I suspect that a part of their brains does dream of something like this. A return to the purity of manual labor, of closeness to Nature... It's the "Golden Age" they keep harping about.
This was part of the fascist discourse from day one. (and this was also part of the communist discourse, for the same reasons - The Wanderer mentioned Pol Pot just above) In part to reach to the electorate which happen to be peasants, miners, and blue-collar factory workers - a big chunk of the population between the 1800's and the 1970's, between the industrial revolution and the numeric revolution. A little less big nowadays, thanks to automation and computers, as you pointed out.But not just that. Politicians of the populist flavor do have some very romantic notions about manual labor.Of course, manual labor is for the great unwashed masses. The deserving ones - the leaders - get to stay on top and benefit from all modern things. I believe it's called a feudal system.
Tl;dr: As long as he is not the one breaking his back tilling the soil, he is all for it.
The US founders are frequently called "patriots" rather than "nationalists", despite the fact that they created a nation state. They enshrined racism in the constitution of the country they created. Should they be called "nationalists" instead?
The 1848 liberal revolutions by nationalists across Europe were not about "getting in line, shutting up, and doing what Dear Leader tells you"- they were open rebellions against leaders of empires. The people who led these rebellions are quite commonly considered patriots in their respective countries today, yet their cause was nationalism.
I'm an ABD in Soviet History myself, but it was watching a documentary about WWII and the camps got seriously interested in history. I have my own struggle against what people "know" about the Russians.
I was maybe 8 or 9, dad had fell asleep one afternoon in front of the TV and this was on. I saw a photo of a handprint in an oven wall and asked myself "How could people do that?" Shirer's "Rise and Fall" was the first serious history I read, in HS.
My favorite on the topic has proved Childers' "The Nazi Voter: The Social Foundation of Fascism" which outlined the electoral appeals they used. They pushed anti-communism (a renewed GOP offering now) and kept the anti-semitism subdued; the lumpen base needed it, but not the respectable middle class voters they needed. The industrial working class, in their KPD/SPD affiliated unions, never bought.
And so I'll throw Niemoller's almost poetic lament about the passivity of the opposition in the mix whenever I can. "First, they came for the communists. But I was not a communist, so I did nothing." It was they, other leftists, and select rightist opponents who first experienced "protective custody" at Dachau.
As the SPD and the KPD both had paramilitaries which fought the SA in the streets, armed resistance was possible. Armed rebellion by organized leftists, I don't think Second Amendment Remedy advocates really wanna talk that up. They elected to stand down, in view of the Wehrmacht's support for the Nazis. They and other rightist paramilitaries figured in their Order of Battle, as reserves. The one on the down low, in violation of Versailles, like the sub, airplane, and tank programs.
When we installed the junta in Kiev, I boned up on collaboration there with "Nazi Empire-Building and the Holocaust in Ukraine." I'm wondering what you might think about the Banderaist adjacent Pravyi Sektor and similar militias.
I would enjoy a lesbian farmer lifestyle, but my mother has some property that she inherited from my father's family, so I've got my plot of land (at least until she sells it), but I do wonder about all the people living in New York City. Where will all those people raise their vegetables?
The other issue I have is what will we do when China decides to overrun the USA's peasant farmers. Will we somehow maintain a very sophisticated military, while we all go back to farming? As you can tell, I have a lot of questions.
People who have never done manual labor do have a very romantic view of it.
He (along with a lot of Democratic politicians, frankly) also doesn’t understand that “rural” and “die-hard Republican” are not necessarily a one-to-one proportion. And that most people are actually talking about exurbs when they say “rural.” If I lived surrounded by ugly strip-malls with a bleak, concrete-as-far-as-the-eye-can-see, 2-hour commute to the equally bleak office park every day instead of in an *actually* rural area where the nearest Walmart requires a passport to get to, I’d be hard pressed not to turn into the kind of grasping consumerist rage-ball Walker thinks is “rural,” too.
Not for lack of trying. Both political parties in my state are ready to turn my whole region into the Land Of Ten Thousand Tailings Ponds right now. Dems are promising to make appropriately sad noises when the dams fail, though.
Really it’s who loses that’s the most important. Somebody has to lose to make it fun for them. It doesn’t even matter if they’re not really “winning” as long as they can make someone lose.
It’s freaking me out how little you’d have to tweak that Hawley speech to sound like a Bernie-or-Bust type* talking about the DNC.
*obligatory: Before anybody flips their shit, I caucused for Bernie, so #notallBerniesupporters, I KNOW. If you don’t fit the description, I’m not talking about you.
Congratulations, you took History 102 and can correctly identify the origins of modern nationalism.
I'll also note that this development lead pretty directly to a century and a half of warfare and empire building.
The nationalist revolutions of the 19th centuries laid the groundwork for the kind of vicious white supremacy masquerading as nationalism we see in Standartenführer Hawley's Blut und Boden speech.
The genocide and ethnic cleansing of Serbia in the 90's is a clear consequence of this "nationalism".
"Our Country" nationalism is far different from Hawley's "Our Culture and Religion" nationalism.
our forbearers
Those are the people that carry your foreskin, ain't they?
I think it's a coded gay reference -- people who are into ("for") bears.
I suspect that a part of their brains does dream of something like this. A return to the purity of manual labor, of closeness to Nature... It's the "Golden Age" they keep harping about.
