- Generally, I default to siding with First People over colonizing governments. But I also generally default to science over superstition. The moon is an entire other world. We can't hold back progress forever because of old religious beliefs. If we're ever going to have colonies on other worlds, eventually we'll have cemeteries on those worlds.
- I agree with Robyn that there are problems here at home and it would be amazing if we could solve them or at least throw a little money at them. But here's an idea: let's not demonize NASA with its shoestring budget. They're doing absolutely heroic work pushing the scientific frontier forward with thirty cents and a pat on the head. How about instead, we buy one less aircraft carrier and put that money into social programs? I've been sick of hearing people blame homelessness on the space program for forty years.
The Dine´ are not the only First Nations tribe to have a sacred relationship with our satellite. My late friend Bruce was living in Guatemala when we landed to walk on the moon. He was watching the news on a TV in a store window, accompanied by a coterie of Lacadon and asked them what they thought of it. They shook their heads and laughed and insisted it could not be real, because the moon is the sacred white gardenia, and no one would dare walk on the sacred white gardenia.
Can we get back to the subject of cremation? Since my cheapskate spouse refuses to get me a space where they toss you in a biodegradable box and plant a tree over you, I guess I’m gonna have to burn. But it grinds my soul to have it done with fossil fuels. I read that they’ve got solar powered crematoriums in India...why not here? Total death ray with mirrors, like those trinkety Radio Shack solar cig lighters, only BIG.
As an atheist I don't see the point of sending from grains of someone's ashes to the moon, or anywhere else. I also don't see what the Navajo believe about the Moon. I do believe in science so I'm sorry that the many instruments and projects being carried by Peregrine never made it there,
While I respect Navajo beliefs, as I do most sincere spiritual belief, I do not think those beliefs should control other people's behavior. This is especially so since the Navajos could continue to believe in the moon's symbolism even if the rocket had made it there. It's belief, not fact.
Remember when Lonnie sent a Tesla into space kinda aimed at Mars?
Lots of concern about contaminating Mars with Earth bacteria and whatnot.
Guess the moon is less likely to grow monstrous creatures or to have its own early life forms be modified.
I can't figure out why anyone wants their ashes and DNA going touring after they are dead. I did a lot of travelling before I got married. At least that gave me memories, postcards, prints and slides.
The moon is already litter with trash from the original Apollo missions. Dirty dipers (they had no toliets there) food wrapped. etc. As well as footprints in the virgin soil.
Every successful lunar mission, every successful effort to move beyond our planet, is critical to the future of human survival. It is the kind of thing that we spend relatively little on in comparison to other programs, and should not fall victim to funding whataboutism. Raise taxes on the wealthy. Transfer some of our ridiculous levels of military spending over. It is a shame that we have outsourced our space program to the kind of rich nutbags that will turn our future into Aliens rather than a Star Trek.
“ Every successful lunar mission, every successful effort to move beyond our planet, is critical to the future of human survival”
Well, indirectly yes.
But the idea that we are going to set up shop on another planet is hubris. If we can’t even stabilize our own planet’s collapsing ecosystems from the harm that we have caused it, how are we going to create a livable planet from scratch? I would think that creating a sustainable livable earth would be the technological precursor to creating an environment from zero on a completely hostile planet. if you can’t even fix a broken bicycle, how are you going to build a bullet train? stemming and reversing the effects of global warming would be the test run for even attempting that project on a planet that we didn’t spend 350 million years growing up on
Even failed experiments in terraformation could lead to advances in science necessary to stabilize our home planet, or more realistically at this point mitigate the damage already caused to it.
Also, creating an environment from zero shouldn't be the goal but rather creating sustainable living conditions from a position of like 30-50% at the beginning. Regardless, and unpopular opinion, survival of the species doesn't necessarily require perfect conditions nor does it require a sustainable strategy. Ideally, we would not yield the next frontier in human progress to candidates for upper-class twit of the year.
In more positive lunar news, Japan is now the fifth country to successfully land in the Moon. The other four being USA, USSR, China, and India. And yes that’s the Soviet Union, not Russia because Russia has yet to successfully land on the moon since the breakup of the Soviet Union.
