I like the idea that judges continue to be appointed by the governor but every two years they have to re-elected. That would eliminate egregiously bad judges. No one should get a life-time appointment without SOME review.
Things will only get worse, but, then, of course, they'll get better. For a while. Then, they'll get worse in slightly more disgusting ways, but things will perk up all of a sudden, usually during the Spring and early-Summer months, and then something more awful will happen and you'll find yourself shaking your head in astonishment. After which time, the blood rain will start and you and your progeny will be well-and-truly fucked and the signs are cloudy from that point on.
But one verity remains, as the fog rolls in - you will never get that jet-pack you were promised and you will die bitter...
Given how terribly a lot of people maintain and pilot their cars that travel only 2-dimensionally right now, I am not looking forward to the day when you have to worry about cars on their last legs falling out of the sky or drivers seeking sky highway shortcuts by buzzing right over my rooftop. And this doesn’t even get into potential terrorism events where cars are purposefully aimed at buildings from the sky, either with suicidal humans behind the wheel or being hacked into remotely and crashing them with horrified occupants inside. No thank you.
so, basically what you're saying is, flying cars are the only things that are going to make the next couple decades interesting as we actually have to learn to avoid actual flying cars falling from the sky to keep our peripheral vision and proprioception skills sharp? because i'm down for that and everything else seems boring.
Good for you, Jen! I've wanted one for so long now I've about given up, but, dammit, they promised it to us, and it's just so hard to let go of that feeling that it might be possible to get it if you just whine about it enough for, like, decades...
According to more recent medical analysis, probably a stroke. The infant was born prematurely, weighed only 3 pounds, had a history of breathing problems, a blood disorder, and an enlarged head.
That's what I'm thinking too. I suppose it could be argued that Robyn went a little too much into the details of this baby shaking phenomenon. But the only thing that matters is that he was found innocent, and is still being held in prison. None of the details are of any weight here, an innocent man is being held in prison
Hmmmmm a judge ... doing exactly whatever the hell he feels like reason be damned ... I was told by the non commenting lawyers here that such a thing is unpossible.
I am a longtime supporter and reader of Wonkette. I am also a pediatric intensive care physician.
I find that Robyn Penacchia has written a lot of good columns about subjects such as abortion rights. However, I have been increasingly dismayed by her repeated columns on the topic that "shaken baby syndrome is bullshit." I have taken care of many shaken/abusive head trauma babies, many of whom died and most of the survivors had permanent neurological damage. The fact is that, in the pediatrics community (including pediatricians as well as pediatric subspecialist such as pediatric neurosurgeons), there is a group that claims that shaken baby syndrome does not exist, but they are very much on the fringe along with the anti-vaxxers and anti-conversion therapy types. Robyn could have determined this with minimal googling if she was willing to step outside the sources that reaffirm her opinion. I suggest she and Wonkette readers start with "Consensus statement on abusive head trauma in infants in young children" found at https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29796797/ (free access is allowed by clicking on the "White Rose Research Online" tab on the right of the page). This is a consensus statement by an international group of pediatricians and pediatric radiologists that has been endorsed by multiple pediatric medicine-based organizations including the American Academy of Pediatrics, which is the mainstream pediatrics professional organization in the US (there is an American College of Pediatrics that is run by the anti-vaxxer, pro-corporal punishment types). This paper is dense but I think readable by non-medical people. It does include a lot of delving into child abuse, so be forewarned. Following this paper I will refer to "abusive head trauma" instead of "shaken baby syndrome."
I have avoided making comments on these columns before on the principle of not getting into arguments on the internet. However, after reading Robyn's latest piece today, "Nashville Judge Decides To Keep Man In Prison Because Too Many People Think He's Innocent," I have hit my limit. She has now personally attacked my friends and colleagues in the established pediatric subspecialty of Child Abuse Pediatrics, which Robyn describes as "self appointed 'child-abuse' experts. She also takes a swipe at "ICU doctors or regular pediatricians," as they apparently don't "actually know what they are talking about." This sent me through the roof, as a pediatric ICU doctor, who has, I repeat, taken care of many (I don't even know how many at this point) patients with abusive head trauma. Everyone in pediatrics has taken care of these children. We. See. Them. All. The. Time.
