Yes it's true and the worst part was women couldn't be allies. Because there was a finite supply of what women needed, because it all had to come from men. I bet that's why men love to see women in fist fights too, it confirms something in a primitive part of their brains! So depressing, right?
Thing is, back then, for many women the only way to get any power was through manipulative means. Couldn't just go out and do things, but had to do them through a man - remember "Behind every great man there's a great woman"? That was felt to be, at the time, a respectful and woman-positive comment - that a woman's way to greatness was through a man, not on her own.
And that's my theory behind why so many old women are kinda terrible. I've known a lot of manipulative, back stabbing, hypocritical old women, and I think it's because as they were growing up, they learned too well the lesson that they could never approach a problem directly and honestly. That's got to warp a person, after seventy years of it.
Then the men would have to come down off their high horse. Because what forms so much of women's experience is dodging men and that was utterly hidden from men. ES Gardner did not understand the peril women were in actually, just misjudged the physical inequality between men and women and didn't understand how often it came down to force. He respected women a lot though. And he seemed to see them as situating themselves in a marketplace and using their looks etc as a man uses what he has, as they describe all this to him, but he doesn't grasp the danger this puts them in or the scorn, because he sees it as just good sense on their part to do that. Sometimes Della speaks up but sometimes she just says, "Watch out, Chief, she's trouble!" Just don't read any LIFE magazines from those days, you'll go mad. Well as a woman I did, but I think you also will. So alienating OMG. You know why that man shot all those people from the tower at University of Texas? His mother was a stay at home mother, instead of going out to work and helping his dad financially, like so many other lazy women. So she paid too much attention to her son, and made him into a sissy, according to psychologists. How times change, and how the woman is always around to be blamed.
I really can't imagine a different Perry Mason or Ham Burger or Della Street; they pretty much made the roles their own. It's kind of like when Patrick Stewart and Glenn Close did a remake of "The Lion in Winter": two hella talented performers, and even so they couldn't own the roles because Peter O'Toole and Katherine Hepburn got there first.
People in black and white times had no idea how to write women. "My" old TV show is "Have Gun - Will Travel", probably the smartest Western out there. About ten percent of its catalog was written by Gene Roddenberry, and you can always tell it's Roddenberry because he writes women so badly. The thing is, I think he's trying to write them as intelligent and nuanced, but he's got blinders that he just can't get past -- thus his women are all either ruled by their womanly impulses or heartless and scheming. (Except for some who are simply loud and unpleasant for no known reason.) It's a fairly frequent occurrence that I'll be watching HGWT and people at Castle Beauregard will hear me mutter "goddamn Roddenberry".
You know what show needs to come back? "Early Edition". That's the show from the 90s about a guy who gets tomorrow's paper a day early, so he spends his time averting tragedies. He is not the first paper-receiving guy, and as of the series finale we know that the next paper person will be (which is why I bring this up) a girl named Lindsey Romick. She's maybe 10 in that episode, which was almost 20 years ago ... so do a sequel series where it's Lindsey Romick around 30 years old, getting the paper and saving lives. I think they could write a woman action lead properly these days.
You're right, and I did see a Law & Order that had stolen a Perry Mason idea-- small world! Do you agree Raymond Burr is excellent beyond belief? All three of them are perfect I think. But the women characters-- it's a shame, they are just calculating, and completely transparent at the same time. Gardner also has some big blind spots but the books are too much fun. I saw an episode of the tv show which ended with one actually blameless woman character who'd been totally betrayed and lay dead on the floor at the feet of Tragg and another man. The show ends with Tragg gazing down at her and saying, "It's funny, you almost feel sorry for her." You think I'm making this up but I'm not.
To the TV show's credit, they do at least make some kind of attempt at plausible legal proceedings between law-talking guys. That said, I won't deny that it's a misogyny fest. The portrayals of women on that show wouldn't fly today; at the very least, Della would be more than an extension of Perry.
One episode taught me about the subpoena "duces tecum", meaning a subpoena to bring some object to court. It's pronounced "deuces take 'em", which sounds like a type of poker favored by law students.
Either Perry loses a ton of cases we never see, or else Hamilton Burger is the least genre-savvy guy ever. Perry chews up Ham Burger in court every single episode, and sooner or later you'd think he'd start to realize, "maybe I should just stop antagonizing Perry and just let him find the real killer". Unless that's his methodology: make Perry's life hard enough that he has no choice but to find the real killer? Okay, maybe Hamilton's smarter than I thought.
You should travel more, MondeLGG. The people in other countries are more provincial, traditional, and less diverse than here and they move around less within their countries, they see fewer people from other groups. They're poorer too. Do you think this produces open-minded, non-racist people? It does not. In Europe, I found, every old person feels they have the right to scold every young person-- especially foreigners-- just an example of the weight of the culture on people who don't want to live like it's the middle ages.
Yes it's true and the worst part was women couldn't be allies. Because there was a finite supply of what women needed, because it all had to come from men. I bet that's why men love to see women in fist fights too, it confirms something in a primitive part of their brains! So depressing, right?