So, I think launching the ashes of dead rich people into space is a frivolous use of resources. On the other hand and with due respect to the Navajo, they don’t fucking own the Moon. If we do build a permanent lunar base, sooner or later, someone is going to die there. It’s going to be way more economical to bury them there than to ship the body back to Earth. What are they going to do then?
"unless there is something on the moon that is going to get people healthcare, housing and food (and we know it’s not made of cheese), I truly do not care and I think it’s weird to spend money on it."
Counterpoint: Octavia Butler, _Parable of the Sower_
"Space could be our future," I say. I believe that. As far as I'm concerned, space exploration and colonization are among the few things left over from the last century that can help us more than they hurt us. It's hard to get anyone to see that, though, when there's so much suffering going on just outside our walls....
We are Earthseed. We are flesh—self aware, questing, problem-solving flesh. We are that aspect of Earthlife best able to shape God knowingly. We are Earthlife maturing. Earthlife preparing to fall away from the parent world. We are Earthlife preparing to take root in new ground, Earthlife fulfilling its purpose, its promise, its Destiny. "
Unless we are just smoking rubble by before then. Not too unlikely! The planet shall rejoice and set about to healing from the damage inflicted by the standing monkeys.
I know I'm a few days late, but I have opinions.
- Generally, I default to siding with First People over colonizing governments. But I also generally default to science over superstition. The moon is an entire other world. We can't hold back progress forever because of old religious beliefs. If we're ever going to have colonies on other worlds, eventually we'll have cemeteries on those worlds.
- I agree with Robyn that there are problems here at home and it would be amazing if we could solve them or at least throw a little money at them. But here's an idea: let's not demonize NASA with its shoestring budget. They're doing absolutely heroic work pushing the scientific frontier forward with thirty cents and a pat on the head. How about instead, we buy one less aircraft carrier and put that money into social programs? I've been sick of hearing people blame homelessness on the space program for forty years.
I think there's already DNA on the moon. Didn't the astronauts leave their poop behind?
The Dine´ are not the only First Nations tribe to have a sacred relationship with our satellite. My late friend Bruce was living in Guatemala when we landed to walk on the moon. He was watching the news on a TV in a store window, accompanied by a coterie of Lacadon and asked them what they thought of it. They shook their heads and laughed and insisted it could not be real, because the moon is the sacred white gardenia, and no one would dare walk on the sacred white gardenia.
Can we get back to the subject of cremation? Since my cheapskate spouse refuses to get me a space where they toss you in a biodegradable box and plant a tree over you, I guess I’m gonna have to burn. But it grinds my soul to have it done with fossil fuels. I read that they’ve got solar powered crematoriums in India...why not here? Total death ray with mirrors, like those trinkety Radio Shack solar cig lighters, only BIG.
And then there's also Body Farms. I wrote about a movie that featured them...
https://www.metroactive.com/movies/To-Dust.html
Obligatory:
https://youtu.be/vnGNXoNX0Ag?si=RfzPfLTrzNpE8c0B
Look into water cremation. They don't burn you up, they just kinda dissolve you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cremation
My preferred method would be to sling my carcass out in the bush and let Nature do its thing. But I understand why that's frowned upon.
Now if we could just ship some of the live rich right-wingers towards the moon that would serve a purpose.
My though about burying people on the moon has always been "Sure, why not? You first......."
As an atheist I don't see the point of sending from grains of someone's ashes to the moon, or anywhere else. I also don't see what the Navajo believe about the Moon. I do believe in science so I'm sorry that the many instruments and projects being carried by Peregrine never made it there,
Also, if we are literally ‘the stuff of stars’ a post Mortem trip to the moon seems both redundant and anticlimatic.
While I respect Navajo beliefs, as I do most sincere spiritual belief, I do not think those beliefs should control other people's behavior. This is especially so since the Navajos could continue to believe in the moon's symbolism even if the rocket had made it there. It's belief, not fact.
Sure. Let's start sending trash to the moon. Littering just shows we've been there.
Remember when Lonnie sent a Tesla into space kinda aimed at Mars?
Lots of concern about contaminating Mars with Earth bacteria and whatnot.
Guess the moon is less likely to grow monstrous creatures or to have its own early life forms be modified.