I am going to try to be fair here. I know Robyn is passionate about miscarriages of justice, and good for her for covering this area. But abusive head trauma is not some questionable forensic science like bite marks. It is not made up by villainous district attorneys. It is a medical diagnosis with huge and hugely bad implications for children. I can't speak to what happens in the court system as I am not a lawyer. I wish Robyn would have had the same caution when talking about medicine.
I would like Robyn to know what it is like to manage a baby with abusive head trauma, as a pediatric ICU (PICU) doctor. These babies have decreased level of consciousness and often seizures. If they go long enough without medical care they have inadequate and then no breathing. If we can intubate them at this point we can keep them from proceeding to cardiac arrest, but they often end up requiring CPR, often prolonged. So we have a baby with major brain injury and often severe seizures that are difficult to control. If there was prolonged CPR there will often be dysfunction of other organ syndromes. Sometimes neurosurgeons can intervene but usually there is no surgical option. Patients with shaking related injuries make up 45% of deaths related to child abuse. They die from severe brain injury, uncontrollable seizures, or multiorgan failure, even with the ICU team performing every intervention we can think of. I have to explain the severity of this to the family, and tell them when the child is dying (we treat the family like we treat any other family; decisions on whether family members are allowed to see their child are made by child protective services and law enforcement). If these babies survive, they often have severe neurological injuries and depend on technologies like tracheostomies and feeding tubes to live. These children haunt me, and they haunt everybody who works in the PICU.
Robyn repeatedly implies that no one ever considered other causes for the head bleeds in this child, or presumably any child with abusive head trauma. This is absolute bullshit. The standard of care for the diagnostic workup for children presenting with head bleeds included screening for bleeding disorders or other potential causes of bleeding, thorough review of the medical and family history, complete head to toe exam, X-ray of all the bones to look for fractures, and thorough imaging of the brain and in some cases the spine. We work closely with the Child Abuse Pediatricians for this workup.
I will deal with some of Robyn's statements in detail. First of all, the "self-appointed 'child abuse'" expert, which I presume refers to Dr. Suzanne Starling who was mentioned in Robyn's previous article. Dr. Starling is board certified in Child Abuse Pediatrics (I checked) which is an established pediatric subspecialty. To be board certified, you have to have completed a specialized fellowship after pediatric residency, passed a subspecialty board exam, and continue to meet requirements established by the American Board of Pediatrics. The American Board of Pediatrics provides certification for all pediatricians and subspecialty pediatricians in the US, so in fact Dr. Starling is in fact a child abuse expert, unless you are questioning the knowledge of every pediatrician in the country. You can find more information at https://www.healthychildren.org/English/family-life/health-management/pediatric-specialists/Pages/What-is-a-Child-Abuse-Pediatrician.aspx.
The consensus statement I referenced above addresses the greatest hits of the anti-shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma crowd, including some of Robyn's statements, so I will not address all of them. A few key points:
-the question of biomechanics is a big topic, but I would emphasize that there is NOT a good animal model for shaking in human babies because human babies have much bigger heads in relationship to their bodies than any other species.
-The fact is that it is rare for babies to show up with an unprovoked brain bleed. Even patients with genetic bleeding disorders like hemophilia rarely bleed in their heads. Premature babies (as in this case) are at risk for bleeding in their brain early in their life due to immaturity of blood vessels in the brain, but by the time they are big enough to discharge home they are not at any higher risk to bleed than non-premature babies.
I really enjoy Wonkette as a refuge of sanity and like-minded people in this current dumpster-fire landscape. But I am really struggling with supporting people spreading medical misinformation. I hope that this can be educational for Robyn and the readers. I know full well that doctors are not infallible and there are plenty of issues with the American legal system, but there is not some cabal of pediatricians making these cases up (why? who knows?) in cahoots with the local courts.
