid to understand that a good many of us were Bernie voters and still are part of the progressive wing of the party or he's too fucking dishonest to admit that he knows this, as he continues to propagate the completely bullshit stereotype that we're all crooked Hillary lovers who hate Bernie and hate the progressive wing of the party. I'm guessing the latter, given I already tried to explain this and was promptly ignored and the fact that his chief motivation seems to be wanting to act like an insufferable asshole, facts be damned.
Or he's one of Putin's boys trying to sow dissent in the ranks- hard to tell since he's too much of a coward to let us see his Disqus history. Either way- save yourself the trouble and tell him to fuck off. He'll get butthurt and clutch his pearls and block you, which will save you the trouble of trying to have an honest conversation with him- something he has no interest in. He's just here to be a smug and self righteous asshat, and he's more than willing to lie about both what he's said and what you said to do so.
These lying ads are bad and all, but the real problem is the thousands of ignorant idiots who believe them. People who base their election decisions on TV commercials probably shouldn't be voting in the first place.