This was part of the fascist discourse from day one. (and this was also part of the communist discourse, for the same reasons - The Wanderer mentioned Pol Pot just above) In part to reach to the electorate which happen to be peasants, miners, and blue-collar factory workers - a big chunk of the population between the 1800's and the 1970's, between the industrial revolution and the numeric revolution. A little less big nowadays, thanks to automation and computers, as you pointed out.But not just that. Politicians of the populist flavor do have some very romantic notions about manual labor.Of course, manual labor is for the great unwashed masses. The deserving ones - the leaders - get to stay on top and benefit from all modern things. I believe it's called a feudal system.
Tl;dr: As long as he is not the one breaking his back tilling the soil, he is all for it.
Or the guys in the front of the coffin.
No Truth Patriot?
The US founders are frequently called "patriots" rather than "nationalists", despite the fact that they created a nation state. They enshrined racism in the constitution of the country they created. Should they be called "nationalists" instead?
The 1848 liberal revolutions by nationalists across Europe were not about "getting in line, shutting up, and doing what Dear Leader tells you"- they were open rebellions against leaders of empires. The people who led these rebellions are quite commonly considered patriots in their respective countries today, yet their cause was nationalism.
I don't understand why this Hawley guy thinks "Cosmopolitan" is such a pejorative.
Because he can't come right out and say 'the Jews' ?
I'm an ABD in Soviet History myself, but it was watching a documentary about WWII and the camps got seriously interested in history. I have my own struggle against what people "know" about the Russians.
I was maybe 8 or 9, dad had fell asleep one afternoon in front of the TV and this was on. I saw a photo of a handprint in an oven wall and asked myself "How could people do that?" Shirer's "Rise and Fall" was the first serious history I read, in HS.
My favorite on the topic has proved Childers' "The Nazi Voter: The Social Foundation of Fascism" which outlined the electoral appeals they used. They pushed anti-communism (a renewed GOP offering now) and kept the anti-semitism subdued; the lumpen base needed it, but not the respectable middle class voters they needed. The industrial working class, in their KPD/SPD affiliated unions, never bought.
And so I'll throw Niemoller's almost poetic lament about the passivity of the opposition in the mix whenever I can. "First, they came for the communists. But I was not a communist, so I did nothing." It was they, other leftists, and select rightist opponents who first experienced "protective custody" at Dachau.
As the SPD and the KPD both had paramilitaries which fought the SA in the streets, armed resistance was possible. Armed rebellion by organized leftists, I don't think Second Amendment Remedy advocates really wanna talk that up. They elected to stand down, in view of the Wehrmacht's support for the Nazis. They and other rightist paramilitaries figured in their Order of Battle, as reserves. The one on the down low, in violation of Versailles, like the sub, airplane, and tank programs.
When we installed the junta in Kiev, I boned up on collaboration there with "Nazi Empire-Building and the Holocaust in Ukraine." I'm wondering what you might think about the Banderaist adjacent Pravyi Sektor and similar militias.
You can’t say you love America unless you hate at least half of America’s inhabitants is what this Jesus-botherer is preaching, huh?
I would enjoy a lesbian farmer lifestyle, but my mother has some property that she inherited from my father's family, so I've got my plot of land (at least until she sells it), but I do wonder about all the people living in New York City. Where will all those people raise their vegetables?
The other issue I have is what will we do when China decides to overrun the USA's peasant farmers. Will we somehow maintain a very sophisticated military, while we all go back to farming? As you can tell, I have a lot of questions.
People who have never done manual labor do have a very romantic view of it.
Sounds like another closeted, self-loathing gay man, trying to MAGA the gay away.
He (along with a lot of Democratic politicians, frankly) also doesn’t understand that “rural” and “die-hard Republican” are not necessarily a one-to-one proportion. And that most people are actually talking about exurbs when they say “rural.” If I lived surrounded by ugly strip-malls with a bleak, concrete-as-far-as-the-eye-can-see, 2-hour commute to the equally bleak office park every day instead of in an *actually* rural area where the nearest Walmart requires a passport to get to, I’d be hard pressed not to turn into the kind of grasping consumerist rage-ball Walker thinks is “rural,” too.
Not for lack of trying. Both political parties in my state are ready to turn my whole region into the Land Of Ten Thousand Tailings Ponds right now. Dems are promising to make appropriately sad noises when the dams fail, though.
Really it’s who loses that’s the most important. Somebody has to lose to make it fun for them. It doesn’t even matter if they’re not really “winning” as long as they can make someone lose.
It’s freaking me out how little you’d have to tweak that Hawley speech to sound like a Bernie-or-Bust type* talking about the DNC.
*obligatory: Before anybody flips their shit, I caucused for Bernie, so #notallBerniesupporters, I KNOW. If you don’t fit the description, I’m not talking about you.
Congratulations, you took History 102 and can correctly identify the origins of modern nationalism.
I'll also note that this development lead pretty directly to a century and a half of warfare and empire building.
The nationalist revolutions of the 19th centuries laid the groundwork for the kind of vicious white supremacy masquerading as nationalism we see in Standartenführer Hawley's Blut und Boden speech.
The genocide and ethnic cleansing of Serbia in the 90's is a clear consequence of this "nationalism".
"Our Country" nationalism is far different from Hawley's "Our Culture and Religion" nationalism.