Hey don't get down on yourself, getting Blues Traveler stuck in your head isn't a sin. After all, the hook brings you back. I ain't telling you no lies.
I led an early life immersed in the leaden peculiarities and oddities of religion, and viewed a number of people who had tied their happiness as well as those who had tied their victimization to religion. I found, and still find, the approaches these misfits employed were ridiculous and mind-numbing. You may say people are happy as Christians, but the truth is they are living in a fool's paradise here on Earth in exchange for the promise of a heavenly paradise which will, in all likelihood, never be realized. I am all for their practicing whatever false art they choose. Simply do not cram it down others' throats.
There is actual research on this. You can subdivide religious people (but much of the research is on Christians) into a variety of groups that deal with life in remarkably different ways. One way (probably too simple, still) is to divide them into the "healthy minded" and the "suffering sinner", which represent two possible extremes. Ironically, the "healthy minded" seems to be the group that tends to ignore suffering, have little introspection, and turns much of their life over for God to deal with. They do O.K. when things are great (I wonder if these tend to me more well-to-do white people) but they don't do well with actual problems (health, finances, social ostracism, etc.). The "suffering sinner" is very aware of their problems and take responsibility for them. Some may take sole responsibility for finding a solution, some may try to include God's intervention in finding a solution. These people are more introspective (sometimes probably too much). They don't use religion as a crutch at all. They are not at all like the ones you describe above (which I think are clearly the "healthy minded").
The research is interesting for those who like the puzzle of spiritual/psychological/medical interactions. Probably tedious to (and well avoided by) those who are not.
I think most people do have dysfunction, and we are all prone to mental problems. However, I think religious people, as a rule, are fearful of the unknown and want someone outside of themselves to create an environment in which all the emotional valleys will be mitigated. They use religion as a crutch, not as an adaptive method to promote mental health. Without dealing with the issues which vex them, but turning to a solution outside of themselves, they never engage in a full confrontation of the problems and devise remedies of their own. Solutions are extraneous to them and begot by a supreme puzzle solver.
Married to a guy like that, she'd have to take her jollies wherever she can. There's a reason why those dudes want 72 virgins after they croak, and no experienced courtesans.
Of course this is when the biblical god -- who bears a suspicious resemblance to the Hellenic deities in this part of the Bible -- makes a vanity-inspired wager with the Adversary concerning how much awful shit Job can take without losing his faith. The reader knows at the end that Job's suffering has no larger meaning beyond the tendency of anthropomorphic gods to "kill us for their sport" -- but Job doesn't. He finally demands an explanation and his god responds by strutting around and boasting, a la Dolt45 and the fictitious Ozymandias, about his power and accomplishments. "I'm allowing this because I can" is what his response boils down to.
I have no idea why believers are so gaga over this book.
With all due respect, no one on this planet knows "what it will be like when you die." Even people who have near-death experiences: that near part is the essential one.
I love people enough and care enough," Graham said, "to warn them that if they chose to continue to live in sin, God is going to judge them one day and they'll be separated from him for eternity in hell."
Oh get real Frankie. People you despise suffering in hell is probably one of your top ten sweaty-hand fantasies.
I was not trying to convert others with my post. Just like I don's assume that those who disagree with me are always trying to convert me. I'm sure we would both be pleased if those we disagreed with suddenly decided that our view was right, but this does not happen much. We can hope, however, that those we disagree with will honestly consider our points and try to find common ground in doing good in the world.
Progressives have friends in Christianity. In fighting against those who use religion to do evil, we risk alienating those whose religion does good. I am no fan of Franklin or any other of the talking head Christians in media, and I am happy when their perversion of the Christian message exposes them to ridicule and correction. But I do not want my fellow Christians who are working for the betterment of our citizens and our culture to be judged guilty by association. There are many types of Christians. Don't reflexively lump us all together.
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Hey don't get down on yourself, getting Blues Traveler stuck in your head isn't a sin. After all, the hook brings you back. I ain't telling you no lies.