I ate my first pizza in my teens.
Thing is, back then, for many women the only way to get any power was through manipulative means. Couldn't just go out and do things, but had to do them through a man - remember "Behind every great man there's a great woman"? That was felt to be, at the time, a respectful and woman-positive comment - that a woman's way to greatness was through a man, not on her own.
And that's my theory behind why so many old women are kinda terrible. I've known a lot of manipulative, back stabbing, hypocritical old women, and I think it's because as they were growing up, they learned too well the lesson that they could never approach a problem directly and honestly. That's got to warp a person, after seventy years of it.
Laughing would be good. I'd rather they just ignored The Dotard.
I've read about the comment, but not about Louie and Blakey being surprised.
Then the men would have to come down off their high horse. Because what forms so much of women's experience is dodging men and that was utterly hidden from men. ES Gardner did not understand the peril women were in actually, just misjudged the physical inequality between men and women and didn't understand how often it came down to force. He respected women a lot though. And he seemed to see them as situating themselves in a marketplace and using their looks etc as a man uses what he has, as they describe all this to him, but he doesn't grasp the danger this puts them in or the scorn, because he sees it as just good sense on their part to do that. Sometimes Della speaks up but sometimes she just says, "Watch out, Chief, she's trouble!" Just don't read any LIFE magazines from those days, you'll go mad. Well as a woman I did, but I think you also will. So alienating OMG. You know why that man shot all those people from the tower at University of Texas? His mother was a stay at home mother, instead of going out to work and helping his dad financially, like so many other lazy women. So she paid too much attention to her son, and made him into a sissy, according to psychologists. How times change, and how the woman is always around to be blamed.
I really can't imagine a different Perry Mason or Ham Burger or Della Street; they pretty much made the roles their own. It's kind of like when Patrick Stewart and Glenn Close did a remake of "The Lion in Winter": two hella talented performers, and even so they couldn't own the roles because Peter O'Toole and Katherine Hepburn got there first.
People in black and white times had no idea how to write women. "My" old TV show is "Have Gun - Will Travel", probably the smartest Western out there. About ten percent of its catalog was written by Gene Roddenberry, and you can always tell it's Roddenberry because he writes women so badly. The thing is, I think he's trying to write them as intelligent and nuanced, but he's got blinders that he just can't get past -- thus his women are all either ruled by their womanly impulses or heartless and scheming. (Except for some who are simply loud and unpleasant for no known reason.) It's a fairly frequent occurrence that I'll be watching HGWT and people at Castle Beauregard will hear me mutter "goddamn Roddenberry".
You know what show needs to come back? "Early Edition". That's the show from the 90s about a guy who gets tomorrow's paper a day early, so he spends his time averting tragedies. He is not the first paper-receiving guy, and as of the series finale we know that the next paper person will be (which is why I bring this up) a girl named Lindsey Romick. She's maybe 10 in that episode, which was almost 20 years ago ... so do a sequel series where it's Lindsey Romick around 30 years old, getting the paper and saving lives. I think they could write a woman action lead properly these days.
You're right, and I did see a Law & Order that had stolen a Perry Mason idea-- small world! Do you agree Raymond Burr is excellent beyond belief? All three of them are perfect I think. But the women characters-- it's a shame, they are just calculating, and completely transparent at the same time. Gardner also has some big blind spots but the books are too much fun. I saw an episode of the tv show which ended with one actually blameless woman character who'd been totally betrayed and lay dead on the floor at the feet of Tragg and another man. The show ends with Tragg gazing down at her and saying, "It's funny, you almost feel sorry for her." You think I'm making this up but I'm not.
To the TV show's credit, they do at least make some kind of attempt at plausible legal proceedings between law-talking guys. That said, I won't deny that it's a misogyny fest. The portrayals of women on that show wouldn't fly today; at the very least, Della would be more than an extension of Perry.
One episode taught me about the subpoena "duces tecum", meaning a subpoena to bring some object to court. It's pronounced "deuces take 'em", which sounds like a type of poker favored by law students.
Either Perry loses a ton of cases we never see, or else Hamilton Burger is the least genre-savvy guy ever. Perry chews up Ham Burger in court every single episode, and sooner or later you'd think he'd start to realize, "maybe I should just stop antagonizing Perry and just let him find the real killer". Unless that's his methodology: make Perry's life hard enough that he has no choice but to find the real killer? Okay, maybe Hamilton's smarter than I thought.
I like him. I'm acting like that's important to you all. I think he's a funny man tho. He's modest!
That's such a shame.
You should travel more, MondeLGG. The people in other countries are more provincial, traditional, and less diverse than here and they move around less within their countries, they see fewer people from other groups. They're poorer too. Do you think this produces open-minded, non-racist people? It does not. In Europe, I found, every old person feels they have the right to scold every young person-- especially foreigners-- just an example of the weight of the culture on people who don't want to live like it's the middle ages.
And knows when to make herself scarce.
HAHAHAHA!
Citation Please
No way! They were BIG into pussy!
Or was it big pussies?