I can't figure out why anyone wants their ashes and DNA going touring after they are dead. I did a lot of travelling before I got married. At least that gave me memories, postcards, prints and slides.
The moon is already litter with trash from the original Apollo missions. Dirty dipers (they had no toliets there) food wrapped. etc. As well as footprints in the virgin soil.
Should have scrolled down
First they left diapers and I said nothing….
So for now, the ashes of planetary geologist Eugene Shoemaker continue to rest in peace alone on the Moon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjp_DfvJimg
𝗠𝗔𝗨𝗦𝗢𝗟𝗘𝗨𝗠, 𝙣. The final and funniest folly of the rich.
--Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Not any more.
Every successful lunar mission, every successful effort to move beyond our planet, is critical to the future of human survival. It is the kind of thing that we spend relatively little on in comparison to other programs, and should not fall victim to funding whataboutism. Raise taxes on the wealthy. Transfer some of our ridiculous levels of military spending over. It is a shame that we have outsourced our space program to the kind of rich nutbags that will turn our future into Aliens rather than a Star Trek.
“ Every successful lunar mission, every successful effort to move beyond our planet, is critical to the future of human survival”
Well, indirectly yes.
But the idea that we are going to set up shop on another planet is hubris. If we can’t even stabilize our own planet’s collapsing ecosystems from the harm that we have caused it, how are we going to create a livable planet from scratch? I would think that creating a sustainable livable earth would be the technological precursor to creating an environment from zero on a completely hostile planet. if you can’t even fix a broken bicycle, how are you going to build a bullet train? stemming and reversing the effects of global warming would be the test run for even attempting that project on a planet that we didn’t spend 350 million years growing up on
Even failed experiments in terraformation could lead to advances in science necessary to stabilize our home planet, or more realistically at this point mitigate the damage already caused to it.
Also, creating an environment from zero shouldn't be the goal but rather creating sustainable living conditions from a position of like 30-50% at the beginning. Regardless, and unpopular opinion, survival of the species doesn't necessarily require perfect conditions nor does it require a sustainable strategy. Ideally, we would not yield the next frontier in human progress to candidates for upper-class twit of the year.
"Ideally, we would not yield the next frontier in human progress to candidates for upper-class twit of the year."
And ultimately that's the greatest obstacle to success.
Waste of good money, time and energy.
So all the cremains burned up in the atmosphere? So now we gotta breathe in all those molecules?
In more positive lunar news, Japan is now the fifth country to successfully land in the Moon. The other four being USA, USSR, China, and India. And yes that’s the Soviet Union, not Russia because Russia has yet to successfully land on the moon since the breakup of the Soviet Union.
https://www.iflscience.com/japan-becomes-fifth-country-to-land-on-the-moon-successfully-72541
It's petty. I'll allow it. ;-)
Snicker
So, I think launching the ashes of dead rich people into space is a frivolous use of resources. On the other hand and with due respect to the Navajo, they don’t fucking own the Moon. If we do build a permanent lunar base, sooner or later, someone is going to die there. It’s going to be way more economical to bury them there than to ship the body back to Earth. What are they going to do then?
I think we will all be blown up by then. So, no biggie.
Something something something lunatics.
"unless there is something on the moon that is going to get people healthcare, housing and food (and we know it’s not made of cheese), I truly do not care and I think it’s weird to spend money on it."
Counterpoint: Octavia Butler, _Parable of the Sower_
"Space could be our future," I say. I believe that. As far as I'm concerned, space exploration and colonization are among the few things left over from the last century that can help us more than they hurt us. It's hard to get anyone to see that, though, when there's so much suffering going on just outside our walls....
We are Earthseed. We are flesh—self aware, questing, problem-solving flesh. We are that aspect of Earthlife best able to shape God knowingly. We are Earthlife maturing. Earthlife preparing to fall away from the parent world. We are Earthlife preparing to take root in new ground, Earthlife fulfilling its purpose, its promise, its Destiny. "
Unless we are just smoking rubble by before then. Not too unlikely! The planet shall rejoice and set about to healing from the damage inflicted by the standing monkeys.
“The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” by Robert Heinlein, where the moon is a penal colony that grows and exports food back to Earth.
... and they have a revolution, right? I see no drawbacks, I'm in favor of revolutions