Adding a correction because I don't know how to edit a posted comment. When I described the fringe including anti-vaxxer and anti-conversion therapy types, I meant PRO-conversion therapy.
Not all malpractice is intentional. Not all doctors are equal. Someone has to come in last of their class, and they practice just as much medicine as everyone else. And everyone has to justify their job.
Child Abuse Pediatric doctors are trained to look for abuse. You want to protect children so you look diligently for signs of abuse and find it whenever you believe you can, to protect the children. Which is absolutely admirable when you are correct.
What ends up happening, instead, is that hammers only see nails all around them. You justify your specialty by taking children from their parents when they are living and testifying in court against them when the children are dead, and you get it wrong. It's verifiable that your specialty gets it wrong. Every specialty gets it wrong sometimes, but in your case you are punishing grieving parents, locking them in jail for the rest of their lives or causing them to have to live without their children, which in my humble opinion is a fate far worse than death. We don't even have a word in the English language for a parent who outlives their child.
I am not qualified to state whether shaken baby syndrome exists, whether AHT exists, or SIDS, or anything else, but I do know several friends who had first-time babies and one of their fears was something happening to the child and it being taken from them or them ending up in jail from accusations. That's not really something loving parents should have to be afraid of.
The red flag for me is that you can't even count the number of children you personally have witnessed that have been shaken to the point of death, requiring intubation or worse. You discount the role that Child Abuse Pediatrics plays in child protective services and courts determine whether to remove children and/or arrest parents. And you discount the obvious regret that Guthkelch had for the role that his attempts to clarify and help had in imprisoning parents.
More than anything, you discount the fact that in this particular case that Robyn brings, the most modern interpretation is that the father did nothing wrong and the injuries were not trauma inflicted, and yet this man still rots in jail. And instead of using your expertise to try and help, you post here in an attempt to justify your specialty.
"Why? Who knows?" you ask. Because, as I said, everyone has to justify their job. Best wishes to you and my hopes that you can be perfect in all of your assessments of child abuse so that more innocent parents aren't ripped from their children or placed in jail based on an otherwise inexplicable collection of symptoms.
EDIT TO ADD: Also, you equate anti-Shaken Baby Syndrome people with anti-vaccination and anti-conversion therapy people.
"...they are very much on the fringe along with the anti-vaxxers and anti-conversion therapy types."
Are you seriously saying that it's fringe to be opposed to conversion therapy? Because if so, holy crap on a mighty big stick.
Excellent points. I ask below how accidental trauma can be differentiated from intentional abuse and there has been no response. Yes, it is horrible if someone intentionally abuses an infant, but even worse would be charging a parent with murder if it were indeed an accident. Even if it can be shown that the parent was somehow negligent. Seems there would be levels of charges just as there are in the death of an adult. Involuntary manslaughter as opposed to first degree murder for instance,. In the absence of actual witnesses to the abuse I would be reluctant to vote guilty simply upon the basis of a post mortem exam.
But parents who kill their children through abuse seldom meant to kill the child. They were drunk, they were angry, they just wanted the kid to stop crying... and the child is dead at the hand of the person who is supposed to be it's protection.
You can't accidentally beat your child to death if you never beat your child. Even though abusers usually don't actually mean to kill the child, it's not an accident the way, say, tripping and falling down the stairs is.
If it happened while intoxicated, it would almost always be involuntary manslaughter in any other case, which RRJKR did mention. In other cases, it would have to be premeditated to merit the absolute worst sentences.
There are cases where parents do horrible things to children and they should absolutely be held accountable for that, but alternately in situations where it is incredibly clear that the parents did literally everything right for their child and they still died they should not be sentenced to rotting in prison. Parents should not be afraid of seeking help for their child because they are afraid of having them taken away for whatever reason.
Thank you for the added clarity. In our criminal "injustice" system it isn't unheard of to find overzealous prosecutors who will try to turn accidents into intentional acts. " Did you really trip and fall while carrying the baby down the steps or were you angry and threw it down?"