Pretty sure no *sane* jury would disagree with Mr. cavity...
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Better that I should burn in the lake of fire for all Eternity than be forced to share it in Heaven with the shitgibbon.
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I led an early life immersed in the leaden peculiarities and oddities of religion, and viewed a number of people who had tied their happiness as well as those who had tied their victimization to religion. I found, and still find, the approaches these misfits employed were ridiculous and mind-numbing. You may say people are happy as Christians, but the truth is they are living in a fool's paradise here on Earth in exchange for the promise of a heavenly paradise which will, in all likelihood, never be realized. I am all for their practicing whatever false art they choose. Simply do not cram it down others' throats.
There is actual research on this. You can subdivide religious people (but much of the research is on Christians) into a variety of groups that deal with life in remarkably different ways. One way (probably too simple, still) is to divide them into the "healthy minded" and the "suffering sinner", which represent two possible extremes. Ironically, the "healthy minded" seems to be the group that tends to ignore suffering, have little introspection, and turns much of their life over for God to deal with. They do O.K. when things are great (I wonder if these tend to me more well-to-do white people) but they don't do well with actual problems (health, finances, social ostracism, etc.). The "suffering sinner" is very aware of their problems and take responsibility for them. Some may take sole responsibility for finding a solution, some may try to include God's intervention in finding a solution. These people are more introspective (sometimes probably too much). They don't use religion as a crutch at all. They are not at all like the ones you describe above (which I think are clearly the "healthy minded").
The research is interesting for those who like the puzzle of spiritual/psychological/medical interactions. Probably tedious to (and well avoided by) those who are not.
I think most people do have dysfunction, and we are all prone to mental problems. However, I think religious people, as a rule, are fearful of the unknown and want someone outside of themselves to create an environment in which all the emotional valleys will be mitigated. They use religion as a crutch, not as an adaptive method to promote mental health. Without dealing with the issues which vex them, but turning to a solution outside of themselves, they never engage in a full confrontation of the problems and devise remedies of their own. Solutions are extraneous to them and begot by a supreme puzzle solver.
Married to a guy like that, she'd have to take her jollies wherever she can. There's a reason why those dudes want 72 virgins after they croak, and no experienced courtesans.
Of course this is when the biblical god -- who bears a suspicious resemblance to the Hellenic deities in this part of the Bible -- makes a vanity-inspired wager with the Adversary concerning how much awful shit Job can take without losing his faith. The reader knows at the end that Job's suffering has no larger meaning beyond the tendency of anthropomorphic gods to "kill us for their sport" -- but Job doesn't. He finally demands an explanation and his god responds by strutting around and boasting, a la Dolt45 and the fictitious Ozymandias, about his power and accomplishments. "I'm allowing this because I can" is what his response boils down to.
I have no idea why believers are so gaga over this book.
With all due respect, no one on this planet knows "what it will be like when you die." Even people who have near-death experiences: that near part is the essential one.
There's nothing new about the arguments; I've been hearing them on religious radio and TV since the late 1970s.
I love people enough and care enough," Graham said, "to warn them that if they chose to continue to live in sin, God is going to judge them one day and they'll be separated from him for eternity in hell."
Oh get real Frankie. People you despise suffering in hell is probably one of your top ten sweaty-hand fantasies.
Sorry!!!
I was not trying to convert others with my post. Just like I don's assume that those who disagree with me are always trying to convert me. I'm sure we would both be pleased if those we disagreed with suddenly decided that our view was right, but this does not happen much. We can hope, however, that those we disagree with will honestly consider our points and try to find common ground in doing good in the world.
Progressives have friends in Christianity. In fighting against those who use religion to do evil, we risk alienating those whose religion does good. I am no fan of Franklin or any other of the talking head Christians in media, and I am happy when their perversion of the Christian message exposes them to ridicule and correction. But I do not want my fellow Christians who are working for the betterment of our citizens and our culture to be judged guilty by association. There are many types of Christians. Don't reflexively lump us all together.
Inspired guess?