My question would be, can the same or very similar injuries be the result of accidental trauma as opposed to intentional abuse, and how do you differentiate?
That is persuasive. We know babies get shaken, so we would expect some injuries in the worst instances. Therefore, the syndrome-doesn't-exist position seems improbable.
We'd have to know the details of who the experts were. But it remains that if he was found innocent in a court of law, he should know longer be in prison. We can't portion guilt to him without knowing more details
And Tennessee takes the lead in the "stupidest, cruelest" state justice system. Don't judges like this guy have to face recall elections every so often? If so, his cannot come quickly enough. Then again, the voters of Tennessee don't have a very good record themselves, they'll probably re-elect him
Yeah, I guess it isn't just their justice system. The latest bullshit about arming teachers really demonstrates the legislators' inability to comprehend reality -and simple human dignity. ( They underpay their teachers as it is - 42nd in the nation, average salary $13000 under the national average - and they expect teacher's to be armed cops as well )
I'm not a biomechanical engineer, but I know enough to know that retinal hemorrhaging due to trauma is going to have included severe, and I'll state that again, SEVERE g forces. Like, high speed car accident, getting punched right in the eyeball, or ejecting from a jet aircraft at significant speed.
Any of those things would like have killed an infant immediately and caused multiple broken bones and extensive soft tissue injuries.
Or it's a symptom of any one of several serious disorders or syndromes.
But a judge is supposed to understand that they don't know and that's why experts are involved.
It's just that people were either too polite, clinging to "norms" -- and the SCOTUS #Fascist6 has shown us what we should think of those -- or too afraid of being blackmailed by his father's or Vladimir's KKK or mafia thugs to be willing to say anything
#Fascist6. That's good. Back when Scalia was still eating and shitting, I used to refer to "Fat Tony and the Mackerel Snapper Five". Kinda like a punk band.
I like the idea that judges continue to be appointed by the governor but every two years they have to re-elected. That would eliminate egregiously bad judges. No one should get a life-time appointment without SOME review.
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....p.
Things will only get worse, but, then, of course, they'll get better. For a while. Then, they'll get worse in slightly more disgusting ways, but things will perk up all of a sudden, usually during the Spring and early-Summer months, and then something more awful will happen and you'll find yourself shaking your head in astonishment. After which time, the blood rain will start and you and your progeny will be well-and-truly fucked and the signs are cloudy from that point on.
But one verity remains, as the fog rolls in - you will never get that jet-pack you were promised and you will die bitter...
Still no flying cars, either.
Given how terribly a lot of people maintain and pilot their cars that travel only 2-dimensionally right now, I am not looking forward to the day when you have to worry about cars on their last legs falling out of the sky or drivers seeking sky highway shortcuts by buzzing right over my rooftop. And this doesn’t even get into potential terrorism events where cars are purposefully aimed at buildings from the sky, either with suicidal humans behind the wheel or being hacked into remotely and crashing them with horrified occupants inside. No thank you.
so, basically what you're saying is, flying cars are the only things that are going to make the next couple decades interesting as we actually have to learn to avoid actual flying cars falling from the sky to keep our peripheral vision and proprioception skills sharp? because i'm down for that and everything else seems boring.
I never wanted a jet pack, so I'll be all right on that score.
Good for you, Jen! I've wanted one for so long now I've about given up, but, dammit, they promised it to us, and it's just so hard to let go of that feeling that it might be possible to get it if you just whine about it enough for, like, decades...
And that's the way it is, April 27, 2024.</unclewalter>
Holy freaking mind fuck, Batman🤯
The United States of America is teetering on the edge of a precipice. How will the Supreme Court rule?
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-supreme-court-warrant/
I just cannot with that.
What then caused the injuries to and death of this child?
What shrill said.
These babies are dying of medical ailments and the knee jerk But the Babies! crowd is hanging innocent people for it.
According to more recent medical analysis, probably a stroke. The infant was born prematurely, weighed only 3 pounds, had a history of breathing problems, a blood disorder, and an enlarged head.
I have to wonder what the evidence was that exonerated him
This article gives more information on that point.
https://nashvillebanner.com/2024/03/19/russell-maze-innocence-shaken-baby-syndrome/
Thanks!
Thanks that article helped a ton!
How about "the evidence used to convict him was a pile of completely made up bullshit"?
That's what I'm thinking too. I suppose it could be argued that Robyn went a little too much into the details of this baby shaking phenomenon. But the only thing that matters is that he was found innocent, and is still being held in prison. None of the details are of any weight here, an innocent man is being held in prison
And has already served 25 years. At least the governor could commute the sentence. How many *proven* murderers actually spend 25 years?
Hmmmmm a judge ... doing exactly whatever the hell he feels like reason be damned ... I was told by the non commenting lawyers here that such a thing is unpossible.
Tennessee. Gee, man, I don’t know.
I am a longtime supporter and reader of Wonkette. I am also a pediatric intensive care physician.
I find that Robyn Penacchia has written a lot of good columns about subjects such as abortion rights. However, I have been increasingly dismayed by her repeated columns on the topic that "shaken baby syndrome is bullshit." I have taken care of many shaken/abusive head trauma babies, many of whom died and most of the survivors had permanent neurological damage. The fact is that, in the pediatrics community (including pediatricians as well as pediatric subspecialist such as pediatric neurosurgeons), there is a group that claims that shaken baby syndrome does not exist, but they are very much on the fringe along with the anti-vaxxers and anti-conversion therapy types. Robyn could have determined this with minimal googling if she was willing to step outside the sources that reaffirm her opinion. I suggest she and Wonkette readers start with "Consensus statement on abusive head trauma in infants in young children" found at https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29796797/ (free access is allowed by clicking on the "White Rose Research Online" tab on the right of the page). This is a consensus statement by an international group of pediatricians and pediatric radiologists that has been endorsed by multiple pediatric medicine-based organizations including the American Academy of Pediatrics, which is the mainstream pediatrics professional organization in the US (there is an American College of Pediatrics that is run by the anti-vaxxer, pro-corporal punishment types). This paper is dense but I think readable by non-medical people. It does include a lot of delving into child abuse, so be forewarned. Following this paper I will refer to "abusive head trauma" instead of "shaken baby syndrome."
I have avoided making comments on these columns before on the principle of not getting into arguments on the internet. However, after reading Robyn's latest piece today, "Nashville Judge Decides To Keep Man In Prison Because Too Many People Think He's Innocent," I have hit my limit. She has now personally attacked my friends and colleagues in the established pediatric subspecialty of Child Abuse Pediatrics, which Robyn describes as "self appointed 'child-abuse' experts. She also takes a swipe at "ICU doctors or regular pediatricians," as they apparently don't "actually know what they are talking about." This sent me through the roof, as a pediatric ICU doctor, who has, I repeat, taken care of many (I don't even know how many at this point) patients with abusive head trauma. Everyone in pediatrics has taken care of these children. We. See. Them. All. The. Time.
I am going to try to be fair here. I know Robyn is passionate about miscarriages of justice, and good for her for covering this area. But abusive head trauma is not some questionable forensic science like bite marks. It is not made up by villainous district attorneys. It is a medical diagnosis with huge and hugely bad implications for children. I can't speak to what happens in the court system as I am not a lawyer. I wish Robyn would have had the same caution when talking about medicine.
I would like Robyn to know what it is like to manage a baby with abusive head trauma, as a pediatric ICU (PICU) doctor. These babies have decreased level of consciousness and often seizures. If they go long enough without medical care they have inadequate and then no breathing. If we can intubate them at this point we can keep them from proceeding to cardiac arrest, but they often end up requiring CPR, often prolonged. So we have a baby with major brain injury and often severe seizures that are difficult to control. If there was prolonged CPR there will often be dysfunction of other organ syndromes. Sometimes neurosurgeons can intervene but usually there is no surgical option. Patients with shaking related injuries make up 45% of deaths related to child abuse. They die from severe brain injury, uncontrollable seizures, or multiorgan failure, even with the ICU team performing every intervention we can think of. I have to explain the severity of this to the family, and tell them when the child is dying (we treat the family like we treat any other family; decisions on whether family members are allowed to see their child are made by child protective services and law enforcement). If these babies survive, they often have severe neurological injuries and depend on technologies like tracheostomies and feeding tubes to live. These children haunt me, and they haunt everybody who works in the PICU.
Robyn repeatedly implies that no one ever considered other causes for the head bleeds in this child, or presumably any child with abusive head trauma. This is absolute bullshit. The standard of care for the diagnostic workup for children presenting with head bleeds included screening for bleeding disorders or other potential causes of bleeding, thorough review of the medical and family history, complete head to toe exam, X-ray of all the bones to look for fractures, and thorough imaging of the brain and in some cases the spine. We work closely with the Child Abuse Pediatricians for this workup.
I will deal with some of Robyn's statements in detail. First of all, the "self-appointed 'child abuse'" expert, which I presume refers to Dr. Suzanne Starling who was mentioned in Robyn's previous article. Dr. Starling is board certified in Child Abuse Pediatrics (I checked) which is an established pediatric subspecialty. To be board certified, you have to have completed a specialized fellowship after pediatric residency, passed a subspecialty board exam, and continue to meet requirements established by the American Board of Pediatrics. The American Board of Pediatrics provides certification for all pediatricians and subspecialty pediatricians in the US, so in fact Dr. Starling is in fact a child abuse expert, unless you are questioning the knowledge of every pediatrician in the country. You can find more information at https://www.healthychildren.org/English/family-life/health-management/pediatric-specialists/Pages/What-is-a-Child-Abuse-Pediatrician.aspx.
The consensus statement I referenced above addresses the greatest hits of the anti-shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma crowd, including some of Robyn's statements, so I will not address all of them. A few key points:
-the question of biomechanics is a big topic, but I would emphasize that there is NOT a good animal model for shaking in human babies because human babies have much bigger heads in relationship to their bodies than any other species.
-The fact is that it is rare for babies to show up with an unprovoked brain bleed. Even patients with genetic bleeding disorders like hemophilia rarely bleed in their heads. Premature babies (as in this case) are at risk for bleeding in their brain early in their life due to immaturity of blood vessels in the brain, but by the time they are big enough to discharge home they are not at any higher risk to bleed than non-premature babies.
I really enjoy Wonkette as a refuge of sanity and like-minded people in this current dumpster-fire landscape. But I am really struggling with supporting people spreading medical misinformation. I hope that this can be educational for Robyn and the readers. I know full well that doctors are not infallible and there are plenty of issues with the American legal system, but there is not some cabal of pediatricians making these cases up (why? who knows?) in cahoots with the local courts.
I appreciate your posting this, thanks.
Adding a correction because I don't know how to edit a posted comment. When I described the fringe including anti-vaxxer and anti-conversion therapy types, I meant PRO-conversion therapy.
(Three little dots to the lower right of your comment, Doc!)
Not all malpractice is intentional. Not all doctors are equal. Someone has to come in last of their class, and they practice just as much medicine as everyone else. And everyone has to justify their job.
Child Abuse Pediatric doctors are trained to look for abuse. You want to protect children so you look diligently for signs of abuse and find it whenever you believe you can, to protect the children. Which is absolutely admirable when you are correct.
What ends up happening, instead, is that hammers only see nails all around them. You justify your specialty by taking children from their parents when they are living and testifying in court against them when the children are dead, and you get it wrong. It's verifiable that your specialty gets it wrong. Every specialty gets it wrong sometimes, but in your case you are punishing grieving parents, locking them in jail for the rest of their lives or causing them to have to live without their children, which in my humble opinion is a fate far worse than death. We don't even have a word in the English language for a parent who outlives their child.
I am not qualified to state whether shaken baby syndrome exists, whether AHT exists, or SIDS, or anything else, but I do know several friends who had first-time babies and one of their fears was something happening to the child and it being taken from them or them ending up in jail from accusations. That's not really something loving parents should have to be afraid of.
The red flag for me is that you can't even count the number of children you personally have witnessed that have been shaken to the point of death, requiring intubation or worse. You discount the role that Child Abuse Pediatrics plays in child protective services and courts determine whether to remove children and/or arrest parents. And you discount the obvious regret that Guthkelch had for the role that his attempts to clarify and help had in imprisoning parents.
Every action needs a reaction and thankfully there are people like Dr. Al-Agba who can step in and assist families who are scared, grieving, and overwhelmed with medical technical terms and procedures and help get some of them reunited. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/child-abuse-or-medical-problem-wa-doctor-pushes-back-on-questionable-cases/
More than anything, you discount the fact that in this particular case that Robyn brings, the most modern interpretation is that the father did nothing wrong and the injuries were not trauma inflicted, and yet this man still rots in jail. And instead of using your expertise to try and help, you post here in an attempt to justify your specialty.
"Why? Who knows?" you ask. Because, as I said, everyone has to justify their job. Best wishes to you and my hopes that you can be perfect in all of your assessments of child abuse so that more innocent parents aren't ripped from their children or placed in jail based on an otherwise inexplicable collection of symptoms.
EDIT TO ADD: Also, you equate anti-Shaken Baby Syndrome people with anti-vaccination and anti-conversion therapy people.
"...they are very much on the fringe along with the anti-vaxxers and anti-conversion therapy types."
Are you seriously saying that it's fringe to be opposed to conversion therapy? Because if so, holy crap on a mighty big stick.
Excellent points. I ask below how accidental trauma can be differentiated from intentional abuse and there has been no response. Yes, it is horrible if someone intentionally abuses an infant, but even worse would be charging a parent with murder if it were indeed an accident. Even if it can be shown that the parent was somehow negligent. Seems there would be levels of charges just as there are in the death of an adult. Involuntary manslaughter as opposed to first degree murder for instance,. In the absence of actual witnesses to the abuse I would be reluctant to vote guilty simply upon the basis of a post mortem exam.
But parents who kill their children through abuse seldom meant to kill the child. They were drunk, they were angry, they just wanted the kid to stop crying... and the child is dead at the hand of the person who is supposed to be it's protection.
You can't accidentally beat your child to death if you never beat your child. Even though abusers usually don't actually mean to kill the child, it's not an accident the way, say, tripping and falling down the stairs is.
If it happened while intoxicated, it would almost always be involuntary manslaughter in any other case, which RRJKR did mention. In other cases, it would have to be premeditated to merit the absolute worst sentences.
There are cases where parents do horrible things to children and they should absolutely be held accountable for that, but alternately in situations where it is incredibly clear that the parents did literally everything right for their child and they still died they should not be sentenced to rotting in prison. Parents should not be afraid of seeking help for their child because they are afraid of having them taken away for whatever reason.
Thank you for the added clarity. In our criminal "injustice" system it isn't unheard of to find overzealous prosecutors who will try to turn accidents into intentional acts. " Did you really trip and fall while carrying the baby down the steps or were you angry and threw it down?"
My question would be, can the same or very similar injuries be the result of accidental trauma as opposed to intentional abuse, and how do you differentiate?
That is persuasive. We know babies get shaken, so we would expect some injuries in the worst instances. Therefore, the syndrome-doesn't-exist position seems improbable.
We'd have to know the details of who the experts were. But it remains that if he was found innocent in a court of law, he should know longer be in prison. We can't portion guilt to him without knowing more details
Thank you for that very thorough rebuttal.
Yeah, I had to retract an earlier comment I made. A lot here to look into. I'll do that over the weekend
Indeed.
And Tennessee takes the lead in the "stupidest, cruelest" state justice system. Don't judges like this guy have to face recall elections every so often? If so, his cannot come quickly enough. Then again, the voters of Tennessee don't have a very good record themselves, they'll probably re-elect him
Have you seen anything their legislature has done recently? It's MAGABAT
Yeah, I guess it isn't just their justice system. The latest bullshit about arming teachers really demonstrates the legislators' inability to comprehend reality -and simple human dignity. ( They underpay their teachers as it is - 42nd in the nation, average salary $13000 under the national average - and they expect teacher's to be armed cops as well )
I laugh at the idea of arming teachers. Mainly because, as a teacher myself, I can see so many off-label applications in the classroom.
Hewing to Confederate identity makes people deeply stupid
I'm not a biomechanical engineer, but I know enough to know that retinal hemorrhaging due to trauma is going to have included severe, and I'll state that again, SEVERE g forces. Like, high speed car accident, getting punched right in the eyeball, or ejecting from a jet aircraft at significant speed.
Any of those things would like have killed an infant immediately and caused multiple broken bones and extensive soft tissue injuries.
Or it's a symptom of any one of several serious disorders or syndromes.
But a judge is supposed to understand that they don't know and that's why experts are involved.
What mixes well with whiskey that isn't stimulating? I don't want to be awake anymore. Besides more whiskey. Or ice.
I've got like nothing. I guess it's over ice with a splash of cola.
Hot tea? It's called a Hot Toddy, which combines tea, lemon, honey and whiskey.
https://www.theglenlivet.com/en-us/articles/whisky-and-tea/
https://www.thrillist.com/culture/hot-tea-with-alcohol-6-amazing-tea-and-cocktail-pairings
I've already powered through my want to sleep phase, and I am in full-blown drink until pass out dead phase, but thank you!
I also really need to try this:
https://www.rachelcooks.com/hot-white-russian/
These days, a hot white Russian is someone between the ages of 15 and 75 who can run faster than the conscription crews.
Lemonade
Vicodin
I wish. Near-as-allergic to that class. Also, never poly-pharm over 40. All of your favorite dead celebrities only went a little too far....
Indica is my go to.
Oh, that reminds me. Aren’t there still mass school pedophiles in NC prisons based on testimony of 3- and 4-year olds under hypnosis?
From your fingertips to Justice's scales. Thank you, Robyn.
OT: LOL! As if Stinky would dare debate any live human.
𝗧𝗿𝘂𝗺𝗽 𝗥𝗲𝘀𝗽𝗼𝗻𝗱𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝗕𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻 𝗗𝗲𝗯𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗣𝗹𝗲𝗱𝗴𝗲 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗦𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗲𝘀 𝗼𝗳 𝗣𝘂𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗹𝗲 𝗜𝗻𝘀𝘂𝗹𝘁𝘀
https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/just-in-trump-responds-to-biden-debate-pledge-with-series-of-puerile-insults/
Dark Brandon seems to know exactly how to push all of Trump's buttons without ever seeming nasty.
I like.
Joe is a pro. Turmp is a petulant 5th-grader.
That's just so pathetic and sad. Have that last guy with a Trump flag still there walk him in front of a bus.
You know, since there are no ice floes anymore.
Spongebrain Shitpants just can't help himself.
"Puerile" is all he's got left.
I feel like it's all he ever had
It's just that people were either too polite, clinging to "norms" -- and the SCOTUS #Fascist6 has shown us what we should think of those -- or too afraid of being blackmailed by his father's or Vladimir's KKK or mafia thugs to be willing to say anything
#Fascist6. That's good. Back when Scalia was still eating and shitting, I used to refer to "Fat Tony and the Mackerel Snapper Five". Kinda like a punk band.
*nods*
Also quite catchy
It's almost 99 44/100% pure puerile.
That WOULD be a good name for a dish soap.
That's way better than SpongeBob SquarePants.
Well, not anytime anywhere. I hear you're in court four fucking days a week <snort>
Five, counting gag order hearings
Dark Brandon: Will you shut up, man?
With one share of DJT stock.
Ooo!
This is all an argument against states rights (TM).
Whether something is about states rights or not is a matter of expediency, not principle.